Who's running a Marvel/Schebler carb?

[theHIGHLANDER]

Anybody using one on their A? I have it on my CCPU and can't find the smallest measure of fault with it. I know, useless without a picture, but maybe I'll find time to load one later.

[Jon-Ohio]

I use one on my 30 coupe. I like better than the Zenith or Tilly.

Jon in Ohio

[Mitch//pa]

i have one under my seat.... it ran great more power but i only use it for backup in case of breakdown because of the look...

[abachman3]

I'm running one on my '30 Tudor. I believe that it runs better than the Zenith that I previously used. Been using it on this car for more than 4 years.

[29Otis]

I run one on my 29 AA, it runs better than the Zenith that was on there before.

[[email protected]]

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I am running one in a 30 Coupe. I have played with Zeniths and Tillys and started to run Zenith Model B's to get just a bit of more power for hills. I have picked up several MS carbs at swaps but dismissed them as a touring carb and never tried one. Then I picked up a NOS Marvel Schebler brand new in a Firestone box with a $7.50 price tag at an antique store once that had the instructions, etc. all with it in the box. It was way too nice to put on a car so I cleaned up another one that I had and put it on my car. I was impressed with the big increase in power and top end. It never has a tendency to stall and will idle down to a tick. If you turn off the fuel shut off it will run for a long time as it has a bigger float bowl.

In talking about MS carbs with folks it was discussed by some that by a few short years after the last Model A was made, all of the newer cars where a lot more powerful and speedier. If you were one of the "hangers on" to your Model A in 1935 and beyond you were suddenly on the faster roads with faster cars. So you then went to the Western Autos, Sears, Firestones and started to buy your "speed equipment" to try to keep up with the modern faster traffic. That is when you could try out a Simmons carb or a Tilly or even the Marvel..

Some of the replacement spare parts are again showing up for these old MS at Renners....

[Patrick L.]

I have several for parts and could only get one completed, but, I'd to be able to complete a couple more.
I've always liked the Tillotson's [ and still do], but, the Marvels do run better than the Zeniths or Tilly's.

[Dick M]

Google Renner's Corner. They have a complete inventory for the Marvel/Schebler carb.

[duke36]

I have one on my car; it starts happy at GAV 1/2 turn open and runs well at approx. 1/4 turn open though it leaks a little at shut down. May have to check the float level, etc as I've never had it apart. Perhaps I should run it down at shut off as some suggest. MPG seems to be a little less than the Zeniths I've had but it appears to achieve more power.
If any one has an instruction sheet or section view diagram for the Marvel or Allstate they could post, that would be helpful.

[Richard Redmond]

I run one on my 1929 roadster despite having a beautiful, restored Zenith. Starting is very good. My mileage each year is very low so I have only an intuitive feeling that performance is just fine.

[My1930ModelA]

I too run one on my 30 Town Sedan. I rebuilt it with parts from Renner's Corner and the car starts and runs good, and no leaks from the carb.

[coatings03]

I'm interested in buying this carb for my speedster build. Do all models fit the stock intake.

Jim m

[H. L. Chauvin]

FWIW:

Have one (1) original that came with my 1930 Coupe in 1958.

Former mechanic owner never cleaned it or dismantled it; and neither did I ..... it never saw ethanol gas ...... still have it, as mentioned often, for a spare.

One can make fast turns or stop on a dime, and because of the bowl configuration, the engine never dies because of flooding or fuel starvation with sudden stops.

In stop and go traffic, over several entire summers, with my brother and I driving to and from work every day for about 18 miles per day, we averaged 28 miles per gallon, (at the then high price of 20 cents per gallon), never exceeding 45 mph while using Amoco, non-leaded white gasoline.

Most delicate carburetors of all makes throughout history became less efficient when un-skilled owners and mechanics tried to clean and service them.

Some Model A owners do not like the looks of having a Marvel installed on their cars.

Some Marvels on ebay and at swap meets have been tampered with until they are not as efficient as originals; however, in their day, Marvel carburetor replacements were a blessing to be able to afford coupled with fuel economy when only the poorest of the poor people drove Model A's in the 1940's and 1950's ...... a middle class worker would not like to be caught dead in a Model A back then ..... now only the rich can afford them. LOL

[Synchro909]

I have one of those carburettors on the shelf but I've never used it. After the comments here, I'm tempted to put it on. I run a 50+ years old Stromberg on 2 of my As and while they work very well, they don't look anywhere near original. Even people who have never seen a Model A engine comment on it.
Just how good are these carbs? I can't imagine them being as good to drive as the downdraft but I'd be prepared to sacrifice a little.

