Right era, wrong type of transportation

[KGS]

Originally Posted by Hoop

(Incidentally, few people are aware that the Spitfire had the landing gear handle on the right side of the cockpit. Who in the hell would do that to an otherwise near perfect airplane?)

Grumman F4F manually retracted/extended by turning the landing gear handle located on the right side of the cockpit (30 turns each way). A friend of mine flew one off the USS Essex during WWII. He said that it was always fun to watch a "newbie" on his first take-off trying to crank the handle and fly at the same time. He owned a '39 CV identical to mine at the time.
Ken

[Graeme / New Zealand]

Originally Posted by Karl

I feel the B24 certainly lacks the looks of the 17 but was by far the more versatile of the two which is why they made more B24s than any other bomber during the war. The B17 bomb load was also considerably less than the B24's. However the B17 was certainly a fortress knocking down 23 fighters per 1000 sorties way ahead of any thing else including escort fighters ! -Karl

Avro Lancaster for me.

GB

[Graeme / New Zealand]

Originally Posted by Hoop

Karl, I have the greatest respect for the bomber crews of WW2 ... and have to admit that would have been my last choice of assignments.

The subject of scoring air victories is one that remains a huge debate. "Overcrediting" is responsible for much of the misinformation about actual losses.

"However the B17 was certainly a fortress knocking down 23 fighters per 1000 sorties way ahead of any thing else including escort fighters !"

Army Air Forces Statistical Digest. WWII shows victories, in the ETO, 6,098 by heavy bombers, 7,422 by fighters, and 103 by medium bombers. And, I wouldn't bet on any of that. As far as facts, yours are as good as any.

Here's an example you might appreciate:

"? April 1944***United States Army Air Forces vs RAF***An unusual incident involving friendly fire occurred during the Burma campaign when the crew of a US B-25 fired at two approaching aircraft and later claimed to have shot down two Japanese fighters. The fighters were RAF Spitfires, one of which was piloted by New Zealand ace Alan Peart who was recorded by a ground radio unit saying, "Keep clear. The bastards are shooting at us." Both Spitfires returned safely to base, without damage.[35]"

Usually the estimates of claimed victories vs actual start at 2:1 and 3:1 ... to extremes beyond that.

It's the "fog of war." BUT, no doubt about the bravery, skill, etc., etc., of the men who flew them. Very special guys.

(Incidentally, few people are aware that the Spitfire had the landing gear handle on the right side of the cockpit. Who in the hell would do that to an otherwise near perfect airplane?)

Love it Hoop!.. your quote is exactly the typical vernacular a Kiwi pilot would use in the situation.

GB

[rosenkranswa]

My dad flew P-47s. Have his logbooks and notebooks which are wonderful to look through, especially the notebooks. Stuff you don't usually see, like which officers liked saluted which ways (snap, slow, pause, etc), Dad was nothing if not methodical. One of his best stories was "jumping" a pair of Navy planes from the nearby Naval Airstation, which happened frequently. Nothing could out dive a Jug, but these two stood on their tails and went straight up. Turned out they were brand new F-7F Tigercats being worked up with two engines like the one the Thunderbolt had in about the same size airframe.

I've ridden in a B-17, B-24, B-25 and BT-13 - all wonderful experiences trying to imagine the feelings of the young men flying them into harms way. For pure sexiness though, it's tough to beat the B-17.

One of his sayings I always remembered when I was flying was, "Attain and Retain airspeed and altitude never trading one for the other."

[Bubsyouruncle]

Never run out of airspeed, altitude, and ideas at the same time.

[Drbrown]

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Had three grand uncles. Came from a tough German family. Their father was an Artillery Officer in the German Army during WW1, landed in a Russian Prison Camp, escaped and was critically wounded. Germany awarded him the Iron Cross but he hated them and refused it. WW2 .... his sons (my great uncles) were all born in Germany and immigrated with parents in 1923. One flew off the USS Saratoga. His brother was Army AF, sent to France to teach the French how to fly. And the third brother started as an MP, transferred to paratroops, and earned a Purple Heart fighting in the Philippines. They all survived.

[mfirth]

You guys should come to Port Clinton Ohio's Liberty Aviation Museum. There you can fly war birds, a,Ford Trimotor etc. Google it & see their website. Awesome !!! Check it out!
mike

[Stretch Cab]

I work part time for a WWII veteran as his caregiver. I asked him on Saturday what he did when he heard the war was over. He was an air traffic controller working out of Casablanca. Without missing a beat he said he climbed up on top of the roof with a bottle of champagne and celebrated. We just attended his friend Stan’s memorial. Stan flew Corsairs. I am privileged to know these heroes.

[Karl]

Originally Posted by Hoop

Karl, I have the greatest respect for the bomber crews of WW2 ... and have to admit that would have been my last choice of assignments.

The subject of scoring air victories is one that remains a huge debate. "Overcrediting" is responsible for much of the misinformation about actual losses.

"However the B17 was certainly a fortress knocking down 23 fighters per 1000 sorties way ahead of any thing else including escort fighters !"

Army Air Forces Statistical Digest. WWII shows victories, in the ETO, 6,098 by heavy bombers, 7,422 by fighters, and 103 by medium bombers. And, I wouldn't bet on any of that. As far as facts, yours are as good as any.

Here's an example you might appreciate:

"? April 1944***United States Army Air Forces vs RAF***An unusual incident involving friendly fire occurred during the Burma campaign when the crew of a US B-25 fired at two approaching aircraft and later claimed to have shot down two Japanese fighters. The fighters were RAF Spitfires, one of which was piloted by New Zealand ace Alan Peart who was recorded by a ground radio unit saying, "Keep clear. The bastards are shooting at us." Both Spitfires returned safely to base, without damage.[35]"

Usually the estimates of claimed victories vs actual start at 2:1 and 3:1 ... to extremes beyond that.

It's the "fog of war." BUT, no doubt about the bravery, skill, etc., etc., of the men who flew them. Very special guys.

(Incidentally, few people are aware that the Spitfire had the landing gear handle on the right side of the cockpit. Who in the hell would do that to an otherwise near perfect airplane?)

Sounds like a New Zealander ! You a right in my mind the Spitfire is near perfect . One of my friends flys a Mark 9 that was restored locally and lives 10 minutes drive from were I live . Shaun loves it ! Interestingly apart for the engine the most expensive part is the prop -the blades are only made in Germany !

On the early models you had to pump the under carriage up and you could tell a new pilot as the aircraft bounced up and down as the joystick hand moved in time with the pumping hand.

The P-51D (Mustang here ) was also a fantastic plane .

Karl

[robert dick]

the guy in the next hanger where i worked owned a P51 Mustang -took me up a couple of times--what a rush--seemed like a rocket ship compared to the F4-U's we flew

[HOTRODPRIMER]

My dad was in the army air corp and was a left blister gunner,the plane he was on went down and he was the only survivor. HRP

[TonyM]

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[fourfords]

My Uncle flew his 25 B-17 missions over Europe. I think because I asked him so many questions when I was a kid, he gave me his wings instead of his own son! He was very upset he was loosing so many friends early in the campaign with then, no fighter escort. He painted a vivid picture of the horrors. He had a stellar career as a High School Principal and a father of a great family. I am still deeply proud of him.

[TonyM]

I was a qualified crew chief on this Douglas C-47 for several years.

[Zephyr Q]

Thanks for the photos and discussion. I've always been fascinated by the B-24, mostly because my Grand Uncle (that's a thing right? My grandfather's brother.) Piloted and was KIA'd flying one in the Pacific. (His was a B-24D-15 built by Consolidated in San Diego.)