Go Back   The Ford Barn > General Discussion > Model A (1928-31)

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 08-17-2021, 10:52 PM   #1
Pete W.
Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 34
Default Brake shoe lining

Using new cast iron drums.

Should woven lining or molded lining be used?
Pete W. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-17-2021, 11:33 PM   #2
CWPASADENA
Senior Member
 
CWPASADENA's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: PASADENA, CA
Posts: 1,729
Default Re: Brake shoe lining

Woven,

Henry used woven linings with cast iron drums clear up until the war.

Woven lining has a much higher coefficient of friction than the currently available molded linings which will give you better brakes.

Chris W.
CWPASADENA is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)
Old 08-18-2021, 12:21 AM   #3
Synchro909
Senior Member
 
Synchro909's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 5,852
Default Re: Brake shoe lining

Quote:
Originally Posted by CWPASADENA View Post
Woven,

Henry used woven linings with cast iron drums clear up until the war.

Woven lining has a much higher coefficient of friction than the currently available molded linings which will give you better brakes.

Chris W.
But rivet them on. They seem to loose some of that coefficient of friction if they are bonded on. You can't use too many clamps to hold the lining hard against the shoe when you're doing that job.
__________________
Man sacrifices his health to make money, then he spends money to recover his health. He is so anxious about the future that he does not enjoy the present. The result is that he does not live in the present or the future. He lives as though he is never going to die and then dies having never really lived.
Synchro909 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-18-2021, 08:44 AM   #4
Patrick L.
Senior Member
 
Patrick L.'s Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Upstate NY and western Florida
Posts: 6,647
Default Re: Brake shoe lining

Personally I would use bonded. The coefficient of friction of the woven is only slightly better than bonded. I just had to add a difference of opinion, FWIW.
Patrick L. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-18-2021, 11:13 AM   #5
denniskliesen
Senior Member
 
denniskliesen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: SoCal
Posts: 797
Default Re: Brake shoe lining

I have a new set of lining with rivets I bought from Bratton’s 5 years ago. I plan on using the rivets going on my PU.
denniskliesen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-18-2021, 02:06 PM   #6
Kevin in NJ
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: South East NJ
Posts: 3,304
Default Re: Brake shoe lining

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)
Quote:
Originally Posted by CWPASADENA View Post
Woven,

Henry used woven linings with cast iron drums clear up until the war.

Woven lining has a much higher coefficient of friction than the currently available molded linings which will give you better brakes.

Chris W.
Except they changed to molded before the end of A production and not with the change to cast drums.

The type of molded lining was different than what we see today.

The real issues you need to be concerned with are centering and arced to the drum. It does not matter how good the friction is if you do not have 100% contact area. I believe most people do not have the tools to do this properly.

I personally believe most people should be buying drums with loaded backing plates already centered and arced to fit for max braking.

Good brakes are not cheap or simple to make happen. It takes special tools and great care.
__________________
Cabriolet and Technical Hints
Kevin in NJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-18-2021, 05:44 PM   #7
Patrick L.
Senior Member
 
Patrick L.'s Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Upstate NY and western Florida
Posts: 6,647
Default Re: Brake shoe lining

[QUOTE=Kevin in NJ;2047370]Except they changed to molded before the end of A production and not with the change to cast drums.



The real issues you need to be concerned with are centering and arced to the drum. It does not matter how good the friction is if you do not have 100% contact area. I believe most people do not have the tools to do this properly.





Yep.
Patrick L. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-19-2021, 05:25 AM   #8
Bob Bidonde
Senior Member
 
Bob Bidonde's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Long Island, NY
Posts: 2,411
Default Re: Brake shoe lining

I have bonded linings on my Victoria and they suck! This winter I will replace them woven linings.
__________________
Bob Bidonde
Bob Bidonde is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-19-2021, 08:10 AM   #9
Tom Wesenberg
Senior Member
 
Tom Wesenberg's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Mpls, MN
Posts: 27,582
Default Re: Brake shoe lining

I've always liked the original riveted woven linings best.
I've only had the original steel drums, but the new cast iron would be a nice improvement.
Tom Wesenberg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-19-2021, 08:52 AM   #10
Planojc
Senior Member
 
Planojc's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Plano, Texas
Posts: 610
Default Re: Brake shoe lining

Not sure if this is true but I have always heard that woven for mechanical brakes and molded for hydraulics.
Planojc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-19-2021, 09:21 AM   #11
duke36
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Posts: 1,312
Default Re: Brake shoe lining

Please ensure the rivets are as tight as possible to the shoe.
Had a couple of loose ones on the ends that bound up in the drum.
duke36 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-19-2021, 10:50 AM   #12
Patrick L.
Senior Member
 
Patrick L.'s Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Upstate NY and western Florida
Posts: 6,647
Default Re: Brake shoe lining

Quote:
Originally Posted by Planojc View Post
Not sure if this is true but I have always heard that woven for mechanical brakes and molded for hydraulics.


