Harmon and Collins

[all american boy]

Anybody know the Harmon and Collins story?


They were probably in Southern California.


Figuring that because 50's Hot Rod magazine articles are full of Harmon and



Collins cam's and lot of dry lakes cars had H&C magneto's.

[40 Deluxe]

Originally Posted by all american boy

Anybody know the Harmon and Collins story?


They were probably in Southern California.


Figuring that because 50's Hot Rod magazine articles are full of Harmon and



Collins cam's and lot of dry lakes cars had H&C magneto's.

Just type "Harmon and Collins history" into your search box, click the "enter" key and Presto! there's your answer!

[all american boy]

Thank you but same result as this morning.Just odds and ends of info.


Here are questions:


Were they in Southern California? Where were they?


Any body been to their shop?


How come I never ran across any of their stuff?


Was the majority of it for Ford flathead V8's?


When did they go out of business?


What is a 3/4 cam?


Thanks!

[all american boy]

Okay.Here's this.


http://www.crazyhorsespeedshop.com/h...--collins.html


Looks like H&C ran great guns from '50 to '61.Then was bought by Schieffer



clutch.


They started in Alhambra then moved to another location.Probably in



Southern California because Hot Rod '56 article used their cam and a dyno.


Hot Rod magazine was in Hollywood.More or less.


Little history on link does not say boo about ignitions and I think they



made a bunch of flathead parts.Heads and manifolds.Maybe not.


Guess their OHV V8 cams for all the makes were hot for awhile.


Funny they just disappeared like that.

[rotorwrench]

You likely won't find a lot of information about them on the internet. Kenny Harman and Clifford Collins were from the southern California region. Harman split with the original company and just went strictly into camshaft work. Harman was in San Diego for a long time. I'm not sure about where Cliff Collins ended up but an engineer like him could go anywhere he wanted to. They started out in 1945 and had a shop at 5552 Alhambra Ave - Los Angeles, CA. Here are some snipits off the internet.

https://www.hotrod.com/articles/0602...parts-history/
https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/...ollins.227166/

[all american boy]

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Thank you.


I gleaned out the good stuff from those two links.


'The H&C name in ignitions had a good reputation; their dual-point, dual-coil setup was similar to what others were doing at the time, but they also made their H&C magneto for racing use that was an all-new design.'


Here's another from Anderson HAMB forum.


'When H&C split up many years ago as I understand it Kenny Harman got the cam business and Cliff Collins took the ignition side of it. Kenny ground cams here in San Diego for many years specializing in motorcycle cams from what I understand. At some point in time Shieffer bought out Collins and started selling the Mags as Schieffer units. These were basically identical except they used the H&C dual coil style rotor (without the second coil brush) and a cap adapter to increase the clearance for the larger style rotor and to take a stack type cap not the crab style. At some point the magneto housings went from sand cast pieces to die cast. There were basically the same except the die cast ones had spring type hold downs for the cap instead of the screw down type the crab caps used. The main magneto shaft was also longer to accomodate the new rotor. Scheiffer also made coils potted in epoxy.

Shieffer ended up selling the magneto stuff to Cirello magneto. I used to buy replacement parts from Cirello in 1989/90 and they had ALL of the tooling, misc spare parts etc etc etc. Cirello sold all of it to a guy here in San Diego who used to work for Collins and Scheiffer who was going to produce point coil ignitions from the original tooling. He had come up with a conversion that kept the look of the mag without all the issues they had. He sold the stuff to Nostalgic Hot Rod Products in Orange County, as far as I know they have it now.'

[all american boy]

Cierello mag's.THAT we knew about in the 80's in the south bay.


I have a soft spot in my heart for those twin coil/twin point ignition.


When I saw that first engine with two coils on the front on a Hot Rod cover I



said to myself 'That's a good idea!'


Nice smart low budget thing to do.Love that stuff!


It evolved into MSD multi spark ignitions.Somebody was paying attention!


Direct Connection 'Big Book' just raved about those things in the 80's.


So they had to be good!

[Pete]

...

[all american boy]

Thank you.


What are 'inverted flanks'?



'54 Hot Rod Annual Ford section says H&C had an 'excellent dyno' and an


air flow meter.