[[email protected]]

Here is the info that I got in this original Firestone box that has the Brand New Marvel Schebler A & B Carb. I see the instruction paper that came with it was dated 9-47 so I am assuming that was the date that Firestone was offering this as a replacement carburetor. A simple cardboard flange gasket was also in this box.
MS Carbureter Box.jpg

MS Carburetor 1_2.jpg

MS Carburetor 2_2.jpg

[1930artdeco]

I just bought one of these as a curiosity and will rebuild it over the winter. I just want to try it out. Are they hard to rebuild? Any quirks?

Mike

[duke36]

Thanks for posting the info. This matches my carb. Ordered some parts from Dave @ Renners who also provided helpful info. on parts installation. The double ball valve looks like the older grose jets aftermarket for the Zeniths but won't know until dis- assembly if that is leaking. .
Does any one's carb GAV (brass) housing have a fiber washer between it and the carb casting?

[harleynut]

I put one on my 30 Phaeton and I noticed the difference.....ran much better, started easier, idles real nice. With my Zenith when I would come to a quick stop the engine wanted to stall......doesn't do it with a Marvel.

[GMCPASO]

Hi MS carb users

Rounded up 6 of these at a swap meet in Bakersfield this spring. Have rebuilt 4 of them and tested them on my 29 Tudor. Great Carbs. One of them seems to have some type of accelerator pump inside the bowl. I tested it today and was surprised. Appears to have a noticeable difference, quicker responds. Anyone seen one of these? It only had the A input on the side and also a Zenith GAV. No B input on the front is cast into the the top like the others. If anyone has any information on the "accelerator pump"?, could I get some feedback. Now to see what happens to the MPG. Already the plugs are better condition, running much cleaner and operates much smoother on acceleration and noticeable better when climbing hills with a slight opening of the GAV. Average price of the carbs at SM was $7. When I talked to Reener's Corners, they reported the Acc. Pump revision was made for Chevy division of GM. I sure like them as they all run much smoother and accelerate much better with the Chevy version having a quicker response as I see it.

[41plym]

I bought a rebuilt one from a guy off ebay.
Bolt on and drive.
Runs like a a top.
He has them all the time.

[jhowes]

I also have one with the "accelerator pump" in the fuel bowl but have never had anyone explain or know what it was. I would love to hear an explanation, if anyone knows what that is and how it works. Jack

[Afordman31]

Am running one on my Speedster.........very seldom have to choke it to start the car.

[JBill]

I ran a Marvel for a time, but one time the float somehow stuck open, with disastrous, leaky, scary results. I now run a Tillotson.

[leo]

Hey, theHIGHLANDER, look here:
https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showth...ight=disection

[Herb Concord Ca]

I have a Marvel on both my 31 slant T/S and on my 31 Roadster p/u. They both run better than the Tillotsons they replaced.

If you want a viton tip float needle valve they have them at Steiner Tractor.

[harleytoprock]

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Leo, the link doesn't work for me.

[RonC]

I have heard they were sold by Ford as replacements after Model B carbs and before the tillys

[Peyton]

I've run one before and the car performed very well with it. I'm not sure if it's as fuel efficient as a Tillotson or Zenith but I remember the car having a lot of pep with it.

[Ron Lachniet]

I am running a Marvel with the built in pump and so far I am very happy with it's performance. I also do not know how the pump functions except that when vacuum is applied to one spring it allows an opposing spring to open a valve in the bottom of bowl. Also be aware that the vinton tip from Steiner does not fit all Marvel model a carbs.

[leo]

Sorry about the link, just look back through the previous posts regarding MS carburetors and you will find much information and photos about rebuilding.

[leo]

Better:
https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showt...ight=disection

[GMCPASO]

If all mechanical is good, maybe the GAV seals may need some replacement. Renners has these and gaskets.

[GMCPASO]

Well I have been running one of these carbs with the accelerator function and find a noticeable quicker pickup. Seems to have better acceleration and much smoother idle and operation. Of the 6 I purchased at a swap meet, this is the only one with the acceleration pump. I have rebuilt 3 others from the parts and tested them on my car, a 29 Tudor, and found them to operate well but not as well as they have a very small delay in acceleration. Will look for others at SMs. Talked with Renner's and they indicated this version was used by GM on older Chevrolets. Oops, did I put this on a Ford.

This one sets up just like a Till and Zenith, idle adjustment and GAV. Starts with GAV open 3/4 - 1 turn open and after warmed up it runs around town and road at 1/4 open. Spark plugs look great after a longer run. Waiting to get into the higher mountains to see if the 1/4 more closure will work at higher altitudes.

I am running a 6.0 head, modified B cam with inserted bearing and 3.54 diff. This is sweet as it turns 2180 rpm at 55 mph. Looking forward to working out some MPG on a long trip. Using regular California gas, 10% alcohol.