I've always heard the same. Also that woven are steel and moulded for cast.
Patrick L. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-19-2021, 11:04 AM   #13
Pete W.
Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 34
Default Re: Brake shoe lining

THANK YOU to everyone responding. A great help!
Pete W. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-19-2021, 10:52 PM   #14
larrys40
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: St Charles , Missouri
Posts: 1,820
Default Re: Brake shoe lining

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin in NJ View Post
Except they changed to molded before the end of A production and not with the change to cast drums.

The type of molded lining was different than what we see today.

The real issues you need to be concerned with are centering and arced to the drum. It does not matter how good the friction is if you do not have 100% contact area. I believe most people do not have the tools to do this properly.

I personally believe most people should be buying drums with loaded backing plates already centered and arced to fit for max braking.

Good brakes are not cheap or simple to make happen. It takes special tools and great care.
Kevin
I’ll agree with you. As many of you know brakes are more work on A’s than most folks think and realize. I do my own and countless brake jobs for others. Randy does a great job for you guys who wish to buy them reworked for mounting which is a great thing, as most wouldn’t do the job as well as guys like Randy and Those like myself they do outside work for others. But then adjusting and setting them up is the final task that is just as important to making them work and perform.
Forget the dimension in the rods.

Rods disconnect adjust the wedges for a light drag and then back off a click or two . Then adjust the rear rods taking up the slack in the rear arm and cam to get Clovis in pin in. It will be a snug pull. Then do the front. Your front arms should of course be 15 degrees forward to start or you will have to fix the problem. Adjust the fronts removing and slack. Snug is ok as they will break in quickly. I use some initial pedal pressure to break them in quickly.

I do a lot of brake work and am know for doing good brakes. Attention to detail, ensuring proper contact, molded lining preferably bonded with cast iron drums and properly adjusted after proper comprehensive rebuilding should give you good results. It is not easy despite what some folks think.

I have a helper with a calibrated foot at specific intervals to help for adjustment.
All four wheels off the ground and checking all for drag. Equal grab and friction is key. Nothing wrong with a little more front emphasis. Just don’t overdo it.

Properly adjusted and dialed in you should be bringing it to a screeching stop.
I can smoke the tires to a stop on my 30 tudor and even my slant window town sedan screeches easily to a stop.

Larry Shepard

Last edited by larrys40; 08-19-2021 at 11:06 PM.
larrys40 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-19-2021, 11:28 PM   #15
CWPASADENA
Senior Member
 
CWPASADENA's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: PASADENA, CA
Posts: 1,729
Default Re: Brake shoe lining

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Bidonde View Post
I have bonded linings on my Victoria and they suck! This winter I will replace them woven linings.
The problem with todays molded linings is they are as hard as a rock. The molded linings we used to get in the old days was a lot softer and performed well.

Chris W.
CWPASADENA is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-19-2021, 11:32 PM   #16
CWPASADENA
Senior Member
 
CWPASADENA's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: PASADENA, CA
Posts: 1,729
Default Re: Brake shoe lining

Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick L. View Post
I've always heard the same. Also that woven are steel and molded for cast.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Planojc View Post
Not sure if this is true but I have always heard that woven for mechanical brakes and molded for hydraulics.
Henry used woven linings with cast iron drums well into the late 30's.

Woven linings work very well with both steel and cast iron drums.

Chris W.
CWPASADENA is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-20-2021, 11:11 AM   #17
larrys40
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: St Charles , Missouri
Posts: 1,820
Default Re: Brake shoe lining

I know there’s this debate out there on linings but I can tell you I do lots of brake work and I can tell you I’m in both camps of pros and cons. I recently pulled off a set of wovens that just wouldn’t stop that I put on a car to get rid of a squealing issue, great shoe contact, but were glazed over and that wouldn’t stop as good as they should have. Put on a new set of molded bonded and problem solved. There’s also a variety of woven from old to recent suppliers and they are not all the created equal or with good results. I had one of the brake lining suppliers tell me the resin they use can be one of the sources of squeaking and glazing. I’m way to busy to debate this but was just sharing my knowledge and experience having done hundreds of model a brake jobs.
Buy and use what you want. Good luck
Larry Shepard
larrys40 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-20-2021, 09:03 PM   #18
Pete W.
Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 34
Default Re: Brake shoe lining

THANK YOU AGAIN GUYS for taking time to respond and get more detailed in brake work. This has been educational to me and everyone reading .


This hasn't been a 30 weight oil question,oppose to 40 non and detergent changed once a year to every 500 miles in the winter. (just kidding)!
Just either woven or bonded.



I really appreciate your experience doing brakes. I've learned a lot and recalled some tricks I've forgotten!


Pete W.
Pete W. is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:53 PM.