The Ford Barn

Fillinjc · 11-10-2015, 01:18 PM

Hi,

I know there are threads posted on this topic on this forum and others. Only out of frustration will I start another. Been working on removing my head off and on for several days now. Continuously spraying the studs with penetrating oil. My latest attempt has been with a jury rigged puller using some scrap channel (pic attached). I can see light under 7/8's of the head. But the stud on the front corner by the water pump isn't budging. I have rapped down on it with a brass hammer. I have tapped around the diameter with a punch. Would a puller from the Model A suppliers do more than my makeshift one? Any other suggestions? I can't see the rope in the cylinder trick applying more pressure than I already am.

Thanks,
Jerry

30ccpickup · 11-10-2015, 01:41 PM

Try removing some of the looser studs with a jam nut (double nuts), before pulling.

rf900rkw · 11-10-2015, 01:49 PM

On the old Jaguar XK engines the heads were always corroded to the studs. I would wind a sacrificial nut onto the offending stud, put an air chisel with a wide flat bit against a flank of the nut, and buzz the crap out of the stud. You are pushing the stud sideways in the head hole. Try different angles and you will eventually find one where all that corrosion goo comes oozing up and out like a play-doh press. Hopefully this technique can be adapted to the A engine.

Tom Wesenberg · 11-10-2015, 02:55 PM

Those front two bolts are usually the worst for sticking, so I made this tool to help put a lot of lifting pressure on the studs.

https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showth...ade+tools+head

I would start by installing a nut loosely on each stud, then rattle it from the side with an air hammer. Spray Kroil on the stud first.

H. L. Chauvin · 11-10-2015, 03:31 PM

FWIW: Never saw a rusted Model A head or Model B head or military vehicle head that could not be lifted with "hard maple" wood wedges.

1. Start by compressing sides of head soft gasket with a large flat head screw driver making about (10) openings, (5 each side), about 2" in width. Even out openings with a putty knife.

2. Make (10) "hard maple" wood wedges, about 1-7/8" wide x 6" long with a taper starting at a sharp edge and sloping upwards to about 3/8" thickness; or 12" long sloping upwards to about 3/4" thickness.

3. Most importantly is:

A. Not how often or how hard the wedges are hit with a hammer; nor,

B. How deep the wedges are driven inwards; nor,

C. How many replacement ruined wedge have to be replaced; however,

D. Most importantly is to check "often" to insure that when lifting, the flat bottom side of the head "always" remains "perfectly parallel" to the flat top of the engine block ........ so that fixed, head bolts securely fastened to the engine block remain "perfectly parallel" to the corresponding head bolt holes in the head.

Seeing day light under 7/8's of head is a major problem in itself, thus causing severe jamming friction and resistance between rough rusted bolt shanks and rough rusted bolt holes.

Willie Krash · 11-10-2015, 04:08 PM

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As always H.L has great advice. (always)
I used Maple blocks too. I did get a little lift on the head and would knock it back down.
I'd use the puller, knock it down, etc..etc.
Watch out for open valves on the starboard side.

CarlG · 11-10-2015, 04:09 PM

If you can back those two front studs out, everything else goes much easier.

Bulligen · 11-10-2015, 04:26 PM

Like someone has already said the head MUST stay perfectly parallel or it will not come off. Your puller is as you can see too far towards thr front to evenly. I have taken alot of heads off and penetrating oil and patience does alot as well!

30coupeguy · 11-10-2015, 06:00 PM

I made the mistake of not being careful enough when using wedges and bent a valve, just like the warning above.
I learned a lot when trying to get my stuck head off. First of all, it HAS to be raised parallel to the block. If it isn',t then you HAVE to knock it back down.
That just might do the trick. There was an article in the "Restorer" around October of last year that compared the different penetrating oils. It showed the differences in foot pounds required to break loose nuts, etc. The very best was a mixture of 50% transmission oil and 50% acetone. I tried them all. It took me weeks of soaking, lifting with the head lifting tool I bought from Snyders, and hanging the d... thing (car engine and all) from a shop crane. All the time soaking the devil out of the studs. My machinist son in law came by one day and I was showing him my problem and he peeked at the my set up and said lets knock the head back parallel. Three minutes later the head was off and sitting on my bench.
burt

brum1 · 11-10-2015, 06:32 PM

I have also used heat with great success with a puller in place. Oxy/Acetylene if you got it

glenn in camino · 11-10-2015, 08:55 PM

I always use a bottle jack from the generator mount to the underside of the front of the head. Jacking up the front will also loosen the rest of the head so you can get a large screw driver under the rear and pry it loose. Works every time.

stewwolfe · 11-10-2015, 09:09 PM

A member of our club made an auxiliary head puller. It is an angle iron that was drilled to fit the water pump mounting holes with two studs mounted through the angle that screw down onto the long studs going through the water jacket. It works well. If you are interested let me know and I'll photograph it and post a photo.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Tom Wesenberg · 11-10-2015, 09:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stewwolfe

A member of our club made an auxiliary head puller. It is an angle iron that was drilled to fit the water pump mounting holes with two studs mounted through the angle that screw down onto the long studs going through the water jacket. It works well. If you are interested let me know and I'll photograph it and post a photo.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

I can picture it because right after I spent many hours making mine, I thought I should have just made one out of heavy angle iron.

