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Old 05-05-2019, 10:48 AM   #21
drtrcrV-8
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Default Re: Lincoln ECU Alternate Transmission Options

Thank you ROTOWRENCH & KULTZULZ!! Now to save the pennies!!
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Old 05-05-2019, 12:57 PM   #22
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Default Re: Lincoln ECU Alternate Transmission Options

The AOD works OK the way it is if you aren't planning to dump much horse power into it. I like the lock up clutch myself so It's worth it for that. It gives much better mileage but it has to have the torque converter for it. They use a dual input drive to make it work and the weakest link is the small 3-4 input shaft. There are 4340 chrome molly shafts available as strong replacements. They just pull out and push in the front so that is an easy change. The OD band and reverse drum are the next weaker items but the OEMs will hold up to normal driving. The AOD-E was equipped with the wider band and steel drum for the Lincoln Town Cars in 91 or so so those are another beef up that will fit the plain old AOD. A person would have to do some research and have transmission internal experience to do those mods. The transmissions can take up to 400 HP with just these mods. There are some other mods for better shift performance as well but it may work fine without going too ape sh!t with it. Those old Lincolns were nearer 300 HP so the 3-4 shaft may be all it needs to get it going.

The key to longevity is proper set up of the TV cable. If it's set up right, the transmission will shift and hold up pretty well. They work pretty much the same way as the Turbo Drive throttle rod set up that is already in the car except they are a cable set up instead.
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Old 05-05-2019, 10:41 PM   #23
drtrcrV-8
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Default Re: Lincoln ECU Alternate Transmission Options

Rotorwrench : This is exactly the info I am looking for! I'm not concerned about resale : that's for those who administer my estate after I'm gone! This is to be my driver until that time occurs, & better mileage will mean that much more driving!! Now to find a '91 Town Car & a Transmission mechanic who understands what I want! LOL!! Please send along ANY other Transmission "tips" you might think of that apply to the AOD units!!
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Old 05-06-2019, 06:28 PM   #24
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Default Re: Lincoln ECU Alternate Transmission Options

Most of the 1992 models changed to the AOD-E which is electric controlled so just about any Ford, Mercury, or Lincoln car/light truck from 1980 thru 1991 may have a plain old AOD transmission depending on the engine package. Some of the ones made later were still AOD but I can't tell you for certain which ones and they aren't any better than the earlier models back to 88 or so. I think the Lincoln car change was made in 1991 for the 1992 model year so they may be electric only. The AOD-E was made to be stronger and they have the heavy duty band and drum improvements but they have to have the electric controller to make them work. A lot of AOD-E internals will fit into an older AOD case and still work as one but a person needs an experienced builder to do mods like that. It has to work off throttle valve controlled hydraulics to be a true AOD. Electric controllers are available but I can't tell you what quality they might be.

There is a lot of stuff done with AODs to beef them up but not all are good for mileage makers. An example is the solid input drive mod that eliminates the lock up in OD. It uses a solid one piece input and a C6 converter that is non-lockup. This makes for a heavy duty overdrive but it loses efficiency without the lock up in OD. They will take a lot of horse power but not so good on mileage. Monster and a few others will sell them this way so you have to know what you are getting. They are more expensive too plus I don't know what all else they do to them. They don't exactly tell you either.

This wiki lists applications but I don't know how accurate they are. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_AOD_transmission

This should also be some good info:
http://www.mustangandfords.com/how-t...t-aod-aodetail

Last edited by rotorwrench; 05-06-2019 at 06:42 PM.
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Old 05-06-2019, 08:34 PM   #25
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Default Re: Lincoln ECU Alternate Transmission Options

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Most of the 1992 models changed to the AOD-E
There is a lot of stuff done with AODs to beef them up but not all are good for mileage makers. An example is the solid input drive mod that eliminates the lock up in OD. It uses a solid one piece input and a C6 converter that is non-lockup. This makes for a heavy duty overdrive but it loses efficiency without the lock up in OD. They will take a lot of horse power but not so good on mileage. Monster and a few others will sell them this way so you have to know what you are getting. They are more expensive too plus I don't know what all else they do to them. They don't exactly tell you either.

