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Old 02-03-2021, 04:06 AM   #1
4 MAINS V8
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Default 35 phaeton top

Could anyone please tell me how the gypsy wings fasten to the rear bow support when the side screens are fitted. I have the poppers etc, but cannot see how they both clip on together, what am I missing. Also does anyone have any Le baron bonny instructions for fitting a top they can pm me. Many thanks.
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Old 02-03-2021, 11:48 AM   #2
Viv W
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Default Re: 35 phaeton top

Hi,
I would also appreciate a copy of LBB fitting instructions too, if anyone has them.
I need to do my top and side screens with gypsy wings, so any pictures and measurements would be appreciated too.
I will try and add some pictures I found on the internet
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Old 02-03-2021, 01:48 PM   #3
DavidG
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Default Re: 35 phaeton top

Please enlighten us with something a little more proximate to Ford's original nomenclature, such as "side curtains", if that's what you are referring to as "gypsy wings"; those terms and "poppers" are not in widespread use on this side of the pond.
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Old 02-03-2021, 03:08 PM   #4
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Default Re: 35 phaeton top

I'd like to try to help too but am not understanding the question yet.

I have a '36 Phaeton that's in most of those shots.

That group of photos were something I put up a few years ago. In fact that's my dear old Dad (henryat1140) on the outside of the car in photo 1!
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Old 02-03-2021, 04:21 PM   #5
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Default Re: 35 phaeton top

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Originally Posted by VeryTangled View Post
I'd like to try to help too but am not understanding the question yet.

I have a '36 Phaeton that's in most of those shots.

That group of photos were something I put up a few years ago. In fact that's my dear old Dad (henryat1140) on the outside of the car in photo 1!
Thank you. Very Tangled. Tried to post photo originally. The part I am referring to is in photo 4. Cartouche, refers to the sides of the”rear curtain” as gypsy wings they are fastened to the rear bow/iron by three “durable Dot snaps. Ref Ford 1935/6 book. (poppers, my word) my question is how is the small side curtain also attached at this point when in use. Hope this makes it clearer.
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Old 02-03-2021, 04:33 PM   #6
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Default Re: 35 phaeton top

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Here is an enlargement of Photo 4 that you referred to. These are great shots of the interior of a 1935 Ford Phaeton.
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Old 02-03-2021, 04:56 PM   #7
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Default Re: 35 phaeton top

Hi Everyone, Let me try a few of these pics.

Keep in mind that unless your top is 80+ years old, it's been replaced. Ours has been done at least twice.

When I did the top, the curtains wouldn't work, or maybe they were never right when we got the car. Our upholsterer modified the piece you are asking about to work with the top. So these pics represent some bastardization of what it should really be, but hopefully they point you in the correct direction.

I would propose the side curtains are not a one-size-fits-all proposition, they are tailored to the vehicle if they're to fit correctly.

Also notice in pic 1 of my car the pin that goes through the top irons is setup to go inside to out (pic 1 in post #2). The pic that mercman just enlarged is very likely a more correct way and the pin is going outside to in. I don't have the truth on which way it goes.

I also just noticed that pic 1 post 2 is before the new top was put on. The side curtain piece was setup to attach incorrectly, the back edge 3 snaps are snapping onto the top. It should be under the top as in mercman's enlargement. The area is a 3 piece sandwich, first the curtain goes onto the top iron, then the top (shown being unsnapped) snaps onto the curtain. ...I think.







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Old 02-04-2021, 05:15 AM   #8
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Default Re: 35 phaeton top

Thanks you all for your input. I have managed to post a photo of the area in question. The part marked B is fastened to the rear bow/iron with three dot fasteners. How is the part marked A together with B attached at this point.There appears to be six female durable dot fasteners in total and only three male parts to attach them to on the bow. My original top was a bit of “make do” affair, so is no good as a pattern.
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Old 02-04-2021, 03:19 PM   #9
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Default Re: 35 phaeton top

The top gets the female dots.

The iron get the males.

Without the curtains, these are connected.

The corner curtain gets hermaphrodite/hybrid ones that are female on the underside for snapping onto the irons but without the typical round button backing (having trouble finding a pic). The backing is a male. This hybrid fastener makes the curtain a middle layer. The top will attach to the male side of the curtain when it is installed between the iron and the top.

The curtain goes on the irons, the top snaps onto the curtain. So in layers, it's irons, curtain, then top. At least that's the way ours is configured today.

If you can imaging removing the screw threads and putting the two pictures together that's the fastener. It has the two sides shown in my third picture.





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Old 02-04-2021, 03:35 PM   #10
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Default Re: 35 phaeton top

Very tangled. Thank you thats the answer i was looking for. It all makes sense now. Don’t make any difference how many photos you look at these fine details aren’t always obvious.
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Old 02-04-2021, 04:01 PM   #11
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Default Re: 35 phaeton top

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Originally Posted by 4 MAINS V8 View Post
Very tangled. Thank you thats the answer i was looking for. It all makes sense now. Don’t make any difference how many photos you look at these fine details aren’t always obvious.
4 Mains V8 (BTW what is that? See Below...), You are very welcome. I think it's cool that you're in the UK and I'm in 'the swamp' and we can help each other with our projects and continued knowledge.

I've just realized another way to explain it is in your circled "B" area the curtain is underneath/between the top and the iron/bow. Because it sits between it needs both male and female sides. The top and irons have just one or the other but that curtain is designed to sit between once the 'normal operation' has been disconnected.

