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Old 01-07-2019, 11:02 AM   #1
HalcyonDays
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Default LeBaron Bonney Co.

Back in August a few people voiced concerns about the future of LeBaron Bonney Company has anyone had any recent dealings with the company?
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Old 01-07-2019, 11:34 AM   #2
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Default Re: LeBaron Bonney Co.

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Back in August a few people voiced concerns about the future of LeBaron Bonney Company has anyone had any recent dealings with the company?

Yep.
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Old 01-07-2019, 01:02 PM   #3
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Default Re: LeBaron Bonney Co.

https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showthread.php?t=248819
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Old 01-07-2019, 02:52 PM   #4
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Default Re: LeBaron Bonney Co.

What a shame.My dad would deal with LeBarron Bonney in the sixties and sometimes Lee Atherton himself would be on the phone. My mom always kidded dad when he would get a call or a package from "Bonney". I dealt with them 11-12 years ago last time and it was a good catalog and good products and communications,this was for an early V8 Ford. Luckily all I need on the Model A for now is the panel that covers seat back springs in rumble seat compartment. Catalog online is very confusing to me with Hampton Coach Chevy products intertwined.
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Old 01-07-2019, 04:14 PM   #5
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Default Re: LeBaron Bonney Co.

I used to love dealing with LB. New management not so much. After the last snafu I will go elsewhere next time.
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Old 01-07-2019, 04:27 PM   #6
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Default Re: LeBaron Bonney Co.

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Sounds like some one doesn't mind losing a heap of money. Why do people buy a company, then run it into the ground? Incompetence? Stupid? What?
I've dealt with LB and thought they were a good mob to work with. I don't think I'd bother trying them now.
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Old 01-07-2019, 04:42 PM   #7
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Default Re: LeBaron Bonney Co.

What alternatives are there?
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Old 01-07-2019, 04:53 PM   #8
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Default Re: LeBaron Bonney Co.

I have sold two very successful businesses over the last 25 years. In each case the new owners ran them into the ground within a couple of years. New owners think they have a better idea of how things should be done than the old owners. Especially, if the previous owner is older!

95 percent of businesses are sold under duress. Look at Mac’s. Whether you liked them or not, they have changed since being sold. For the better?
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Old 01-07-2019, 05:02 PM   #9
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Default Re: LeBaron Bonney Co.

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What alternatives are there?

Classtique not to be confused with Cartouche.
https://www.classtiqueupholstery.com/


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Old 01-07-2019, 05:05 PM   #10
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Default Re: LeBaron Bonney Co.

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Yep.

And...?
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Old 01-07-2019, 05:06 PM   #11
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Default Re: LeBaron Bonney Co.

Classic or Classtique ???? from Wisconsin or Minnesota, I've heard a lot of good things about them and they were a little cheaper the L-B. I answer to the question of why companies get sold and then they are "Run into the ground". There're a lot of reasons. Paying hard money for something as ephemeral as "good Will" which can evaporate with one or two wrong words. Start up costs (Rent, taxes)were a lot less than now so the original owner had less of a "Nut" to make.The owner's specialized knowledge of vendors, suppliers,etc, developed over the years may not be passed along. This may be critical to the business' survival. Imagine if you were suddenly the owner of say, Brattons or any of our vendors. The inventory alone would be daunting. Then, The new owner's just may not be serious about the business, Actually running the business may be far different than it appeared before the transaction. There are more and different reasons, I just listed a few.
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What alternatives are there?
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Old 01-07-2019, 07:42 PM   #12
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Default Re: LeBaron Bonney Co.

I ran a successful business for 25 years during which time I was fortunate to have assembled a loyal and talented staff. When I announced my retirement the owners decided to sell the business. The new owners were clueless and treated the employees so poorly that many soon quit. That business went belly up within two years.
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Old 01-07-2019, 07:45 PM   #13
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Default Re: LeBaron Bonney Co.

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Classtique not to be confused with Cartouche.
https://www.classtiqueupholstery.com/


Bob
Bob is right. Tom Wesenberg in the Minneapolis area has said in the past, that Model A owners he knew bought interiors from Classtique and were very pleased with fit, finish, AND customer assistance.

They look like the ones to check out.

https://www.classtiqueupholstery.com/
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Old 01-07-2019, 08:16 PM   #14
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Default Re: LeBaron Bonney Co.

My initial order for a '29 Special Coupe interior was placed Feb, 2018. With almost weekly phone/email conversation, the kit arrived in August. Material in the kit was back-ordered from the supplier, and when finally received the dye (material color) did not meet LB specs, which caused supply delays.
I did stick with the original order, which eventually did arrive, was installed (after cutting and fitment adjustments), and all turned out well.
IMO.. another "experience" in Model A ownership, I'm sure we all have a few.!! kb
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Old 01-07-2019, 09:01 PM   #15
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Default Re: LeBaron Bonney Co.

