Zinc been taken out of Rotella oil & other diesel brands

[Ol' Ron]

I still think the 5/20 symthetic is the best for our Flathead's, it doesn't need ZDDP.
Google Mobil 1

[flatjack9]

Originally Posted by jimvette59

I have a 327/ 300, 60 over using 10 / 30 castrol and high octane unleaded gas for 10 years. This engine does not get a lot of mileage and have noticed the rocker arms getting noisy. I talked to the rebuilder and he showed me a pile of push rods and rocker arms from new corvettes and SBCs and other mid to high compression engines. Being out of the loop for many years I didn't know about the decreased levels of ZDDP in the oil. He handed me a 1.5 oz of CAM-SHIELD and told me to add this to my oil and adjust the hydrolic lifters and hope for the best. He first noticed the problem when some head bolt manufactures instructions were to use oil to talk down the bolts etc. and the bolts were jerking and driving the digital talk wrench crazy. He ultimately called the manufacturer and they discussed the problem of the lack of zinc in the oil he added a touch of Cam Shield and solved the problem. Just my experience. Jim.T.

Of course, this is not relative to a flathead engine.

[Old Henry]

The oil about which the initial inquiry was made, Rotella, is for diesel engines - not gasoline engines which a flathead is. Oil for Diesel engines probably wouldn't hurt a gas engine but why use it when there are so many formulated specifically for spark ignition (gasoline) engines? Gasoline and diesel oils have different additive packages because the contaminants in the crankcase are different. With a gasoline engine you get a lot of moisture and tar and with a diesel the oil becomes acidic and will collect more carbon.

Many oils will work well in either engine type but it's always best to use an oil specially formulated to the type of engine for optimal life.

You will see things like "API SG or CJ" on the oil container, that means:

API = American Petrolium Industry
SG = Spark ignition (for gasoline engines), grade "G"
CJ = Compression ignition (for diesel engines), grade "J"

The second letter is the grade designator, in alphabetical order, designating chronological advancements in the oil formulations.

[jimvette59]

Originally Posted by flatjack9

Of course, this is not relative to a flathead engine.

Ok I guess the flathead diesels are relative or the 292s or 312 discussed either. The conversation is about ZDDP or lack of. Thank you. JIM.T.

[Bobs29ModelA]

Hey there, Hardtimes, it's always good to hear from you!

I have to share that it was always my understanding that Shell's Rotella line was strictly intended for use in diesel engines, and not approved for use in gasoline engines. (Same thing goes for Chevron's DELO line of oil products).

After reviewing the comments posted (below) by "Old Henry", and after re-reviewing the info for Rotella given on Shell's webpages, I have to agree with the school of thought that using a product such as Rotella in any gas engine would not be a sound choice, especially when (as noted below), there are many other more suitable choices out there. With that said, I think I'll be staying with the Brad Penn line of zinc-based racing-oil products, at least until something better comes along.

[jimvette59]

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Originally Posted by Bobs29ModelA

Hey there, Hardtimes, it's always good to hear from you!

I have to share that it was always my understanding that Shell's Rotella line was strictly intended for use in diesel engines, and not approved for use in gasoline engines. (Same thing goes for Chevron's DELO line of oil products).

After reviewing the comments posted (below) by "Old Henry", and after re-reviewing the info for Rotella given on Shell's webpages, I have to agree with the school of thought that using a product such as Rotella in any gas engine would not be a sound choice, especially when (as noted below), there are many other more suitable choices out there. With that said, I think I'll be staying with the Brad Penn line of zinc-based racing-oil products, at least until something better comes along.

Just ordered a case of 20/50 Bard Penn part synthetic. What do you think for my OT. engine. ( 327 .060 over )

[4t8v8]

Been using Mobil Delvac in 2 vehicles for many years. One a flathead and one a 302. Mobile says it is fine for a gasoline engine. It still has the CI rating. Haven't had any problems at all. No flat cams or sludge buildup.
By the way, what do you guys think is the best cars - Ford or Chevy? Don't want to start anything!

[Rebel Sympathy]

I'm with Ken/Alabama, boys. It's all about spring pressure and a stock flathead engine needs no additive for today's modern oils..... Mike

[CBoz]

Hmmm...after putting 7K miles on my Zephyr, I'm inclined to pick the oil which is easiest to clean off my garage floor.

[Old Henry]

Originally Posted by 4t8v8

what do you guys think is the best cars - Ford or Chevy? Don't want to start anything!

Toyota. Without a doubt.

[38 Ford Guy]

Amsoil has their Z-Rod Oil that has plenty of Zinc and long term corrosion additives for long term storage protection.

[40 Deluxe]

For those of us around in the '50's and '60's, flatheads were just engines powering an old work/winter beater (or all that a kd could afford) and were treated accordingly. The car was usually a rust bucket so got the cheapest oil available (usually SAE 30 re-refined). These cars ran, without wiping out cam lobes, sometimes for years through several owners until they were finally run completely out of oil, sludged up the oil screen, kicked a rod out the side, etc. or the owner got rich enough for something better. I've torn down a number of engines like this and NEVER found a flat cam. So this oil issue is entirely overrated!

[Ian NZ]

In New Zealand and Australia we have a range of Australian Penrite oils Available for our V8's and antique vehicles which I use, and it has Zinc added to it as per chart. http://www.penriteoil.com.au/tech_pd...C%20LEVELS.pdf

[flatjack9]

Originally Posted by 40 Deluxe

For those of us around in the '50's and '60's, flatheads were just engines powering an old work/winter beater (or all that a kd could afford) and were treated accordingly. The car was usually a rust bucket so got the cheapest oil available (usually SAE 30 re-refined). These cars ran, without wiping out cam lobes, sometimes for years through several owners until they were finally run completely out of oil, sludged up the oil screen, kicked a rod out the side, etc. or the owner got rich enough for something better. I've torn down a number of engines like this and NEVER found a flat cam. So this oil issue is entirely overrated!