It would still be nice to see a picture of it.

stewwolfe · 11-10-2015, 09:41 PM

I'll take a picture in the morning and post it. I will tell you that it isn't as nice looking as yours.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

stewwolfe · 11-11-2015, 07:11 AM

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

stewwolfe · 11-11-2015, 07:18 AM

Unfortunately Tapatalk won't let me write in the same area as I post photos. John used a 4" by 6" angle iron. The 4 holes line up with the water pump holes. When you bolt it to the head the Jack screws on the top will line up with the two long head studs that come through the water outlet. Combine it with a standard head puller, or some hardwood wedges and it will get most any stuck head off.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Tom Wesenberg · 11-11-2015, 09:14 AM

Yep, that's exactly what I thought I should have made instead of the one I did make. Mine works great, but takes too much time to make, and a thick angle iron plate can do the same job. I would screw nuts to the end of the studs to give the bolts more surface area to push against, and to protect the stud threads.

stewwolfe · 11-11-2015, 12:08 PM

Good idea and easy to rectify.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

jaguar6165 · 01-12-2016, 06:29 PM

I've read and searched the forums and I have a couple questions as I am having issue with a stuck head. I bought a metal plate to make my own puller and have the studs marked using a new gasket, but haven't drilled it yet for the bolts. What is the best way to bust out old plugs? I figured I'd drill the holes for the studs and line it up with the hollowed plugs so I can get an accurate mark for their location in the plate.

11-10-2015, 01:41 PM	#2
30ccpickup Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Wakarusa, IN Posts: 928	Re: Another Stuck Head Try removing some of the looser studs with a jam nut (double nuts), before pulling. __________________ http://MODELABASICS.com/ How Things Work on a Model "A" Ford Fordbarners, Feel free to use the pictures on my site to answer questions and create tutorials/tech articles.

11-10-2015, 01:49 PM	#3
rf900rkw Junior Member Join Date: Nov 2015 Location: Chesapeake Va Posts: 6	Re: Another Stuck Head On the old Jaguar XK engines the heads were always corroded to the studs. I would wind a sacrificial nut onto the offending stud, put an air chisel with a wide flat bit against a flank of the nut, and buzz the crap out of the stud. You are pushing the stud sideways in the head hole. Try different angles and you will eventually find one where all that corrosion goo comes oozing up and out like a play-doh press. Hopefully this technique can be adapted to the A engine.

11-10-2015, 02:55 PM	#4
Tom Wesenberg Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Mpls, MN Posts: 27,582	Re: Another Stuck Head Those front two bolts are usually the worst for sticking, so I made this tool to help put a lot of lifting pressure on the studs. https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showth...ade+tools+head I would start by installing a nut loosely on each stud, then rattle it from the side with an air hammer. Spray Kroil on the stud first.

11-10-2015, 03:31 PM	#5
H. L. Chauvin Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 4,179	Re: Another Stuck Head FWIW: Never saw a rusted Model A head or Model B head or military vehicle head that could not be lifted with "hard maple" wood wedges. 1. Start by compressing sides of head soft gasket with a large flat head screw driver making about (10) openings, (5 each side), about 2" in width. Even out openings with a putty knife. 2. Make (10) "hard maple" wood wedges, about 1-7/8" wide x 6" long with a taper starting at a sharp edge and sloping upwards to about 3/8" thickness; or 12" long sloping upwards to about 3/4" thickness. 3. Most importantly is: A. Not how often or how hard the wedges are hit with a hammer; nor, B. How deep the wedges are driven inwards; nor, C. How many replacement ruined wedge have to be replaced; however, D. Most importantly is to check "often" to insure that when lifting, the flat bottom side of the head "always" remains "perfectly parallel" to the flat top of the engine block ........ so that fixed, head bolts securely fastened to the engine block remain "perfectly parallel" to the corresponding head bolt holes in the head. Seeing day light under 7/8's of head is a major problem in itself, thus causing severe jamming friction and resistance between rough rusted bolt shanks and rough rusted bolt holes.