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What alternatives are there?
Call Mike at https://www.classtiqueupholstery.com/
He does beautiful work and meets his time estimates.


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Old 01-07-2019, 11:37 PM   #16
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Default Re: LeBaron Bonney Co.

I got a complete kit for a 30Fordor .I got a lady that had done several cars to lnstall it. She made many phone calls to the Co as she had to add material to get it to fit when doing the seats.about three months later we found out that the seat springs that a big supplier sold me were too high and I had to wire down the springs For some reason All these repo parts don,t fit .There was nothing wrong with the kit it was very good .Allso bought a new rad and the spout is 3/8” too high . I manufacture a few things and If it is not better than the original one I won’t sell it .
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Old 01-08-2019, 01:01 PM   #17
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Default Re: LeBaron Bonney Co.

I did check with Mike at Classtique, unfortunately they do not do the Convertible Sedan...
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Old 01-08-2019, 02:27 PM   #18
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Default Re: LeBaron Bonney Co.

Just sad to hear an excellent supplier has become way less than excellent. I purchased and installed a LeBaron Bonney kit in my coupe in 2002. It still looks like the day it was installed.....
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Old 01-08-2019, 11:51 PM   #19
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Default Re: LeBaron Bonney Co.

I was just getting ready to order the interior kit for my '31 CCPU indented firewall project. Any suggestions where else I can get a quality kit? Has any one purchased anything from LeBaron Bonney during this transition??
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Old 01-09-2019, 11:03 AM   #20
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Default Re: LeBaron Bonney Co.

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I was just getting ready to order the interior kit for my '31 CCPU indented firewall project. Any suggestions where else I can get a quality kit? Has any one purchased anything from LeBaron Bonney during this transition??
Bought a coupe 12 years ago that came with a Cartouche kit (Mac's- Ecklers now) that was OK but the door padding was too thick. The window cranks rubbed on the Mohair. Similar materials to Le Baron Bonney. See the Classtique videos on their website. I did order some carpet pieces from LeBaron (2016) before some long time employees including Wendy P. departed because their material was a close match. They messed up one piece but re-did it fairly quickly.
The CCPU kit may be OK because there are not too many interior pieces involved like a large sedan ??

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Old 01-09-2019, 11:52 AM   #21
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Default Re: LeBaron Bonney Co.

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Sounds like some one doesn't mind losing a heap of money. Why do people buy a company, then run it into the ground? Incompetence? Stupid? What?

In the early to the mid seventies, major companies were scouring the SEMA show looking for companies to buy in the high performance industry. Very simply, these hot rod equipment companies were very profitable. The prevailing thinking by the corporations was that if some guy with a high school education could make this kind of money making exhaust headers, think how much more money you could make with MBA's running the outfit.


While major corporations brought business knowledge and lots of capitol to the table, they lacked the knowledge of their customers and the passion of the founder and therefore failed. There were more than a few guys that bought their businesses back for pennies on the dollar.
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Old 01-09-2019, 01:52 PM   #22
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Default Re: LeBaron Bonney Co.

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Why do people buy a company, then run it into the ground? Incompetence? Stupid? What?
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While major corporations brought business knowledge and lots of capitol to the table, they lacked the knowledge of their customers and the passion of the founder and therefore failed. There were more than a few guys that bought their businesses back for pennies on the dollar.


There is some truth in this however there is often another side in this from what I hear in seminars, --that while it is unethical and illegal, it happens WAY too often in business sales in that the books are 'cooked' to represent an inflated P&L.


While many will be quick to say that this is fraud and rarely done, nothing could be further from the truth regarding the 'rarely done' part from what my banker and CPA tell me. Sometimes it can be found beforehand thru a full-audit however someone who is shrewd with the books can make this virtually undetectable until well after the sale has been consummated. Even when it has been discovered, an undercapitalized company generally does not have the funding to contest this in court. I would be interested to hear what Bill Underwood says in his experience with this type thing.
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Old 01-09-2019, 04:11 PM   #23
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Default Re: LeBaron Bonney Co.

If you have the right attorney and account. Do your due diligence. You should know what your buying.

With a small ma and pa business there is probably more likelihood of a potential problem.

With a multi million dollar business. It’s one of the responsibilities of your advisers to make sure the numbers are correct. “Cooked Books”.

You must know what you are buying. “Buyer Beware”.

Everyone selling a business is not misrepresenting what they are selling. Like anything else, antique cars as an example, the buyer has to do there homework.

Good people sell good businesses. Age, health, no one to take it over. There are many sound reasons businesses are sold.