This wiki lists applications but I don't know how accurate they are. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_AOD_transmission

This should also be some good info:
http://www.mustangandfords.com/how-t...t-aod-aodetail
In addition, the C6/non-lockup converter will build a lot of heat! With a rear axle ratio of approx. 3.07 and an overdrive ratio of .67 the final ratio is 2.0569 to 1. At 75 MPH, this is only about 1750 RPM (in theory)! There is quite a bit of hydraulic "slippage" at this low RPM. The converter is not turning fast enough to efficiently transmit power; the trans input shaft will be turning a lot slower than the engine (or you could say that engine has to rev higher to maintain 75 MPH). The resulting "shearing" action of the fluid causes too much heat and it breaks down quickly.
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Old 05-07-2019, 10:10 AM   #26
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Default Re: Lincoln ECU Alternate Transmission Options

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I think most of the ones that go non-lock up use the ratios in the 4R70W since they don't drop the ratio as much but they would still lose efficiency and build heat due to the slippage of fluid flow. The 4R70W is a lot like the AOD-E but it is a later version and is also electrically controlled.
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Old 05-07-2019, 02:38 PM   #27
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Default Re: Lincoln ECU Alternate Transmission Options

IF I do change to an AOD, I was planning to go with a Ford(Lincoln) 9" with somewhere between 3.7 & 3.89 ratio gears(maybe 4.11?) to not lug the engine. With a stock cam they like to cruise somewhere near 2100 to 2300, which is well into their torque curve. I have to ask how well those RPM numbers "fit" with any of the Transmission options you've suggested? I'm not looking for speed/power, as roughly 300HP is plenty for a "driver", but am trying to get more than 16mpg! Instead of an AOD transmission, should I remove that infamous "Teapot Holley", & hide a modern EFI under the huge air cleaner? A lot easier(& way cheaper) than the transmission changes!
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Old 05-07-2019, 05:09 PM   #28
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Default Re: Lincoln ECU Alternate Transmission Options

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Originally Posted by drtrcrV-8 View Post
REMAN : '56 Continental MK II /368 ECU ("Y"-block Lincoln)_ ...
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Originally Posted by drtrcrV-8 View Post
... but am trying to get more than 16mpg! Instead of an AOD transmission, should I remove that infamous "Teapot Holley", & hide a modern EFI under the huge air cleaner? A lot easier(& way cheaper) than the transmission changes!
I have no clue which carb and distributor are on a 368 in a '56 Continental but, if it's like the '56 Fords & Mercs, '56 was the last year for Loadomatic style distributors. (photo #1) In the Fords & Mercs they aren't compatible with carburetors '57 or newer & presumably EFI as well.
The Loadomatics use only ported vacuum to advance the timing (no centrifugal advance) and at a fractional vacuum level than the newer carbs, so they don't work together.
If you can find a '57+ style distributor for the engine then you've got a better chance.
.
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File Type: jpg 57 dist rotor index.jpg (54.6 KB, 2 views)

Last edited by dmsfrr; 05-07-2019 at 06:18 PM.
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Old 05-07-2019, 05:42 PM   #29
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Post Re: Lincoln ECU Alternate Transmission Options

The 56 LINC and MK II had both the LOAD-O-MATIC IGN SYS and an H4000 (although a larger CFM rating).

The IGN update would be a 1957 DIST, ideally with a PERTONIX II or DURASPARK II conversion and (I hate to say this) an EDELBROCK carb. EDEL also offers a throttle body EFI System.

You have to consider what the mileage increase is going to be with all of this cash outlay. Say you sink $5000.00. How long will it take to justify the investment expense and recovery over the difference in price of fuel?

If I were thinking all of the above, I would consider an 5.0/5.8L EFI-AOD or 4.6L-AOD transplant. The main trouble would be to find a qualified shop you could trust.

And please whatever you do (and this is none of my business what you decide to do the car), please save everything as these parts are becoming extremely scarce.
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Old 05-08-2019, 01:25 AM   #30
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Default Re: Lincoln ECU Alternate Transmission Options

Quote:
Originally Posted by drtrcrV-8 View Post
IF I do change to an AOD, I was planning to go with a Ford(Lincoln) 9" with somewhere between 3.7 & 3.89 ratio gears(maybe 4.11?) to not lug the engine. With a stock cam they like to cruise somewhere near 2100 to 2300, which is well into their torque curve. I have to ask how well those RPM numbers "fit" with any of the Transmission options you've suggested? I'm not looking for speed/power, as roughly 300HP is plenty for a "driver", but am trying to get more than 16mpg! Instead of an AOD transmission, should I remove that enfamous "Teapot Holley", & hide a modern EFI under the huge air cleaner? A lot easier(& way cheaper) than the transmission changes!

A "modern EFI" is not a 'magic bullet". I'd expect only a minimal increase in fuel mileage (assuming your carb and ignition are currently working as designed). Maybe 2 MPG? You would still have an inefficient transmission (no lock-up torque converter nor overdrive), a heavy, non-aerodynamic car, and an old school engine design (combustion chamber and port shape plus camshaft).
A good aftermarket EFI kit is around $2500, plus you will need an in-tank electric fuel pump, tank modifications, and new fuel lines.
Then there's labor costs. How much can you do yourself?
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Old 05-08-2019, 01:28 AM   #31
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Default Re: Lincoln ECU Alternate Transmission Options

