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Old 03-29-2020, 10:44 PM   #1
hardtimes
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Default Gen charging Q

I'll try to picture the device that's on top of my generator.
If it shows, I'd like to know if anyone has seen such and how is it adjusted ?
My amp gauage shows negative, until I rev to an unpleasant rpm, then it will show charge. In your opinion, does this 'regulator' thingy need changed out or
what to get the generator charge to more output ??

The gen has a THIRD brush. I've moved it 2 to 3" back/forth slowly..no change ?

no pic.....?
THANKS FOR INPUT...
Ok guys, some egg head showed me what I was doing to upset machine and no pic....
I do not think that I infformed you correctly, in that this is now a 12V system from original..if that makes you change your advice.
From pic, do you recognize silver device / cutout ? Maybe junk needs changed ??
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Last edited by hardtimes; 03-30-2020 at 11:52 PM. Reason: ..........
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Old 03-30-2020, 12:07 AM   #2
flatheadmurre
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Default Re: Gen charging Q

The third brush only sets the output...the cutout on top is what needs adjusting/replacing in this case.
You can convert it to using a diode instead of the relay thatīs in there now and there will be no need for maintenance in the future.
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Old 03-30-2020, 12:47 AM   #3
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Default Re: Gen charging Q

The link below to Fun Projects is the diode that flatheadmurre advised.
www.funprojects.com
Electronic Voltage Regulator contained within a Ford Script Cutout
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Old 03-30-2020, 02:00 AM   #4
Alaska Jim
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Default Re: Gen charging Q

be sure to check that the belt tension is correct and that the belt is not slipping, if it is this could be the problem
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Old 03-30-2020, 02:02 AM   #5
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Default Re: Gen charging Q

If you have a "knub" cyclinder on the top of your gen. It's a cutout (as murre said) not a regulator. Off/on.


https://www.amazon.com/AQP-Tractor-G.../dp/B0714F7K44


https://www.completetractor.com/new-...9n-b0nn10505a/


ford38v8 link is good too.


A diode is used to limit current flow in one direction.
Main functions. The most common function of a diode is to allow an electric current to pass in one direction (called the diode's forward direction), while blocking it in the opposite direction (the reverse direction). As such, the diode can be viewed as an electronic version of a check valve.



.

Last edited by Tinker; 03-30-2020 at 02:27 AM.
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Old 03-30-2020, 09:41 AM   #6
Kurt in NJ
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Default Re: Gen charging Q

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Most likely it is a normal cutout, just a switch, then there are modifications to cutouts, --a diode cutout works the same as original cutout, these can be jumped out to check , then there is "fun projects regulator---those get burned out easily by trying to jump them out

from your description I think if normal/diode cutout that is working and you has a generator problem, you could take the "cutout" off, connect direct to generator, start car, check if charging---shut off, take wire back off generator

another test you can do that will give some idea of generator function is to take the belt off, then connect the wire direct to generator post, the generator should run as a motor

running a 3 brush generator not connected to a battery WILL cause overvoltage at the generator(and anything still connected to it, and cause it to burn up, it will make over 40 volts

take the cover band off and look at the inside across from where the wires are soldered to the commutator for silver blobs (solder melted off the commutator---thrown solder),

if you have a volt meter check the voltage at both sides of the cutout---stopped, at idle,and at higher engine speeds---should have no voltage at generator post not running, at idle there should be some voltage at generator post depending on idle speed (3-6V), the voltage should come up with engine speed to match the voltage at the other side of a normal cutout, with a diode cutout it should show a 0.5 volt difference, higher at generator post
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Old 03-30-2020, 12:39 PM   #7
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Default Re: Gen charging Q

The old original type cut out switch has the can spot welded to the base in a couple of spots that can be seen if you pull it off the generator and turn it upside down. A person can carefully grind away the spot welds and take the cover off to see what's in there. Sometimes they just need the points cleaned.

The cut out switch senses a current/voltage generated after the engine is fired up. The generator pole shoes are magnetized by polarization procedure and the residual magnetism is enough to generate enough current to close that cut out switch and bring the generator on line. The battery is what sets the system voltage in a 3-brush generator system so it's very important to have good connections and correct polarity with the battery prior to starting the engine.

The modern replacements are just a relatively high amperage rated diode that only lets current go one way so the generator won't motor when you shut the engine down. The Fun Projects unit that folks talk about has a diode but it also has a current controller so that the unit will only put out current when it's needed for battery recharge or operation of the headlamps. The charge rate will drop down to little or nothing when the battery is completely recharged during running with no lights on. A normal three brush generator set up generates at a current rate that the brush is adjusted to all the time whether it needs it or not. The Fun Projects unit allows it to take a rest break when fully charged. It's a very simple form of regulator but they can easily be damaged by trying to jump start or connecting them the wrong way.

Last edited by rotorwrench; 03-30-2020 at 12:45 PM.
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Old 03-30-2020, 02:14 PM   #8
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Default Re: Gen charging Q

The cut-out is an on/off switch to charge the generator. That's all. The rate of charge is adjusted in the generator itself. To increase the rate, gently tap the third brush DOWN. To decrease the rate, gently tap it up. (Up is down, down is up)

What I do is turn on the lights in the vehicle and observe the amp meter:
1) I start the car and then turn all the lights on.
2) Car should be at a high idle.
3) Observe Amp Meter. Meter should read at ZERO. If not, turn off the car, remove the metal band on the generator and make any correction by gently taping the third brush up or down to send the correct voltage of ZERO to the car.
4) Observe the Amp Meter. Verify at ZERO.
5) Turn off the lights and observe the charge rate with car running at high idle. It should read around 7-9 Volts with lights off.
6) Replace band and Happy Motoring.
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Old 03-30-2020, 11:58 PM   #9
hardtimes
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Default Re: Gen charging Q

