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Old 03-26-2020, 09:15 PM   #1
JimNNN
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Default '65 T-Bird fuel pump

Hi folks. I believe my fuel pump conked out today. To make sure, I thought I'd check some things out. I disconnected the line to the carb, and very little to no gas is getting through, though there is a spurt now and then, but hardly any as time goes on.



Just put a new metal fuel line from the tank (which is NEAR NEW) to the fuel pump. The fuel pump doesn't look all that old, but I don't know. I checked carefully and there are no kinks in the new line, AND the car ran good for 15 to 20 minutes after the new line was installed, so I don't think that's the issue.



The engine (and presumably pump) are a 390, but out of (I think) a '67 Mercury. It's a 2 bbl carb. The fuel pump looks just like the one Mac's has listed for a '64 to 66' T-Bird, though. Here's what Mac's has:











Question: Is that elongated enclosure at the bottom of the pump a filter of some sort? (My Mercury 352 fuel pump has no such enclosure.) If it is, in fact, a filter in the pump, could the filter in the pump be clogged, and if so, how could I unclog it???


I checked the filter I have between the pump and the carb and it seems fine, or at least clear enough to let gas through. Thanks for any help.



Jim
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Old 03-26-2020, 09:27 PM   #2
miker98038
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Default Re: '65 T-Bird fuel pump

I'm pretty sure that's a filter, and the first place to check. Can you change it with the pump in place?
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Old 03-26-2020, 09:35 PM   #3
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Default Re: '65 T-Bird fuel pump

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Originally Posted by miker98038 View Post
I'm pretty sure that's a filter, and the first place to check. Can you change it with the pump in place?



Hi Mike. The enclosure is pretty accessible, but there is no obvious way to get it off. I've tried twisting it off, but that doesn't seem to work. No obvious threaded connection. I don't know if my fuel pump is old or new, but it doesn't have much more residue on it than the example in the picture. I'm kind of guessing it was changed out when the gas tank was, which wasn't all that many miles ago (but done by a previous owner, so I can't say when.)
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Old 03-26-2020, 09:46 PM   #4
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Default Re: '65 T-Bird fuel pump

It unscrews just like an oil filter. There is a filter element inside that is replaceable.
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Old 03-26-2020, 10:22 PM   #5
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Default Re: '65 T-Bird fuel pump

It doesn't have the threaded connection shown at the top of the illustration?

I've not seen one but any chance or a bolt at the bottom?
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Old 03-26-2020, 10:58 PM   #6
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Default Re: '65 T-Bird fuel pump

No bolt on the bottom. Use a Snap On strap type oil filter wrench. It will come right off.
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Old 03-27-2020, 02:12 AM   #7
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Default Re: '65 T-Bird fuel pump

Yes, I think it will come off. I tried loosening it with my hands but it wouldn't budge. I need the wrench as estout81 said.



I read the shop manual and the pump has an odd interaction with the carb. When the float stops the flow of gas into the carb, the pump reroutes the pump pressure of the pumped gas through the filter. Or something. We'll see what's going on tomorrow.
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Old 03-27-2020, 04:29 AM   #8
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Default Re: '65 T-Bird fuel pump

There's a special socket made to remove the canister on that pump. I have one somewhere. Haven't used it in 25 years.
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Old 03-27-2020, 12:39 PM   #9
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Default Re: '65 T-Bird fuel pump

I noticed that there are three indentations in the bottom of the filter canister. Do you recall if the socket engages those indentations, Lowrider?


I think I'll try the oil filter wrench approach, as I have a bunch of 1/8 inch thick sheets of adhesive rubber to take up some slack of the smaller size canister. We'll see.
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Old 03-27-2020, 02:38 PM   #10
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Default Re: '65 T-Bird fuel pump

The indentations are for the filter tool. If it has the original canister it will also look like it has a pair of stacked gears on the bottom (an homage to the Ford Rotunda building and Ford's Rotunda brand of replacement/service parts). If it does, try to save it if you can, repaint it white and apply the "FoMoCo" fuel filter decal that's in all the decal kits with the long dimension of the decal wrapping around the can so that the text reads from the closed end of the can, and the decal centered between the crenelations and raised part of the can below the threads. There are pictures of it in Vintage Thunderbird Club International's 1964-1966 Original Factory Specifications manual.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 65-66 Fuel Filter Decal.JPG (33.9 KB, 10 views)
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Last edited by alt63bird; 03-27-2020 at 02:44 PM.
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Old 03-27-2020, 05:58 PM   #11
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Default Re: '65 T-Bird fuel pump

There are as many filter cap wrenches as there are different filters for both oil and fuel. Number of flutes and diameter of the fluted area is needed to find one that will fit. Modern stuff is mostly metric now for diameters. With only three flutes, that one is odd by todays standards. My old 64 T-bird had one like the illustration attached to post #10 above. I never take any part of a system as being good to go until it is checked and that includes new parts.

I would disconnect the line at the pump and try to pressurize the tank a bit and see if you get fuel flow through the new line. If you do, try to rigg up a feed to a fuel container below the pump and see if it will pull fuel up out of the container when you crank it. There is always a way to test stuff and see where the problem is.

I've had weird things happen like a plastic cap rolling around in the gas tank that would draw up to the stand pipe & block it off. After the engine quit, the cap would fall off and the thing would run again for a while. You just never know whats going to happen. Another thing to check is if there are any flex hoses in the system. They can get a pin hole and draw air into the line but if they are high enough above the tank level, they won't leak any fuel when the engine isn't running. Vacuum draw systems can do this kind of stuff.
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Old 03-27-2020, 08:52 PM   #12
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Default Re: '65 T-Bird fuel pump

Thanks for the input everyone. Here's what I did today:

-Removed canister and checked fuel pump filter...looked very clean inside, almost new.

