The Ford Barn

Joe Shell · 06-21-2016, 08:51 PM

Hi guys,

Recently replaced the mechanical fuel pump on my 36 Cabriolet and did some damage. This car has a Ford accessory oil filter on it. The return line runs from the filter to a banjo style fitting which is bolted to the fuel pump with a hollow bolt. The oil runs thru the banjo fitting, thru the oil passage in the bolt, and drains back to he crankcase via the breather tube.

While installing the fuel pump, I stripped the female threads on the fuel pump stand. Now I can't tighten the hollow bolt and have a serious leak.

I think I have located a fuel pump stand but I' not sure it will work. The existing damaged fuel pump stand measures approx 3 1/2 inches from the bottom of the base of the casting to the top of the casting. The breather tube sticks out of the casting 1 1/2 inches. The fuel pump stand I have located measures 3 1/8 inches from the bottom of the base to the top of the casting. I was thinking this would not work because my fuel pump push rod would be too long. But maybe it would work if the critical dimension is from the bottom of the base to the centerline of the bolts which secure the fuel pump to the fuel pump stand.

I'm also wondering if I have to modify the replacement fuel pump stand to allow the oil flowing thru the hollow bolt to drain into the crankcase.

Is there any other way to fix this problem. I have heard of helicoils but am not familiar with them.

Any suggestions or ideas are appreciated.

Thanks,

Joe

Lawson Cox · 06-21-2016, 08:55 PM

Not looking at a FP stand, but I do not recall that the hole for the hollow bolt is threaded. Threads go into intake.

tubman · 06-21-2016, 09:04 PM

Another fuel pump stand would be what I would prefer, but if you can't find the right one, a "Helicoil" type repair would work. I may be a little picky here, but for a case like this, I would consider something a little better than a "Helicoil" like a product such as a "Timesert". I have used both types, and I wouldn't consider them beyond the skill level of any but a complete neophyte mechanic. If you decide to go the Helicoil/Insert route, make sure you get the complete kit (inserts, the proper drill bit, and special tap). "Helicoils" are probably available locally, while you would probably have to order in a "Timesert" type repair kit.

Joe Shell · 06-22-2016, 08:29 PM

Thanks Lawson and Tubman for your comments.

Lawson, on my setup the fuel pump stand fits over studs coming up fron manifold. The fuel pump is bolted to the female threads in the stand.

I have secured a replacement fuel pump stand which looks identical to the existing one and the female threads look good. I hope to replace the existing fuel pump stand tomorrow, but one thing bothers me. The hollow bolt now in the system has a hole drilled up the centerline of the shank of the bolt toward the hex head of the bolt. Apparently the oil returning to the crankcase come out of this hole. But this bolt is screwed into the female thread on the fuel pump stand. Any oil coming out of the end of the bolt would be dead ended inside the fuel pump stand with no way that I can see to return to the crankcase.

Do I need to drill a hole in the stand into the female threads to allow th oil to pass thru and drain past te fuel pump lever and down into the crankcase? Am I missing something here?

Thanks,

Joe

JSeery · 06-22-2016, 10:22 PM

There should be a return passage or nothing is going to occur (no oil flow).

Joe Shell · 06-23-2016, 04:29 AM

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Thanks JSeery. I don't see a passage that would allow the oil to escape from inside the female thread cavity of the fuel stand and drain back to the crankcase. I will remove the existing stripped fuel pump stand from the car and see if a hole was drilled for a return passage.

Question: If I install the replacement fuel pump stand without a return passage, there will be no oil flowing thru the fuel filter. Will this affect the lubrication to the rest of the motor?

Thanks,

Joe

Joe Shell · 06-23-2016, 05:39 AM

Meant to say "oil filter" in the next to last sentence above.

At this point I would just like to get the car running without oil leaking at the banjo fitting.