Quote:
Originally Posted by fourfords View Post
The cut-out is an on/off switch to charge the generator. That's all. The rate of charge is adjusted in the generator itself. To increase the rate, gently tap the third brush DOWN. To decrease the rate, gently tap it up. (Up is down, down is up)

What I do is turn on the lights in the vehicle and observe the amp meter:
1) I start the car and then turn all the lights on.
2) Car should be at a high idle.
3) Observe Amp Meter. Meter should read at ZERO. If not, turn off the car, remove the metal band on the generator and make any correction by gently taping the third brush up or down to send the correct voltage of ZERO to the car.
4) Observe the Amp Meter. Verify at ZERO.
5) Turn off the lights and observe the charge rate with car running at high idle. It should read around 7-9 Volts with lights off.
6) Replace band and Happy Motoring.
You guys are really helpful and therefor, this will be figured out !
I just added pic , maybe viewing the 'CUTOUT' will make opinion change ?

Now I'll give your third brush change method a whirl. When I changed 3rd brush , I had engine running and a bud watching as I changed...with no results. I'm pretty much all thumbs with auto elect....
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Old 03-31-2020, 12:23 AM   #10
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Default Re: Gen charging Q

Quote:
Originally Posted by hardtimes View Post
You guys are really helpful and therefor, this will be figured out ! I just added pic , maybe viewing the 'CUTOUT' will make opinion change ?
Now I'll give your third brush change method a whirl. When I changed 3rd brush , I had engine running and a bud watching as I changed...with no results. I'm pretty much all thumbs with auto elect....
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Old 03-31-2020, 12:25 AM   #11
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Default Re: Gen charging Q

Thatīs an after market diode you got on there.
Run the engine at some rpm put a jumper cable between the 2 posts on the diode if you get charge reading diode is bad.
Otherwise you probably have a field or armature issue...the 3 brush canīt put out much current when people set them to high they fry.
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Old 03-31-2020, 12:31 AM   #12
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Default Re: Gen charging Q

I'm not familiar with the cutout you have. You now say that yours is a 12 volt system. ("I do not think that I informed you correctly, in that this is now a 12V system from original..if that makes you change your advice.") I don't think your 3 brush generator is compatible with a 12 volt system/battery....

8040-6159 *NEW* Universal Generator Cut Out 6V, 12V, 24V | Smith Co Electric
Brand New High Quality Universal Solid State Replacement Generator Cut Out - No Adjustments



This is the more common type of cutout




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Last edited by petehoovie; 03-31-2020 at 01:40 AM.
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Old 03-31-2020, 12:35 AM   #13
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Default Re: Gen charging Q

Solid state electronics can be great or problematic. A old cutout rarely goes bad. My opinion. Cheap also.


Circuit boards preform best at 70 degrees.


ford38v8 link is proven and been around for a while. I haven't heard any bad reviews anyway.

Last edited by Tinker; 03-31-2020 at 12:40 AM.
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Old 03-31-2020, 12:56 AM   #14
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Default Re: Gen charging Q

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tinker View Post
Solid state electronics can be great or problematic. A old cutout rarely goes bad. My opinion. Cheap also.


Circuit boards preform best at 70 degrees.


ford38v8 link is proven and been around for a while. I haven't heard any bad reviews anyway.
The cutout is a relay so it will only last for so many opening/closing...then it will need maintenance or replacing.
If you can live with the looks of that diode they work fine if not shorted or abused.
Or you can convert your original cutout by installing a $5 diode in it.
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Old 03-31-2020, 01:00 AM   #15
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Default Re: Gen charging Q

A starter solenoid is basically a relay. (magnet coil) Rarely goes bad. Or I'm wrong. asking.
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Old 03-31-2020, 01:45 AM   #16
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Default Re: Gen charging Q

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tinker View Post
A starter solenoid is basically a relay. (magnet coil) Rarely goes bad. Or I'm wrong. asking.
They can take so many startings and then the contacts are burnt out.
But itīs only once for every drive you use the solenoid to start your engine.
Every time you go down below charging rev the cutout will open and when you step on it again they close...so they see a lot more cycles...
Anything mechanical will need maintenance...a relay has a specification on how many cycles it is designed to do without issues.
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Old 03-31-2020, 01:48 AM   #17
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Default Re: Gen charging Q

Thanks Murre. I appreciate it!


I'm guessing nobody is making replacement parts.


Thanks again guys.

Last edited by Tinker; 03-31-2020 at 03:27 AM.
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Old 03-31-2020, 06:31 AM   #18
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Default Re: Gen charging Q

Your diode type cut out has to be connected properly to work. Is your battery connected + to ground, if so turn the diode around and reconnect. Right now you have it connected battery - to ground.
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Old 03-31-2020, 08:47 AM   #19
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Default Re: Gen charging Q

Quote:
Originally Posted by Terry,OH View Post
Your diode type cut out has to be connected properly to work. Is your battery connected + to ground, if so turn the diode around and reconnect. Right now you have it connected battery - to ground.
Thatīs a to simple solution
Good someone has sharp eyes !
I canīt tell from the pics even with my reading glasses...
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Old 03-31-2020, 09:28 AM   #20
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Default Re: Gen charging Q

Quote:
Originally Posted by ford38v8 View Post
The link below to Fun Projects is the diode that flatheadmurre advised.
www.funprojects.com
Electronic Voltage Regulator contained within a Ford Script Cutout



Lots of great info here and Yes I see his car is converted to 12v. For those of us that are still 6v ,the only problem is the 6V pos ground have been on backorder every time I have checked over the last couple years
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