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Old 10-23-2021, 10:13 AM   #61
V8COOPMAN
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Default Re: NEW starting problem

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Originally Posted by 1931 flamingo View Post
V8COOPMAN
Thanks for "hanging" in there for me. The sol DID work when originally put in a week and a half ago. Just a bad one or could something have caused it to fail??
Will update when I get new sol.
Paul in CT

Hey Paul.....As I tried to briefly describe what I believe happened to your solenoid earlier on, I've about concluded that the plunger inside has somehow seized in the "CLOSED" (START) position. In other words, the plunger is holding the contacts permanently connected electrically.

The inside of that type of solenoid looks SOMETHING like the drawing below IN THEORY.





In this drawing, imagine the two vertical posts coming out the top of the drawing as the TWO BIG POSTS on either side of your solenoid. One post has the BATT cable. The other post has the cable going to STARTER.

When you push your starter button, that SMALL post in the center of your solenoid becomes grounded. This action causes an electro magnetic force to move a plunger inside the solenoid. When it moves to it's extreme, it causes a contact plate to electrically connect BOTH of those BIG POSTS (like the THREE heavy-black-colored pieces toward top of drawing). When those two posts are connected like that, the starter RUNS.

It would be easy for that flat, BLACK bar in the drawing to become so hot that it could have welded itself to those two HEAVY BLACK posts, thus....causing your starter to be connected directly to your BATTERY CONTINUOUSLY!

Your OHM meter proved that SOMETHING is connecting those two posts INTERNALLY. Solenoid "NO WORKIE"! What 'cha think, Paul?

One suggestion MAYBE....Don't EVER continuously try to crank & crank & crank the engine if it does not start in a reasonable amount of time. Give those contacts inside the solenoid a chance to cool down before continuing to crank on starter. DD









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Last edited by V8COOPMAN; 10-23-2021 at 10:18 AM.
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Old 10-23-2021, 10:23 AM   #62
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Default Re: NEW starting problem

Nice gif to show how the metallic rod is pulled with magnetism to close the circuit to the starter, i.e. the heavy black parts in DD's post.



https://ecampus.matc.edu/mihalj/scit...solenoid_B.GIF
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Old 10-23-2021, 10:25 AM   #63
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Default Re: NEW starting problem

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Nice gif to show how the metallic rod is pulled with magnetism to close the circuit to the starter, i.e. the heavy black parts in DD's post.



https://ecampus.matc.edu/mihalj/scit...solenoid_B.GIF
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Old 10-30-2021, 08:54 AM   #64
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Default Re: NEW starting problem

Replaced the starter sol and all is good except it won't start. I may have "fried" the electronic module.
Paul


Thank you all for "hangin" in there with me.
Paul in CT
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Old 10-30-2021, 10:00 AM   #65
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Default Re: NEW starting problem

Hi Paul,


You may have fried the Petronix. Thisis from the installation instructions:


"Q. What happens if you leave the ignition switch on when the engine is not running?
A. This can cause your coil to overheat, which may cause permanent damage to the coil and the ignitor."


This is how you can test the unit:
http://www.ttalk.info/Tech/PerPosGndTest.htm


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Old 04-26-2022, 03:30 PM   #66
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[QUOTE=V8COOPMAN;2066165]OK Paul, so far....so good. There are TWO basic types of charging circuits....Type "A", and Type "B". This is determined by the generator itself, as well as the voltage regulator type.

Fords of that vintage should be of the "B" type. I BELIEVE that "B" type regulators have three terminals marked as yours is...ARM--FLD--BAT.

Your wiring connections should look as below.





NOW Paul .....Some things you need to realize. You said that your regulator started-out VIBRATING/HUMMING. That MAY be as a result of NOT polarizing a new generator or regulator BEFORE starting the engine initially.