Article is down on alloy rocker arms for OHV Ford V8's(Y Blocks).


Says they deflect and make noise and do not increase RPM's.


Says LIGHTENED valves do.Studebaker article and Karol Miller of Texas say


lightened stock rockers do increase RPM.


So.Lighten the rockers and the valves but don't use early alloy rockers.


We are using these Hot Rod articles to build 430 because there does not



seem to be any factory info like Chrysler had in the 80's.Direct Connection



books.If there are Ford Motorsports books on MEL we like to know about



them.

[Pete]

...

[KULTULZ]

We are using these Hot Rod articles to build 430 because there does not seem to be any factory info like Chrysler had in the 80's.Direct Connection books.If there are Ford Motorsports books on MEL we like to know about them.

The MEL was introduced the same year (1958) as FORD went into compliance with the AMA ban. Very little HP development other than 1958 MERC DIV.

Holman-Moody raced the 59 J-BIRD on the NASCAR CIRCUIT. When FORD came back into NASCAR in 1960, it was with the STARLINER and FE. The MEL was delegated to heavy pass car usage.

GO HERE - http://ford-mel-engine.com/

[all american boy]

'sides of the lobes are concave'


Thank you Pete.Will answer KULTULZ in next post.


Sounds like what Direct Connection Big Book called a 'hook' cam.


We never crossed the line to roller cams.Too much money.


We used a .509 lift hydraulic.Top of the hydraulics in DC cams.


No valve to piston worries.


A big engine in a little car puts you way ahead.Didn't need to do things to



the nth degree.



Sounds like H&C 'moved on up' to the high dollar stuff.


What's a 'radius lifter'?

[all american boy]

Thank you KULTULZ


' Very little HP development'


Good.A blank sheet.Just the way we like it.A challenge.


We really like the 430 for a couple of reasons.


It's very like the 440 we know oh so well.


Came out the same year.At least the B or RB did.The new lightweight



casting engines.


Distributor up front and has a 'valley pan' or 'turkey roaster'.


That's what we called them in Mopar world.


So.It's a Ford version of a Chrysler 440.Perfect!


We'll get that thing to go!

[Pete]

...

[all american boy]

'They have a 2 inch single plane radius on the face and a slot in the side to mate with a guide key inserted in the lifter bore.'


Sounds like something for the 'tear down engine' crowd.


Guess that includes us now.


If we are going to have easy access to engine in tube frame I guess we will



have to 'walk the walk'.


Ran across another possible idea


Drill small hole straight down the middle through through the lifter.


It lets the lifter and cam lobes get more oil.


Sounds good so far.

[rotorwrench]

I wouldn't mess with that hard spot in the center of a follower or lifter. Once the hardness wears through, it fails quickly. It would also be very hard to drill a hole there.

[dmsfrr]

Originally Posted by all american boy

. . . .
Ran across another possible idea
Drill small hole straight down the middle through through the lifter.
It lets the lifter and cam lobes get more oil.
Sounds good so far.

Originally Posted by rotorwrench

I wouldn't mess with that hard spot in the center of a follower or lifter. Once the hardness wears through, it fails quickly. It would also be very hard to drill a hole there.

Can't be a good idea.
.

[all american boy]

'wouldn't mess with that hard spot in the center of a follower or lifter'


Normally that is good advice.


For a 'maximum effort' like dry lakes car where goal is to make two runs and



you get that record it works.


That is where the 'engine teardown' part comes in.


If it disintegrates along the way then it is 'Hello engine teardown time.'


Hot Rod books mention rehardening lifters.


You are running along that 'ragged edge' with lightening valves and



rockers too.


We used to call it 'hand grenading' the engine.


The machinist down the street won't blink an eye about drilling lifters.


He has been there and back with that stuff.Worked for Shelby in El



Segundo.

[Pete]

...

[all american boy]

'The proper way to lube the lobes and lifter face is, drill the
cam core and the lobes and pressurize it.'


First time I have ever heard that! Makes sense.


Get ready for me to jump subjects here!


Hot Rod 1959 Annual has explanation of 'new angle-top cylinder block



engines' (MEL's).


Goes on to describe 'turbulence' with piston top in clear crisp language.


These books from 50's and early '60's are SO GOOD!