The Ford Barn

RockHillWill · 09-02-2011, 06:34 AM

I have a question just for conversation, I guess.

The new judging standards suggest that in the November '30 time frame the latest frame has this number 6 bracket INSTALLED.

I have the archive drawing for that frame and it shows the holes, but NO bracket. I have seen (7) frames with the holes, but NO brackets, I have seen 3-4 frames with the brackets in place. I have not been able to locate an engineering release indicating the application of this #6 bracket.

My question is: Are we going to be judged incorrectly if we have one of those frames, but without the brackets?

I bring this up, because if Mr. Ford was so interested in cost savings that he used 9/32" round rod and 'rolled' the threads (to save that 1/32" material on the rods), and gave instructions not to overspray the edges of painted body areas, why would he spend the money to put these brackets, rivets and the related labor and put them on ALL frames.

My first thought is that this bracket could have been assembled immediately prior to the body being dropped on, and used ONLY on the slant window cars.

Any thoughts

Kevin in NJ · 09-02-2011, 06:51 AM

I do not have the new revision of the JS yet, but I do know that the #6 brackets were only used on slant window bodies. This would imply they were assembled on the line just like the running board brackets. The rivets would be unfinished and I would guess they would be dipped gloss paint like the running board brackets.

A quick example of a frame with the holes and no bracket is right here and posted in the last day:

https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showthread.php?t=44769

For those that are learning it is easy to spot a frame ready for the #6 bracket. Locate the rear running board bracket. It has a larger hole with triangle pattern of rivet holes around it. The running board will have a single rivet on top and two lower.
Just in front of the running board bracket you will find 3 hole in a triangle pattern. Two on top and one on the bottom. It is easy to spot even on the little ebay pictures sometimes. These frames are all over the place as I see them regularly. What has amazed me is the number of VERY experienced A guys that were unaware of the #6 bracket back 10 years ago.

Based on some discussions quite a while ago I thought these details were going to be included in the latest revisions.

Steve Plucker · 09-02-2011, 07:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kevin in NJ

I do not have the new revision of the JS yet, but I do know that the #6 brackets were only used on slant window bodies. This would imply they were assembled on the line just like the running board brackets. The rivets would be unfinished and I would guess they would be dipped gloss paint like the running board brackets.

A quick example of a frame with the holes and no bracket is right here and posted in the last day:

https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showthread.php?t=44769

For those that are learning it is easy to spot a frame ready for the #6 bracket. Locate the rear running board bracket. It has a larger hole with triangle pattern of rivet holes around it. The running board will have a single rivet on top and two lower.
Just in front of the running board bracket you will find 3 hole in a triangle pattern. Two on top and one on the bottom. It is easy to spot even on the little ebay pictures sometimes. These frames are all over the place as I see them regularly. What has amazed me is the number of VERY experienced A guys that were unaware of the #6 bracket back 10 years ago.

Based on some discussions quite a while ago I thought these details were going to be included in the latest revisions.

I to thought a lot of things were going to be in there also!

Pluck

Marco Tahtaras · 09-02-2011, 08:38 AM

Hi Will,

Do you have a different version than I do? Read the frame section A-5005-D starting at paragraph 2, line 4.

RockHillWill · 09-02-2011, 10:44 AM

Hello Marco,

I do not have a different version, what I still have is a little confusion, perhaps due to the order in which this information is written.

In the paragraph #1 above , it states than in Nov. '30 the 4th style (A-5005-D) was introduced, etc. The last sentence in that paragraph #1 states that: "a new #6 body bolt bracket WAS ATTACHED.....with three rivets". The second paragraph begins with the comment "Beginning in December '30---holes for spare tire bracket...etc.

The next sentence explains that in April '31 this new frame was phased in for all cars....and goes on to explain at that point that the brackets were applied as needed for use on the Slant Window cars.

Because of the first paragraph statement it reads to me that at least at the start of the new frame the brackets were installed.

You and I have been having this related frame discussion for some time, and my frame is in this time period, and I want to make sure that I understanding this correctly.