I'm thinking that you POSSIBLY may have already done some harm to that new regulator, but possibly NOT. But, it needs to be properly polarized. Before we go ant farther, you MUST verify that YOUR wiring connections resemble that diagram above, or the UPPER HALF of colored diagram BELOW.

BIG wire between BIG lug on REAR of generator and "ARM" on regulator.

SMALLER wire between SMALL lug on SIDE of generator and "FLD" on regulator.

LARGER size wire from BATTERY or SOLENOID connection, POSSIBLY through ammeter, and on to "BAT" on regulator.

The UPPER HALF of this diagram (BELOW) shows about what your connections should look like....NEG BAT post if POS GROUND. You MAY, or MAY NOT have that separate GROUND WIRE.





Now, with ALL wiring connections verified, let's attempt to polarize.

First, remove the BATTERY CABLE connection at POS BATTERY post. This will take any power off of regulator, like starting from scratch.

Now, re-attach CABLE to POS BATT post.

DO NOT turn key on! DO NOT crank engine!


CAREFULLY, remove the "FLD" wire from terminal on regulator. DO NOT let it touch any metal surface.

Carefully, take the end of "FLD" wire and briefly TOUCH it to the "BAT" terminal on VOLTAGE REGulator. Do that a couple of times. You should see a slight spark each time.

Now, carefully re-connect the "FLD" wire to the "FLD" terminal on voltage regulator.


PLEASE...Follow these directions explicitly, and IN ORDER!
__________________________________________________ ______


Now, crank-up your engine and tell us what your results are. Hopefully, all will be normal. If NOT normal, it's likely that your regulator (or generator) is damaged internally.

ANY TIME you work on GEN or REGULATOR circuits, you MUST re-polarize. It also won't hurt to re-polarize any time BATTERY is disconnected from circuit.

What do ya think, Paul? DD


I have been looking at this older thread. I have put a new battery in the 48
(6 volt) and after running for awhile the battery doesn't charge. I see that DD is saying that each time the battery is disconnected from the system it must be re-polarized. I have never done this at each disconnect. Would this mean that if one has a battery disconnect switch installed they should re-polarize each time it is turned off? When I leave the car parked for long periods I disconnect the battery. Should it be re-polarized each time? Obviously I'm not an electrical trouble shooter.
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Old 04-26-2022, 05:59 PM   #67
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Default Re: NEW starting problem

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To all: I feel so stupid for misdiagnosing the problem I can't sleep.
.................................................. .....
Paul
Thanks to all for bearing with me.

Paul been there done that -These guys don't mind . With the last major problem I had I thought some of the posters were going to pull all their hair out with me . They just get frustrated when they can't fix it for us. Believe me this is all part of the learning process .
If you've never felt stupid you've never learned anything -Karl
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Old 04-27-2022, 06:35 PM   #68
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Default Re: NEW starting problem

Reading through this old thread I was amused in a sad sort of way. So many needless contortions! So much unnecessary confusion! Remember the KISS principle.
Simply label and remove every wire on the generator, regulator and solenoid (these parts were recently changed or messed with). Next, reattach the wires one at a time until "the generator starts to motor". There is your problem! (Hmmm, it happened when I connected the solenoid!) So simple!
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Old 04-28-2022, 08:30 AM   #69
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Default Re: NEW starting problem

For you maybe...............


I didn't understand OHM's Law in High School. The Navy sent me through a year of Electronic's schools and then I worked for 29 years at IBM and KODAK fixing copiers. I still don't get OHM's Law.
Paul
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Old 04-28-2022, 02:28 PM   #70
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Default Re: NEW starting problem

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For you maybe...............


I didn't understand OHM's Law in High School. The Navy sent me through a year of Electronic's schools and then I worked for 29 years at IBM and KODAK fixing copiers. I still don't get OHM's Law.
Paul


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Old 04-29-2022, 09:15 AM   #71
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Default Re: NEW starting problem

'Morning Ron


Good luck on Sunday.
Too much walking for me and I don't need anything.


Paul
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