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Old 11-11-2019, 05:54 PM   #1
rehpotsirhcj
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Default 3sp toploader; could it have worked like this?

Hi guys.
I have a quick trans question for those familiar with top loader internals.

I’m working to rebuild my first 3sp from a trans I bought for the 78 case. Turns out that the condition of the gears, mainshaft, etc. look pretty good. In fact the syncro rings look almost new.

Over the last couple of weeks I’ve been working to identify what parts I actually have, and part of what I have found makes me wonder if this trans was a failed rebuild or if it could have been run.

A few items of concern:
1. the long and short caged bearings were reversed in the cluster gear
2. The sychro hub is the early narrow slot tab type, but the sleeve an 01A (incompatible according to Mac Van Pelts book (excellent read)
3. The thrust washers show signs of wear, with excessive play (50 thousands out of spec) between second and the adjacent thrust washer. Probably mostly from the shorter synchro hub.

My (maybe flawed) plan is to replace the hub with a 81A and hope that it’s greater length, along with a new thick thrust washer does the trick.

So, what do you guys think, could this combination have functioned??! Or did someone come up short on a backyard rebuild?

I’m about to take the plunge on replacement parts, so any thoughts would be appreciated.
Thanks much,
-Chris




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Old 11-11-2019, 06:39 PM   #2
alanwoodieman
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Default Re: 3sp toploader; could it have worked like this?

you got it out-do it correctly, don't skimp on rebuild and you won't be sorry
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Old 11-11-2019, 07:04 PM   #3
rotorwrench
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Default Re: 3sp toploader; could it have worked like this?

If it has the late type gears & shafts then a person should use one of the late type synchronizer assemblies. These are interchangeable in sets from 1939 up into the 50s. The 81A type has the balls & springs and will work with the 01A type sleeve as long as you have the correct parts. The later types need the 91A type wider fork. I prefer the later 51A or 8M type synchro but the older type will work. Some countershaft bearings were caged and some were loose but you need what will fit the cluster and the shafting you have. Mac's book will ID most all stuff. Clusters gears after 68-7113-A are interchangeable but they have to have the stuff that works for them.

Mac VP has a thrust bearing kit. A person just needs to know what cluster they have as to which thrust washer will lock on to it in the back there. Mac also has the correct size (thickness) snap rings that are easier to install & remove. I wouldn't go without those for sure.
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Old 11-11-2019, 08:33 PM   #4
svm99
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Default Re: 3sp toploader; could it have worked like this?

You've done a good job describing your parts. The synchro hub with narrow slots is most likely a 91A, one year only. The 81A was used through the war years until the 51A in '45. The excess clearance between the synchro hub and second can usually be shimmed with the correct thickness of 81A-7069A or B. Be sure your mainshaft, 2nd gear and synchro hub are all 81A part numbers. Use Macs book to determine how to check. Good luck
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Old 11-12-2019, 06:10 PM   #5
rehpotsirhcj
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Default Re: 3sp toploader; could it have worked like this?

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Thanks guys, all good advice.
Good to know on the 81 part numbers. I’ll be replacing the hub and all bushings, washers, bearings etc. The combination of Mac’s book, and the diagrams in his catalog really make this an approachable project.
Just don’t tell my wife what I’m spending : )
-Chris


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