Joe

Terry,OH · 06-23-2016, 05:54 AM

It will not effect the oil flow to the engine or do any damage to the engine. If the return path is blocked it renders the oil filter useless. You may find more small leaks with the blockage. There are a few different styles of the fuel pump adaptor. The 32-33 have a straight back and by 34-36 the back was slightly offset (the style you need) in 37 the adaptor casting material may have changed and become thinner it has a embossed ring around the adaptor just above the fuel pump boss. They usually have a part number embossed into the casting inside the pocket for the fuel pump arm. The part number is small and hard to see especially if there is dirt covering it. Originally the 36 used the AC style of filter (as an accessory) The Fram style was not used by Ford until 1940 (still an accessory) So you could remove the entire filter system and retain originality.

Joe Shell · 06-23-2016, 07:54 AM

Thanks Terry, great info.
The replacement f/p stand a friend gave me yesterday does have an offset in the back with a part number of 48 9416. It looks identical to one on the car now with the stripped thread.

Still don't understand how the oil coming out of the end of the hollow bolt gets into the pocket for the fuel pump lever in order to drain down. When I take the old one off later

Joe Shell · 06-23-2016, 07:59 AM

[QUOTE=Joe Shell;1312902]Thanks Terry, great info.
The replacement f/p stand a friend gave me yesterday does have an offset in the back with a part number of 48 9416. It looks identical to one on the car now with the stripped thread.

Still don't understand how the oil coming out of the end of the hollow bolt gets into the pocket for the fuel pump lever in order to drain down. When I take the old one off later I may find the answere. Perhaps A hole was drilled from inside the f/p lever pocket into the end of the female threads to allow the oil to get out.

Hope to sole this today.

Thanks again,

Joe

Terry,OH · 06-23-2016, 08:12 AM

Ford had a Service letter reminding mechanics to make sure there was a hole for the return oil. I don't believe you want the hole to dump oil into the pocket for the fuel pump arm. I think to return the oil into the oil fill area is the ticket. Sound like you have the correct fuel pump adaptor, IF the adaptor has a small round recess on the bottom for the oil baffle under the adaptor. I would think adding a small bit of Anti-seize to the bolt threads may help in the future.

JSeery · 06-23-2016, 08:43 AM

From an old Bruce Lancaster HAMB post: "Kits for the filter as an accessory came in two flavors...they first sold a special bolt replacing one on fuel pump stand base with passage through and a fitting to adapt the line. This was dropped...flatheads do NOT like anything adding oil into valley, even in small amounts. They moved to a similar setup feeding into front cover at one of those bolts."

This is also my understanding, having the oil return to the valley area (fuel pump stand) leads to other problems (too much oil in the valley area) and oil blowing/misting out of the fuel pump stand breather. This setup was modified to place the return in the timing cover and later directly into the oil pan.

KGS · 06-23-2016, 08:50 AM

[QUOTE=Joe Shell;1312907]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joe Shell

Thanks Terry, great info.
The replacement f/p stand a friend gave me yesterday does have an offset in the back with a part number of 48 9416. It looks identical to one on the car now with the stripped thread.

Still don't understand how the oil coming out of the end of the hollow bolt gets into the pocket for the fuel pump lever in order to drain down. When I take the old one off later I may find the answere. Perhaps A hole was drilled from inside the f/p lever pocket into the end of the female threads to allow the oil to get out.

Hope to sole this today.

Thanks again,

Joe

Are you using the bolt that attaches the pump to the stand, or the bolt that attaches the stand to the manifold? The hollow bolt is used to attach the stand to the manifold which allows the oil to go directly to the valley. Ken

Joe Shell · 06-23-2016, 10:31 AM

Thanks for the info. I'm using the hollow bolt with oli passages to attaché the fuel pump to the stand. There are studs coming up from th manifold and the stand is attached with nuts.

The new stand is identical to the bad one including part number. Think I will just put it back the way it was. Maybe in the future I'll use the bolt to attach stand to mangold.

Thanks
Joe

JSeery · 06-23-2016, 10:49 AM

As Ken stated, the hollow bolt goes directly into the manifold (you remove the stud). There are issues with putting the return oil into the valley area of the block. I would think there would REALLY be issues dumping return oil into the fuel pump attachment area!!!