[Joe K]

When I talked to Reener's Corners, they reported the Acc. Pump revision was made for Chevy division of GM.

So this carb has the angled GAV valve on the side? How could this be use with a Chevrolet (or any other car than Ford Model A?)

Joe K

[Step-down]

Were they als called Sears ?

[GMCPASO]

I just reported what I was told. I haven't seen a Chevrolet installation. I saw a Chevy version on the internet and it does not have the choke rod on it just a choke lever. No GAV adjustment. The one I have has the accel. pump and the Ford GAV and Choke but the fuel input is only for the A version, there is no B version input I have on all the others. Might have been an experimental version with the GM version as both top and bottom have parts for the accel. pump. Next time I have it off the car I will try to get some detailed pictures of it.

[GMCPASO]

I have also heard them called "no name carb and "square-bowled carbs". Western auto sold them along with Firestone stores.

[Joe K]

Originally Posted by GMCPASO

I just reported what I was told. I haven't seen a Chevrolet installation.

Thanks for your reply - I'll have to start checking my sources - and my two Marvel carbs for differences.

Joe K

[cpf240]

Originally Posted by GMCPASO

I have also heard them called "no name carb and "square-bowled carbs". Western auto sold them along with Firestone stores.

At Sears, they were probably sold under the Allstate name. I'm told they were also sold by Ford under part number B-9510-A2.

[GMCPASO]

Photos of Carb installed and internals showing Accelerator valves. Note in Install photo there is not a forward fuel inlet for a B installation.


Photo 1.jpg

Photo 2.jpg

Photo 3.jpg

[Joe K]

Thank you for that - and the head's up regarding the external difference of no forward fuel line connect. It might allow one to see the "improved" version carburetor in a pile of scrap carburetors at 50, er, perhaps 5 paces.

I've been kind of "collecting" variant Model A carburetors for a while. Just a weakness allied to a bigger weakness for Model A Ford allied to a bigger weakness of "hoarding" I guess.

He who dies with the most toys wins?

And I've been fooled too - like that Wizard/Simmons aluminum bottom attached to a Zenith cast iron carburetor top. Why anyone would mix and match parts like that for use is beyond me? One might even have been combining parts simply to make a "complete" carburetor for sale on Ebay? Not to accuse.

Caviet Emptor.

Joe K

[duke36]

my set up is similar to GMCPASO"s, except I use the 5.5 K&N Filter. Also have a viton tip float valve (Non Steiner) that works ok. However when the car sits for a month or so, check to see if overflow out the intake due to stuck float. I sometimes run out the gas a little bit after each run . The enthanol /alcohol gas is somewhat brutal so will try additives. It sure eats up seals and gaskets in our leaf blowers!

[GMCPASO]

Well I have been using this carb for a year now. Still very happy with its mileage, better that 20+ per gallon just running around town and some local drives. I like the response when leaning it out on the GAV. Very sensitive, can tell what is happening right away, I like that. Will be going on long trip this fall and will see what is going to happen on a 4000 mile trip.

[Hunterspeedandkustoms]

Good info on this carb. I've been trying to decide whether I wanted to trade in my crusty Zenith for a rebuild or go with a downdraft carb setup. These Marvels seem kind of unique and nice compromise between the Zenith and a Stromberg.

[GMCPASO]

Ok, I am back from a 4673 mile trip to South Dakota and return with the Model A Touring Club. Drove the car from home in Central Coast of California, through Nevada, Arizona, Utah, Wyoming, and South Dakota and return via similar route, 3 weeks involved. Stopped 40 times for gas, avg 5.5 gallons for each stop, took 220 gallons of 85-87 ethanol/gas which comes to 21.2 MPG. Drove at 50-55 MPH when possible on interstates and other roads. Drove all the way to eastern SD to Sioux Falls. The only issue was a fuel filter stopped flow to the MS carburetor which was quickly changed and returned to the trip home in about 20 minutes.

Great trip and lots of great sights and friends. Glad it was done and looking forward to others.

The only problem I have with mine it it stops when it doesn't get gas. Oh, by the way, I run an air filter on mine with a balanced system.

[tribouboys]

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I've run one on my 30 Tudor for 2 years now and the only issue I have is when I stop and shut off the engine the carb leaks gas out the air intake. I've had it back to the rebuilder 3x and he has yet to fit it.

Great Carb excellent performance when running.

[1930artdeco]

I have noticed two things since putting mine back on-the one that works.



1) I have to choke her every time I go to start her up. Not sure why.
2) She does leak when shut off so I just the gas off drive her into the garage and then shut off the ignition.