I have NO INTENTION of "dumping" the "Y-Block" Lincoln, as I'm fairly familiar(owned &/or worked on them since the early '60s) with them, &, while I like the SBF motors, I see no good reason to replace a solid & dependable motor with a "lesser" unit that only ruins an American Classic! Next someone will suggest an LS motor?? I'm looking to move the gas mileage from 15-16(on a good day) to 19-20 with modern technology WITHOUT destroying the character of the car: hidden improvements : yes, but "Blatant Butchery" just for the sake of having a newer motor? HELL NO!! & yes, any removed parts would be carefully saved, as I'm well aware of the problems of finding "old parts"! I'm now leaning more toward "servicing" the existing transmission, Forgetting the AOD, upgrading to fuel injection(& distributor), & doing a fine tune on the motor, then just drive it!! Thank you all for your contributions : It's been a great help to decide where & how I want to go with this project! And good luck with your projects as well!!
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Old 05-08-2019, 03:22 AM   #32
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Question Re: Lincoln ECU Alternate Transmission Options


Now let me get this right...

You want to completely re-design the drive-train of a classic and will most likely not get the increase in mileage you are seeking, but a later complete EFI-OD take-out drive-train upsets you?

Please excuse my participating in this discussion.
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Old 05-08-2019, 11:15 AM   #33
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Default Re: Lincoln ECU Alternate Transmission Options

The old medium case MX Lincoln Turbo-drive type transmission (also used as Merc-O-Matic when the 368 was used) is the father to the Cruise-O-Matics used in the later T-birds with the FE engines. They are a 3-speed that works as a 2-speed unless low is manually selected just like the Ford-O-Matic of the same era. They are quirky old units but work pretty well after they are warmed up. They still used a TV rod to control shifts. If they slip at all then they will quickly die a hard death. As long as it works, a person will be OK with it but mileage will never be much better than it is now.

I don't know which 9-inch rear axle would be best. One out of a later Thunderbird might be a good fit for a Mark II but I don't know for sure. At least ratios are available. A little taller gear might help some for drivablility and a tiny bit for mileage.

No matter what you do, you won't have a large affect on mileage. Drivability could be improved more than mileage. Do a good check of the existing systems. Maybe the distributor vacuum can is bad or timing is off in general. Tune the old car up well and get it in top running shape and put a leever on it and leever alone. Life it too short to jack with stuff too much.
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Old 05-08-2019, 12:59 PM   #34
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Default Re: Lincoln ECU Alternate Transmission Options

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... I'm looking to move the gas mileage from 15-16 (on a good day) to 19-20 with modern technology ...
Unless you change out nearly everything under the hood that kind of mileage increase isn't too likely.
I wish my '55 got 15-16 (it's running rich and needs smaller main jets).
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... You have to consider what the mileage increase is going to be with all of this cash outlay. Say you sink $5000.00. How long will it take to justify the investment expense and recovery over the difference in price of fuel? ...
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... No matter what you do, you won't have a large affect on mileage. Drivability could be improved more than mileage. Do a good check of the existing systems. Maybe the distributor vacuum can is bad or timing is off in general. Tune the old car up well and get it in top running shape and put a leever on it and leever alone. Life it too short to jack with stuff too much.
I bought a classic car for it's style and character, not the fuel mileage. It is what it is.
Get all the old parts working as well as possible and drive it as often as you want to.
It's a cost effective solution that preserves the car.
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Old 05-20-2019, 01:37 PM   #35
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Default Re: Lincoln ECU Alternate Transmission Options

I have one of those Borg Warner/Ford transmissions with the finned torque converter. My only beef with that transmission is that stupid start out in 2nd unless you floor the gas or manually shift! Doesn't cut it for a 5400 pound car needing very high octane fuel. The newer "Cruisomatic" with the D1 D2 L on the prindle will fit on the bell housing but won't work with my PRNDL indicator grrrrrr! From what I read the only difference was an addition of an additional sprag clutch and an updated valve body. I would like this as a full time 3 speed as this car cries out for a 4 speed Hydromatic that the earlier versions had. Hmmmm I just answered your question by accident lmao! 1954 Lincoln and older used the earlier version of the 368 which were 345, and 317.5 and they used a 4 speed Hydramatic on them. Look in this direction and perhaps a Cadillac Hydra could be used or parts of it. 54 I do believe was the last year Ford used the Hydra. The mention of FE vs the 368, well that 368 was certainly NO slouch! The 56 Mark was rated at 285HP with 405 foot pounds of torque and the 57 was 300@408 and it makes my Mark move very well!
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Old 05-20-2019, 01:58 PM   #36
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Post Re: Lincoln ECU Alternate Transmission Options

Just for info-

The LINC HYDRA-MATIC was a 4/S but had a DIRECT final ration.
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Old 05-21-2019, 12:58 PM   #37
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Default Re: Lincoln ECU Alternate Transmission Options

Too bad the factory burned down. They were decent units for their time.
http://www.autotran.us/TheGreatHydraMaticFire.html
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