Just wondering!

Marco Tahtaras · 09-02-2011, 11:50 AM

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

In my opinion it states quite clearly the usage. Yes, that frame will be used on the Victoria as stated. Of course since I worded all that stuff it's very clear to me!!!

09-02-2011, 06:51 AM	#2
Kevin in NJ Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: South East NJ Posts: 3,398	Re: #6 bracket frame holes I do not have the new revision of the JS yet, but I do know that the #6 brackets were only used on slant window bodies. This would imply they were assembled on the line just like the running board brackets. The rivets would be unfinished and I would guess they would be dipped gloss paint like the running board brackets. A quick example of a frame with the holes and no bracket is right here and posted in the last day: https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showthread.php?t=44769 For those that are learning it is easy to spot a frame ready for the #6 bracket. Locate the rear running board bracket. It has a larger hole with triangle pattern of rivet holes around it. The running board will have a single rivet on top and two lower. Just in front of the running board bracket you will find 3 hole in a triangle pattern. Two on top and one on the bottom. It is easy to spot even on the little ebay pictures sometimes. These frames are all over the place as I see them regularly. What has amazed me is the number of VERY experienced A guys that were unaware of the #6 bracket back 10 years ago. Based on some discussions quite a while ago I thought these details were going to be included in the latest revisions.

09-02-2011, 08:38 AM	#4
Marco Tahtaras Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 3,099	Re: #6 bracket frame holes Hi Will, Do you have a different version than I do? Read the frame section A-5005-D starting at paragraph 2, line 4. __________________ http://www.abarnyard.com/

09-02-2011, 10:44 AM	#5
RockHillWill Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Rock Hill, S.C. Posts: 985	Re: #6 bracket frame holes Hello Marco, I do not have a different version, what I still have is a little confusion, perhaps due to the order in which this information is written. In the paragraph #1 above , it states than in Nov. '30 the 4th style (A-5005-D) was introduced, etc. The last sentence in that paragraph #1 states that: "a new #6 body bolt bracket WAS ATTACHED.....with three rivets". The second paragraph begins with the comment "Beginning in December '30---holes for spare tire bracket...etc. The next sentence explains that in April '31 this new frame was phased in for all cars....and goes on to explain at that point that the brackets were applied as needed for use on the Slant Window cars. Because of the first paragraph statement it reads to me that at least at the start of the new frame the brackets were installed. You and I have been having this related frame discussion for some time, and my frame is in this time period, and I want to make sure that I understanding this correctly. Just wondering! __________________ Uncle Bud says "too soon old, too late smart!"

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09-02-2011, 06:34 AM	#1
RockHillWill Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Rock Hill, S.C. Posts: 985	#6 bracket frame holes I have a question just for conversation, I guess. The new judging standards suggest that in the November '30 time frame the latest frame has this number 6 bracket INSTALLED. I have the archive drawing for that frame and it shows the holes, but NO bracket. I have seen (7) frames with the holes, but NO brackets, I have seen 3-4 frames with the brackets in place. I have not been able to locate an engineering release indicating the application of this #6 bracket. My question is: Are we going to be judged incorrectly if we have one of those frames, but without the brackets? I bring this up, because if Mr. Ford was so interested in cost savings that he used 9/32" round rod and 'rolled' the threads (to save that 1/32" material on the rods), and gave instructions not to overspray the edges of painted body areas, why would he spend the money to put these brackets, rivets and the related labor and put them on ALL frames. My first thought is that this bracket could have been assembled immediately prior to the body being dropped on, and used ONLY on the slant window cars. Any thoughts __________________ Uncle Bud says "too soon old, too late smart!"

09-02-2011, 11:50 AM	#6
Marco Tahtaras Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 3,099	Re: #6 bracket frame holes Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) In my opinion it states quite clearly the usage. Yes, that frame will be used on the Victoria as stated. Of course since I worded all that stuff it's very clear to me!!! __________________ http://www.abarnyard.com/