11-10-2015, 04:08 PM	#6
Willie Krash Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Phoenix, Oregon Posts: 661	Re: Another Stuck Head Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) As always H.L has great advice. (always) I used Maple blocks too. I did get a little lift on the head and would knock it back down. I'd use the puller, knock it down, etc..etc. Watch out for open valves on the starboard side. __________________ Mike Stitt "A business that make nothing but money is a poor business." -Henry Ford

11-10-2015, 04:09 PM	#7
CarlG Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Anchorage, Alaska Posts: 9,115	Re: Another Stuck Head If you can back those two front studs out, everything else goes much easier. __________________ Alaskan A's Antique Auto Mushers of Alaska Model A Ford Club of America Model A Restorers Club Antique Automobile Club of America Mullins Owner's Club

11-10-2015, 04:26 PM	#8
Bulligen Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2012 Location: Elgin Illinois Posts: 736	Re: Another Stuck Head Like someone has already said the head MUST stay perfectly parallel or it will not come off. Your puller is as you can see too far towards thr front to evenly. I have taken alot of heads off and penetrating oil and patience does alot as well!

11-10-2015, 06:00 PM	#9
30coupeguy Member Join Date: Dec 2012 Location: Cashmere,WA Posts: 59	Re: Another Stuck Head I made the mistake of not being careful enough when using wedges and bent a valve, just like the warning above. I learned a lot when trying to get my stuck head off. First of all, it HAS to be raised parallel to the block. If it isn',t then you HAVE to knock it back down. That just might do the trick. There was an article in the "Restorer" around October of last year that compared the different penetrating oils. It showed the differences in foot pounds required to break loose nuts, etc. The very best was a mixture of 50% transmission oil and 50% acetone. I tried them all. It took me weeks of soaking, lifting with the head lifting tool I bought from Snyders, and hanging the d... thing (car engine and all) from a shop crane. All the time soaking the devil out of the studs. My machinist son in law came by one day and I was showing him my problem and he peeked at the my set up and said lets knock the head back parallel. Three minutes later the head was off and sitting on my bench. burt

11-10-2015, 06:32 PM	#10
brum1 Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Raynham, Mass. Posts: 583	Re: Another Stuck Head I have also used heat with great success with a puller in place. Oxy/Acetylene if you got it __________________ "no one knows more than everyone"

11-10-2015, 08:55 PM	#11
glenn in camino Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Camino, CA. Posts: 3,086	Re: Another Stuck Head I always use a bottle jack from the generator mount to the underside of the front of the head. Jacking up the front will also loosen the rest of the head so you can get a large screw driver under the rear and pry it loose. Works every time.

11-10-2015, 09:09 PM	#12
stewwolfe Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: North Chesterfield, VA Posts: 299	Another Stuck Head A member of our club made an auxiliary head puller. It is an angle iron that was drilled to fit the water pump mounting holes with two studs mounted through the angle that screw down onto the long studs going through the water jacket. It works well. If you are interested let me know and I'll photograph it and post a photo. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk __________________ '31 40B '31 68C

11-10-2015, 09:41 PM	#14
stewwolfe Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: North Chesterfield, VA Posts: 299	Re: Another Stuck Head I'll take a picture in the morning and post it. I will tell you that it isn't as nice looking as yours. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk __________________ '31 40B '31 68C

11-11-2015, 07:11 AM	#15
stewwolfe Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: North Chesterfield, VA Posts: 299	Another Stuck Head Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk __________________ '31 40B '31 68C

11-11-2015, 07:18 AM	#16
stewwolfe Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: North Chesterfield, VA Posts: 299	Re: Another Stuck Head Unfortunately Tapatalk won't let me write in the same area as I post photos. John used a 4" by 6" angle iron. The 4 holes line up with the water pump holes. When you bolt it to the head the Jack screws on the top will line up with the two long head studs that come through the water outlet. Combine it with a standard head puller, or some hardwood wedges and it will get most any stuck head off. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk __________________ '31 40B '31 68C

11-11-2015, 09:14 AM	#17
Tom Wesenberg Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Mpls, MN Posts: 27,582	Re: Another Stuck Head Yep, that's exactly what I thought I should have made instead of the one I did make. Mine works great, but takes too much time to make, and a thick angle iron plate can do the same job. I would screw nuts to the end of the studs to give the bolts more surface area to push against, and to protect the stud threads.

11-11-2015, 12:08 PM	#18
stewwolfe Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: North Chesterfield, VA Posts: 299	Re: Another Stuck Head Good idea and easy to rectify. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk __________________ '31 40B '31 68C

01-12-2016, 06:29 PM	#19
jaguar6165 Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Casselberry, FL Posts: 188	Re: Another Stuck Head I've read and searched the forums and I have a couple questions as I am having issue with a stuck head. I bought a metal plate to make my own puller and have the studs marked using a new gasket, but haven't drilled it yet for the bolts. What is the best way to bust out old plugs? I figured I'd drill the holes for the studs and line it up with the hollowed plugs so I can get an accurate mark for their location in the plate.