I would think there are as many problems with buyers. Bankers that I know make sure to check both the buyer and seller. Can the buyer run the business, and are they getting what their paying for.

In my view. If your paying for a accountant and attorney. I hope both are understanding of businesses. Not divorces, and simple tax returns.
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Old 01-10-2019, 05:00 AM   #24
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Default Re: LeBaron Bonney Co.

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Originally Posted by BRENT in 10-uh-C View Post
There is some truth in this however there is often another side in this from what I hear in seminars, --that while it is unethical and illegal, it happens WAY too often in business sales in that the books are 'cooked' to represent an inflated P&L.


While many will be quick to say that this is fraud and rarely done, nothing could be further from the truth regarding the 'rarely done' part from what my banker and CPA tell me. Sometimes it can be found beforehand thru a full-audit however someone who is shrewd with the books can make this virtually undetectable until well after the sale has been consummated. Even when it has been discovered, an undercapitalized company generally does not have the funding to contest this in court. I would be interested to hear what Bill Underwood says in his experience with this type thing.
It happens lots -When I was buying my practice I learned very quickly not to believe the figures I was given. Turn over looks great if you are banking your own checks . I always used to just ask for the appointment book -Interestingly some guys were seeing 5 patients a day and putting through enough cash to have seen 60. You do get the other situation where the owners have a profitable business which they siphon cash out of into their back pocket. All good until Uncle Sam catches them or they try to sell their business (sometimes both at the same time) The books, of course, look dreadful and they wonder why they can't sell -Karl
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Old 01-10-2019, 10:35 AM   #25
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Default Re: LeBaron Bonney Co.

I don't know what happened to LB. I do know I quit dealing with Mac's because the new employees there knew nothing about a Model A and were simply there to write down part numbers.
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Old 01-10-2019, 02:40 PM   #26
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I don't know what happened to LB. I do know I quit dealing with Mac's because the new employees there knew nothing about a Model A and were simply there to write down part numbers.


Sometimes it is best to deal with a smaller parts vendor that has good personal knowledge of the Model-A products they sell. Bert's Model-A is a great example and they are reasonably close to your side of the country.
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Old 01-11-2019, 11:31 AM   #27
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It happens lots ................. I learned very quickly not to believe the figures I was given. Turn over looks great if you are banking your own checks . -Karl
Kind of on a similar note, watch the Netflix one hour special 'All The Queens Horses' about Rita Crundwell, the City of Dixon, Illinois employee who stole just shy of $53 million from the city coffers. Dixon isn't very far from us we go thru there a lot.

Among other things, Dixon thru Rita had hired an accounting firm to create ledgers, the firm gave the books to Rita, she turned them back over to be 'audited', and sure enough they were found to be in order That firm was also named in the lawsuit for many millions of dollars.

Good show, the FBI and US Marshall's office talks about how much of these kinds of things go on all over, every year. Lots of thieves out there.
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Old 01-11-2019, 02:51 PM   #28
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Default Re: LeBaron Bonney Co.

Hey Jeff/Illinois, isn't it sad that so many people today have lost their moral compass. Maybe it's always been that way and I'm just kidding myself. It gets disheartening to always have to worry about being conned and often whoever is doing the conning is doing it with impunity.......
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Old 01-11-2019, 04:33 PM   #29
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Hey Jeff/Illinois, isn't it sad that so many people today have lost their moral compass. Maybe it's always been that way and I'm just kidding myself. It gets disheartening to always have to worry about being conned and often whoever is doing the conning is doing it with impunity.......
Exactly the times are sure different than when we grew up
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Old 01-11-2019, 10:19 PM   #30
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Default Re: LeBaron Bonney Co.

I would second this and suggest everyone shopping for Model A and Model T parts wherever you are contact Sammy Guthrie of Arizona Model A (480)782-0266 because his service is second to none.
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Old 01-12-2019, 12:35 AM   #31
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I would second this and suggest everyone shopping for Model A and Model T parts wherever you are contact Sammy Guthrie of Arizona Model A (480)782-0266 because his service is second to none.
Ditto.
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Old 01-13-2019, 03:03 PM   #32
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Default Re: LeBaron Bonney Co.

Classtique appears to be a viable alternative for the Model A hobbyists and while I may have missed it on their website, it appears that they have no offering after the '31s. That's a big hole from a V8 era point of view.
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Old 01-15-2019, 01:08 AM   #33
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Default Re: LeBaron Bonney Co.

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Sometimes it is best to deal with a smaller parts vendor that has good personal knowledge of the Model-A products they sell. Bert's Model-A is a great example and they are reasonably close to your side of the country.
I couldn't agree more, been dealing with them for years, and learned a lot from them, but I haven't purchased anything from them since...... Tuesday?
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