-New fuel line came in two parts - tank to front wheel well and wheel well to pump. Disconnected line at front wheel well and there was a good flow and supply of gas, so line good from front wheel back to tank. Blew out new line section from wheel well to pump and it seemed like it was free of obstructions. Checked short hose that connects forwardmost new metal line to pump, and it was free of obstructions.

-Connected all of that back up and disconnected output from pump (at the pump) that feeds fuel to carb. Not a drop out of the fuel pump output when I cranked the engine so I figured it's the pump. I took the pump off and will compare it to the one I'm picking up at the store tomorrow.
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Old 03-31-2020, 01:35 AM   #13
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Default Re: '65 T-Bird fuel pump

Okay. Got the new pump in and the car's working fine now. I knew it was the pump once I compared the new unit with the one I took out: The new pump would create a suction at the intake by working the rocker arm, while the previous pump made no suction at all.



I was surprised (and a little apprehensive), however, that merely cranking the engine pushed hardly any gas (if any) out the output port (which I left disconnected til I made sure the pump worked.) I thought, Oh no! But with a gas iv and running the engine from a can the gas sprayed out of the pump output port big time.



As I said, the previous pump didn't look all that old. And the filter in it looked as clean as a whistle. Guessing it was changed about the time the tank was...within the last few years. I'm really hoping I don't need to change these fuel pumps every few years or few thousand miles. They aren't very accessible on the FE motor. The one on my Mercury was a pain, and I could only get to the one on the T-Bird by removing the oil filter and oil filter adapter fitting. Either that or take the power steering pump and A/C stuff off.

Last edited by JimNNN; 03-31-2020 at 01:47 AM.
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Old 03-31-2020, 09:29 AM   #14
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Default Re: '65 T-Bird fuel pump

there is good possibility it was gasoline of the new era.the new pump hopefully has alcohol resistant diaphram.
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Old 03-31-2020, 11:24 AM   #15
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Default Re: '65 T-Bird fuel pump

Good point, 54vicky. I've been able to avoid alcohol infused gas for my old cars pretty reliably around here, which I find ironic given I live in Nebraska (which is kind of a mecca for ethanol/ethanol production.) I don't know if I'm hearing this correctly, but it sounds like people in places like California have no choice but to use ethanol. I don't know if that's a result of environmental politics or what, but there are probably a half a dozen stations near me that sell and even minimally advertise alcohol-free gas. Hopefully that will make my pump last longer (???)


I think outsourcing auto parts production out of the country doesn't help either. I don't know where it was made, but my new pump cost me under $35 so I wouldn't be surprised if it was made in China.
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Old 03-31-2020, 12:06 PM   #16
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Default Re: '65 T-Bird fuel pump

Here in TX a person has to know the stations that sell it. There is a web site for this that is related to the use of auto gas mixed with avgas for aircraft that lists the companies that generally try to source some fuel with no methanol. They update it on a regular basis so that aircraft owners can take advantage of it.
https://www.pure-gas.org/
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Old 04-01-2020, 10:51 AM   #17
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Default Re: '65 T-Bird fuel pump

You might want to check your oil level in the pan to see if it's high or smells a little like fuel. If the diaphragm in your bad pump was ruptured, it could have dumped fuel into the crankcase.


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Old 04-02-2020, 12:41 PM   #18
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Thumbs up Re: '65 T-Bird fuel pump

Ethanol laced gasoline is a sham. It was thought originally would better the system but did more damage than good, including component degradation and lessened fuel mileage.

One thing to remember if stuck using it is not to uses cellulose based filter medias as the fuel will break it down.
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Old 04-02-2020, 12:55 PM   #19
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Default Re: '65 T-Bird fuel pump

Quote:
Here in TX a person has to know the stations that sell it. There is a web site for this that is related to the use of auto gas mixed with avgas for aircraft that lists the companies that generally try to source some fuel with no methanol. They update it on a regular basis so that aircraft owners can take advantage of it.
https://www.pure-gas.org/

That's a great site. I've seen it before and it's a real benefit to old car people.



Quote:
You might want to check your oil level in the pan to see if it's high or smells a little like fuel. If the diaphragm in your bad pump was ruptured, it could have dumped fuel into the crankcase.
Sal

Thanks Sal. I hadn't thought of that.



Quote:
Ethanol laced gasoline is a sham. It was thought originally would better the system but did more damage than good, including component degradation and lessened fuel mileage.

And then there was the whole thing that ethanol took as much energy to produce as it provided as an end use product. I haven't heard much about that in the last several years, though...could it be that a big profitable industry is suppressing information like that? Not making any accusations, but it makes you wonder.
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Old 04-02-2020, 01:17 PM   #20
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Thumbs up Re: '65 T-Bird fuel pump

Quote:
Originally Posted by JimNNN View Post

And then there was the whole thing that ethanol took as much energy to produce as it provided as an end use product. I haven't heard much about that in the last several years, though...could it be that a big profitable industry is suppressing information like that? Not making any accusations, but it makes you wonder.
Think more in the line of the FEDERAL GOVT. Business as usual, the best government money can buy.

Can you imagine the size of the voting bloc that would be p!ssed if that sugar was cut? Look at all the FEDERAL money than went to grain farmers during the last CHI-COM trade deal stand-off. We are doing the same as the CHI-COM is being called for.
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