I'm pretty sure that photo was taken at the Hershey swap meet. I don't remember the car but it sure looks like, as Kiwi Tony would say, a wee beauty. There are so many variations of Washington Blue, it is a universe of its own.

From 4 MAINS V8's profile...
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DAGENHAM BUILT 1935 MODEL 48 PHAETON ALSO OWN MODEL 60 WITH ORIGINAL 2 EXHAUST PORT ENGINE 4 MAINS V8!
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Old 02-04-2021, 04:26 PM   #12
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Default Re: 35 phaeton top

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Originally Posted by mercman from oz View Post
These are great shots of the interior of a 1935 Ford Phaeton.
Even a blind pig finds an acorn every once in a while.

Your "shutter" skills are above average, my friend. You're the Ansel Adams of cool cars, trucks and anything in-between. And what you don't snap you grab and save!

I want copies of your hard drive, and Don Rogers'!
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Old 02-04-2021, 05:07 PM   #13
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Default Re: 35 phaeton top

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Originally Posted by Viv W View Post
Hi, I would also appreciate a copy of LBB fitting instructions too... Viv
I have no LBB fitting instructions. But I do have experience with the top of one particular 36 Phaeton.

A '35-36 Phaeton includes five pieces for each side of the car, ten mirrored pieces. There are also eight rods that fit into the doors.

After fitting the eight metal rods (good luck their curve and shape is important as well as their fit into the door hole/socket), the easiest four canvas/clear pieces to figure out are the door 'windows.' If there's a hole/pass-through in one, it's for hand signaling so that's the drivers front and you can move on from there!

Each side of the car now has a long 'cigar' (8ft x 6in) that fits above the door 'windows.' Front/back orientation may be challenging or not obvious, but at the front I think they attach to the header bow. They have metal hangers that fit around the top irons. I surmise they tuck under the top but outside of the door windows, think rain sheeting down. Unfortunately opening a door requires tucking the 'door window' back under the long 'cigar' to get back to shedding the rain. Not sure I'm on track here.

The front 'spat' that fits over the windshield post should have a hole that the windshield pivot 'wingnut' passes through. With mine I also have to undo and raise the top windshield bow a bit to get it snapped and tucked in.

The rear-most piece I hope is covered above.

I give all that about an 80% chance of being accurate.
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Old 02-05-2021, 06:39 AM   #14
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Default Re: 35 phaeton toppppp

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Originally Posted by VeryTangled View Post
4 Mains V8 (BTW what is that? See Below...),

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CURRENTLY RESTORING
DAGENHAM BUILT 1935 MODEL 48 PHAETON ALSO OWN MODEL 60 WITH ORIGINAL 2 EXHAUST PORT ENGINE 4 MAINS V8!
In the UK vehicles were taxed using a formula called the RAC HP rating, the model 48 (85hp US) engine was rated at 30hp. This car with its high tax rating was difficult to sell, only 47 UK built phaetons were sold. To cut tax costs, a smaller V8 engine was introduced in England in 1935/6 and it was fitted together with appropriate gearing into the model 48’s body and given the designation of model 60. This engine was rated at 22hp, (60hp US) amounting to a considerable road tax saving. Not available in the US, it was mainly designated for the European market, the engine was constructed with tin sides a four main bearing crank, 15 stud pump in head cylinder head and electric fuel pump, the front two and rear two cylinders on each bank used siamese exhaust ports, resulting in a two exhaust port manifold, on each side of the block.
Apparently this engine proved unreliable, due to cracking around the valves and Ford subsequently retrofitted the later 17 stud 60hp(US) engine, that you are more familiar with. Very few components interchanged with the earlier engine, due to the different valve orientation, manifolding, camshaft and water pumps.
Incredibly the model 60 that i own, still retains it original four mains engine, although not a runner, due to corrosion in the incredibly thin aluminium heads. These engines are super rare, personally I only know of one, fitted to a French Matford that appears to be a runner.
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Old 02-05-2021, 12:46 PM   #15
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Default Re: 35 phaeton top

Here we go.
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Old 02-11-2021, 01:41 AM   #16
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Default Re: 35 phaeton top

This is a thread from 2013 with the Euro V8

1935 Ford Model 60 Cabriolet with the 22 h.p. European V8 engine

https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showthread.php?t=91248
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Old 02-11-2021, 02:51 AM   #17
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Default Re: 35 phaeton top

That cabriolet belongs to my pal Roger who lives 5 miles away. My avatar is the sister vehicle, Model 60 Coupe De Luxe. Both had their engines replaced in 1937 with tin-side V8-60s like those in the US; both inlet manifolds are stamped with a July 1937 date. There is a fellow in Dover with a Fordor, also retrofitted with a tin-side, wh is currently trying to record all surviving Model 60 and 62 cars.
4mainsV8's car was once owned by a founder member of our Model T club, who is still going strong at 91 and has a V8 Pilot.

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Old 03-31-2021, 01:52 PM   #18
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Default Re: 35 phaeton top

Hi Everyone, Our fine and long-time contributor mercman from oz has a well earned reputation for having an eye for taking and collecting interesting and amazing photos.

Here's one of my car he got when I was at a meet a couple of years ago. Look carefully through the wind wing, in the background you see the subject of this thread in the installed position.

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