06-21-2016, 08:51 PM	#1
Joe Shell Member Join Date: Apr 2013 Location: Long Island, NY Posts: 72	Oil filter return line leaking at fuel pump bolt on 36 Hi guys, Recently replaced the mechanical fuel pump on my 36 Cabriolet and did some damage. This car has a Ford accessory oil filter on it. The return line runs from the filter to a banjo style fitting which is bolted to the fuel pump with a hollow bolt. The oil runs thru the banjo fitting, thru the oil passage in the bolt, and drains back to he crankcase via the breather tube. While installing the fuel pump, I stripped the female threads on the fuel pump stand. Now I can't tighten the hollow bolt and have a serious leak. I think I have located a fuel pump stand but I' not sure it will work. The existing damaged fuel pump stand measures approx 3 1/2 inches from the bottom of the base of the casting to the top of the casting. The breather tube sticks out of the casting 1 1/2 inches. The fuel pump stand I have located measures 3 1/8 inches from the bottom of the base to the top of the casting. I was thinking this would not work because my fuel pump push rod would be too long. But maybe it would work if the critical dimension is from the bottom of the base to the centerline of the bolts which secure the fuel pump to the fuel pump stand. I'm also wondering if I have to modify the replacement fuel pump stand to allow the oil flowing thru the hollow bolt to drain into the crankcase. Is there any other way to fix this problem. I have heard of helicoils but am not familiar with them. Any suggestions or ideas are appreciated. Thanks, Joe

06-21-2016, 08:55 PM	#2
Lawson Cox Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Above the gnat line in Georgia Posts: 7,009	Re: Oil filter return line leaking at fuel pump bolt on 36 Not looking at a FP stand, but I do not recall that the hole for the hollow bolt is threaded. Threads go into intake. __________________ Life is like a roll of toilet paper. The closer to the end, the faster it goes. It is better to be seen, than viewed. "We sleep safe in our beds because rough men stand ready in the night to visit violence on those who would do us harm".

06-21-2016, 09:04 PM	#3
tubman Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2013 Location: Minnesota, Florida Keys Posts: 10,316	Re: Oil filter return line leaking at fuel pump bolt on 36 Another fuel pump stand would be what I would prefer, but if you can't find the right one, a "Helicoil" type repair would work. I may be a little picky here, but for a case like this, I would consider something a little better than a "Helicoil" like a product such as a "Timesert". I have used both types, and I wouldn't consider them beyond the skill level of any but a complete neophyte mechanic. If you decide to go the Helicoil/Insert route, make sure you get the complete kit (inserts, the proper drill bit, and special tap). "Helicoils" are probably available locally, while you would probably have to order in a "Timesert" type repair kit.

06-22-2016, 08:29 PM	#4
Joe Shell Member Join Date: Apr 2013 Location: Long Island, NY Posts: 72	Re: Oil filter return line leaking at fuel pump bolt on 36 Thanks Lawson and Tubman for your comments. Lawson, on my setup the fuel pump stand fits over studs coming up fron manifold. The fuel pump is bolted to the female threads in the stand. I have secured a replacement fuel pump stand which looks identical to the existing one and the female threads look good. I hope to replace the existing fuel pump stand tomorrow, but one thing bothers me. The hollow bolt now in the system has a hole drilled up the centerline of the shank of the bolt toward the hex head of the bolt. Apparently the oil returning to the crankcase come out of this hole. But this bolt is screwed into the female thread on the fuel pump stand. Any oil coming out of the end of the bolt would be dead ended inside the fuel pump stand with no way that I can see to return to the crankcase. Do I need to drill a hole in the stand into the female threads to allow th oil to pass thru and drain past te fuel pump lever and down into the crankcase? Am I missing something here? Thanks, Joe

06-22-2016, 10:22 PM	#5
JSeery Member Emeritus Join Date: Nov 2012 Location: Wichita KS Posts: 16,132	Re: Oil filter return line leaking at fuel pump bolt on 36 There should be a return passage or nothing is going to occur (no oil flow).