Mike

[GMCPASO]

The only problem I have with mine it it stops when it doesn't get gas, fuel filter blocked it. I run an air filter on mine with a balanced system.

[Tom Wesenberg]

Originally Posted by tribouboys

I've run one on my 30 Tudor for 2 years now and the only issue I have is when I stop and shut off the engine the carb leaks gas out the air intake. I've had it back to the rebuilder 3x and he has yet to fit it.

Great Carb excellent performance when running.

Today's gas boils way too easy, and when you stop, then the carb absorbs more heat and boils the gas in the carb. It then drips out the inlet.


Turn the gas off a minute before stopping the engine, and see if that fixes the problem. Sure wish we had the good gas of the 60's.

[tribouboys]

Thanks very much I'll try that Tom.

[GMCPASO]

Yes, I have noticed some gas around the carburetor after shutting down. I have started to shut off valve off before getting into the garage and letting it run a short time to lower the fuel in the bowel. Stopped the gas smell.

[JBill]

I stopped using my MS because it leaked, and put a Tillotson back on. Never have any trouble with them. I think the float in the MS is too small and doesn't create enough force to close the needle valve tightly. That's my bizarre and probably stupid theory anyway!

[GMCPASO]

Got back from 4670 mile trip.
Trip resulted in 21.4 mpg. Stopped once due to fuel filter, glass bowl and filter, plugged with junk from tank. Was headed home in Wy. Changed filter and back on road in 20 minutes. Great Carb.

[Mountain Dew]

I'm running a Marvel/Schebler carb on my 28 roadster. I have not experienced any "vapor lock" type symptoms like I did with a Zenith. Here is my roadster configured with a "Bat" super-charger and a M/S carb.

[Purdy Swoft]

I remember when most of the model A's that I would see was running a Marvel carburetor . The marvel may have been a better carburetor and they always performed good for me . One of the things that I liked most about the Zenith carbs was that it only required the removal of one bolt to remove the bowl for access to the float and needle valve . Another disadvantage is that in time , any pot metal carburetor can warp from heat and develope vacume leaks that HAVE to be dealt with !!! I also prefer the original look of the Zenith carburetor . If I want more speed , I use the model B Zenith carburetor that has more venture area and a high speed jet . I like running two model B carbs on a dual updraft intake manifold even better . The B carburetors are more complicated

[mgtf1500]

I run my Schebler with a Grosse Jet. Works great. The car is responsive and lively.

[Hoogah]

Originally Posted by Purdy Swoft

....... I like running two model B carbs on a dual updraft intake manifold even better . The B carburetors are more complicated

Interesting! Got a photo of that setup, Purdy?

[Purdy Swoft]

Yes and I posted pictures here many times of the Trojan setup on my roadster and the uniflo setup on my speedster . I had my pictures stored on photo bucket. I had pictures all over this site of my cars , parts , shop and model A stuff . Photo bucket took away everybodys pictures that refused to pay them nearly 500 dollars per year for storage . Sorry but I was never able to resize pictures as necessary to post them here , photo bucket took care of that . I know that there is other ways to store and post pictures . I'm not that much into computer stuff and probably won't try to get back into posting pictures . Sorry , I really hate it .

[Hoogah]

Originally Posted by Purdy Swoft

Yes and I posted pictures here many times of the Trojan setup on my roadster and the uniflo setup on my speedster . I had my pictures stored on photo bucket. I had pictures all over this site of my cars , parts , shop and model A stuff . Photo bucket took away everybodys pictures that refused to pay them nearly 500 dollars per year for storage . Sorry but I was never able to resize pictures as necessary to post them here , photo bucket took care of that . I know that there is other ways to store and post pictures . I'm not that much into computer stuff and probably won't try to get back into posting pictures . Sorry , I really hate it .

Oh yeah, I remember that. Photo bucket sucks! No worries Purdy.

[GMCPASO]

Yes, I found leather washers in the GAV. I replaced them with same and no issues here.

[saxman657]

Originally Posted by GMCPASO

Yes, I have noticed some gas around the carburetor after shutting down. I have started to shut off valve off before getting into the garage and letting it run a short time to lower the fuel in the bowel. Stopped the gas smell.

I spoke with my rebuilder about this minimal leakage. The issue seams to be with the brass coupler that the fuel line fits into. The rebuilder says he uses a dab of super glue. Don't know about that, but I use Hylomar and it takes care of the small "nuisance" leak.

[saxman657]

Followup on my post Used Hylomar on the brass coupler - worked like a charm. Then found a leak at the screw plug for Model B fuel inlet. Unscrewed and cleaned up, then applied Hylomar on the threads. Worked. No leaking carburetor!