We keep saying it and saying it, but it just doesn't seem to sink in.

[L78CHEVELLE]

In my opinion there is a lot of knowledge people on the Ford Barn about this subject and I have learned a lot. Since, I posted my original question something has happened to show me what happens when the rubber meets the road. Helped a friend replace some sticking valves in his '40 engine back in September 2012. New valves, one piece valve guides, new Johnson adjustable lifters, and a friend of his gave him new Lincoln valve springs he had left over from a restoration. He has driven the car 952 miles since we did the valve train work. He came by this week with the car and the valve train was very noisy. We took off the intake and every valve gap was excessive. When I did the valve adjustments the first time I used a punch on the lifter threads to keep them from backing off. The lifers had not backed off. I adjusted the valves again and changed the Rotella oil we put in back in September with new Rotella oil and this time I added the Lucas Oil zinc additive. I told him to drive the car about 500 miles and let me know what happens with the valve train. He does drive this car during decent weather all year. I'm not sure if the valve train excessive wear was normal for new parts, if the extra strength Lincoln springs was the cause, or if the zinc reduction was the problem. I will get back to the Ford Barn with some new information after the 500 miles on the new lifter adjustments. Just for the record the clearance for the intake was set on .0011 and the exhaust on .0012 the first time and the second time adjustments. When I checked the lifters after the 952 miles the intake valves were from .0013 to .0015 and the exhaust were .015 to .017.

[trainguy]

Did you set the intake valves at .0013-.0015? Seems a bit tight!!! Phil

[G.M.]

I don't care for adjustable adjustable lifters. We grind the valves to get the proper clearance like Ford did, it takes a little time, but they don't rattle. 115,000 miles and still sound like new. Almost any oil will work in these engines if changed frequently. I switched to Valvoline Cummins 15/40 becuase of the additives. Castrol 20/50 worked for 115,000 miles but I switched due to the additives in the Valvoline, why not take advantige of the improved additives whether I need them or not? G.M.

[flatjack9]

Originally Posted by L78CHEVELLE

In my opinion there is a lot of knowledge people on the Ford Barn about this subject and I have learned a lot. Since, I posted my original question something has happened to show me what happens when the rubber meets the road. Helped a friend replace some sticking valves in his '40 engine back in September 2012. New valves, one piece valve guides, new Johnson adjustable lifters, and a friend of his gave him new Lincoln valve springs he had left over from a restoration. He has driven the car 952 miles since we did the valve train work. He came by this week with the car and the valve train was very noisy. We took off the intake and every valve gap was excessive. When I did the valve adjustments the first time I used a punch on the lifter threads to keep them from backing off. The lifers had not backed off. I adjusted the valves again and changed the Rotella oil we put in back in September with new Rotella oil and this time I added the Lucas Oil zinc additive. I told him to drive the car about 500 miles and let me know what happens with the valve train. He does drive this car during decent weather all year. I'm not sure if the valve train excessive wear was normal for new parts, if the extra strength Lincoln springs was the cause, or if the zinc reduction was the problem. I will get back to the Ford Barn with some new information after the 500 miles on the new lifter adjustments. Just for the record the clearance for the intake was set on .0011 and the exhaust on .0012 the first time and the second time adjustments. When I checked the lifters after the 952 miles the intake valves were from .0013 to .0015 and the exhaust were .015 to .017.

Don't you have too many zeroes on some of those numbers? Surely you don't mean .0011.

[Russ/40]

Originally Posted by L78CHEVELLE

In my opinion there is a lot of knowledge people on the Ford Barn about this subject and I have learned a lot. Since, I posted my original question something has happened to show me what happens when the rubber meets the road. Helped a friend replace some sticking valves in his '40 engine back in September 2012. New valves, one piece valve guides, new Johnson adjustable lifters, and a friend of his gave him new Lincoln valve springs he had left over from a restoration. He has driven the car 952 miles since we did the valve train work. He came by this week with the car and the valve train was very noisy. We took off the intake and every valve gap was excessive. When I did the valve adjustments the first time I used a punch on the lifter threads to keep them from backing off. The lifers had not backed off. I adjusted the valves again and changed the Rotella oil we put in back in September with new Rotella oil and this time I added the Lucas Oil zinc additive. I told him to drive the car about 500 miles and let me know what happens with the valve train. He does drive this car during decent weather all year. I'm not sure if the valve train excessive wear was normal for new parts, if the extra strength Lincoln springs was the cause, or if the zinc reduction was the problem. I will get back to the Ford Barn with some new information after the 500 miles on the new lifter adjustments. Just for the record the clearance for the intake was set on .0011 and the exhaust on .0012 the first time and the second time adjustments. When I checked the lifters after the 952 miles the intake valves were from .0013 to .0015 and the exhaust were .015 to .017.

Even your new numbers should not have been wide enough to cause any significant valve train noise in my opinion. I'd a left them where they were. If the cam was new or a regrind, and the lifters resurfaced they could have settled into what you found. You started a bit tight by the way.

[Tikker]

Well I read all the way through this thread and really have no idea what oil to use......
I just picked up a '52 Customline Tudor Sedan, has 69,000 original miles, original engine.
It's a driver but not sweet by any stretch, it has missed TLC as it was a true barn find, I believe, several years ago.
I want to change the oil and filter and have no idea what is recommended for an engine that has not been refreshed.
Any suggestions would be GREATLY appreciated.