06-23-2016, 04:29 AM	#6
Joe Shell Member Join Date: Apr 2013 Location: Long Island, NY Posts: 72	Re: Oil filter return line leaking at fuel pump bolt on 36 Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) Thanks JSeery. I don't see a passage that would allow the oil to escape from inside the female thread cavity of the fuel stand and drain back to the crankcase. I will remove the existing stripped fuel pump stand from the car and see if a hole was drilled for a return passage. Question: If I install the replacement fuel pump stand without a return passage, there will be no oil flowing thru the fuel filter. Will this affect the lubrication to the rest of the motor? Thanks, Joe

06-23-2016, 05:39 AM	#7
Joe Shell Member Join Date: Apr 2013 Location: Long Island, NY Posts: 72	Re: Oil filter return line leaking at fuel pump bolt on 36 Meant to say "oil filter" in the next to last sentence above. At this point I would just like to get the car running without oil leaking at the banjo fitting. Joe

06-23-2016, 05:54 AM	#8
Terry,OH Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 4,751	Re: Oil filter return line leaking at fuel pump bolt on 36 It will not effect the oil flow to the engine or do any damage to the engine. If the return path is blocked it renders the oil filter useless. You may find more small leaks with the blockage. There are a few different styles of the fuel pump adaptor. The 32-33 have a straight back and by 34-36 the back was slightly offset (the style you need) in 37 the adaptor casting material may have changed and become thinner it has a embossed ring around the adaptor just above the fuel pump boss. They usually have a part number embossed into the casting inside the pocket for the fuel pump arm. The part number is small and hard to see especially if there is dirt covering it. Originally the 36 used the AC style of filter (as an accessory) The Fram style was not used by Ford until 1940 (still an accessory) So you could remove the entire filter system and retain originality.

06-23-2016, 07:54 AM	#9
Joe Shell Member Join Date: Apr 2013 Location: Long Island, NY Posts: 72	Re: Oil filter return line leaking at fuel pump bolt on 36 Thanks Terry, great info. The replacement f/p stand a friend gave me yesterday does have an offset in the back with a part number of 48 9416. It looks identical to one on the car now with the stripped thread. Still don't understand how the oil coming out of the end of the hollow bolt gets into the pocket for the fuel pump lever in order to drain down. When I take the old one off later

06-23-2016, 07:59 AM	#10
Joe Shell Member Join Date: Apr 2013 Location: Long Island, NY Posts: 72	Re: Oil filter return line leaking at fuel pump bolt on 36 [QUOTE=Joe Shell;1312902]Thanks Terry, great info. The replacement f/p stand a friend gave me yesterday does have an offset in the back with a part number of 48 9416. It looks identical to one on the car now with the stripped thread. Still don't understand how the oil coming out of the end of the hollow bolt gets into the pocket for the fuel pump lever in order to drain down. When I take the old one off later I may find the answere. Perhaps A hole was drilled from inside the f/p lever pocket into the end of the female threads to allow the oil to get out. Hope to sole this today. Thanks again, Joe

06-23-2016, 08:12 AM	#11
Terry,OH Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 4,751	Re: Oil filter return line leaking at fuel pump bolt on 36 Ford had a Service letter reminding mechanics to make sure there was a hole for the return oil. I don't believe you want the hole to dump oil into the pocket for the fuel pump arm. I think to return the oil into the oil fill area is the ticket. Sound like you have the correct fuel pump adaptor, IF the adaptor has a small round recess on the bottom for the oil baffle under the adaptor. I would think adding a small bit of Anti-seize to the bolt threads may help in the future. Last edited by Terry,OH; 06-23-2016 at 08:17 AM.

06-23-2016, 10:31 AM	#14
Joe Shell Member Join Date: Apr 2013 Location: Long Island, NY Posts: 72	Re: Oil filter return line leaking at fuel pump bolt on 36 Thanks for the info. I'm using the hollow bolt with oli passages to attaché the fuel pump to the stand. There are studs coming up from th manifold and the stand is attached with nuts. The new stand is identical to the bad one including part number. Think I will just put it back the way it was. Maybe in the future I'll use the bolt to attach stand to mangold. Thanks Joe

06-23-2016, 10:49 AM	#15
JSeery Member Emeritus Join Date: Nov 2012 Location: Wichita KS Posts: 16,132	Re: Oil filter return line leaking at fuel pump bolt on 36 As Ken stated, the hollow bolt goes directly into the manifold (you remove the stud). There are issues with putting the return oil into the valley area of the block. I would think there would REALLY be issues dumping return oil into the fuel pump attachment area!!!