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11-07-2020, 05:43 AM | #1 |
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Location: Belgium, West Europ
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French flat mods
Hi, my project is to put a 239 french flat in a 1932 stock chassis, so I've some questions.
#1 I'll use the original engine mounts. But on a french flat, the holes are not drilled for the engine mounts and for the anti chatter rods. I'm using the original rear axle with torque tube. Did someone do it yet ? Maybe using a template ? #2 Is it possible to use a crab dizzy without changing the camshaft ? I think it isn't. If somebody can confirm. Also, I'ld like to use a single belt setup. On my engine, one belt drives the right water pump and the gen, the other one drives the left pump and the fan. the pumps have 2 different offset and 2 different pulley diameter. Thanks. |
11-07-2020, 10:25 AM | #2 |
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Re: French flat mods
I think you need 8RT pumps. No you can't use the early distributor without changing the cam. not sure the back gouverner/dist boss will clear firewall sorry
Gramps. |
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11-07-2020, 10:45 AM | #3 |
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Re: French flat mods
If it was mine, I would "convert" the front of the motor to a 59AB style - water pumps, timing cover, cam, distributor, etc.. I would also run the center water outlet heads.
You want the fan belt to be tight against the block (like a 32 was) - so I take a a later crankshaft pulley (the one where the fan mounts on it - around 1940 or so) - and I cut the fan mounting flange off of it. You'll run a crab style distributor (easiest of the front mount ones to use) and you'll need to run the early t-slot style camshaft and the early crank/cam gears. I don't know about the governor boss in the back, but I sure as heck would get that big "lump" outta there. Also, something that I do is cut the water pump "mounting horns" off of the 39-48 water pumps - as you're not using them . . . they stick out like "bull horns" - looks like crap in my mind. You should also use the 1932 fan (which correctly fits up top) - they are expensive, but that is what you'll want. If you have any questions, feel free to PM me. I have a 1942 Merc motor in my 32 Cabriolet - so I've been down this path (the front of the motor stuff). |
11-07-2020, 11:16 AM | #4 |
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Re: French flat mods
Harold,
I installed a '49 Merc in my '32 pickup...I'm on the road finally. I used the '32 front mounts from DRAKE and the stamped steel adapter bell housing to mount a '39 type trans. I kept the '49 -'53 distributor & truck pumps ( with mounting ears cut off ). The intake (for now ) is a Canadian aluminum 3 bolt. I chose a single wire alternator from VanPelt with a '35-'36 fan. The fan with this setup is about 1 inch from the radiator (an aluminum WIZARD rad). Everything clears quite nicely. My truck is a very early build with the Model A style rear axle (round flange where it mates up to the banjo) and is weak....I blew it on day 2 on the road.... I did a rebuild on this rear end but I'm re-machining a '36 rear for install later. Clearly there's many ways to get the job done...e mail me with any ??? [email protected] Good luck, Charlie ny |
11-07-2020, 11:28 AM | #5 |
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Location: Belgium, West Europ
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Re: French flat mods
Thank you all. My flatty is fresh rebuild (20 years ago but low mileage).
Im looking for an easy transformation because I also have a 59 seems coming from a Canadian truck (no one I asked can be sure). This one need a complete rebuild but for now I want to put my 32 on the road ASAP. I have a 39 trans an original early banjo. I worry about the clearance between the 59 oil pan I used for a mock up and the wishbone. The front cross member was modified in the past. The front of the car is lowered about 1 and its tight. Last edited by Harold Degand; 11-07-2020 at 11:38 AM. |
11-07-2020, 12:31 PM | #6 |
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Re: French flat mods
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11-07-2020, 01:15 PM | #7 |
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Re: French flat mods
I have a french motor in my 32 chassis'd model A. (Old Rusty). It has a 59A type oil pan and I had to modify the oil pan to clear the wishbone. you can cut away a piece and weld a piece in. It's not holding oil, in that area, it is where the flywheel is located.
On a 32 it is not necessary to use the 59A type pumps, the belt can run in the truck position, further forward. it does make the alignment of the lower hoses more difficult, though. The boss at the rear can be cut down quite a lot. I'm not sure if it is necessary in a 32. I did cut mine down though, just to make it look better. You might want to use the oil pan, starter and flywheel from the 59A. You will need a 59A cam and a crab distributor is most peoples choice. You'll need a 2 bolt cover. The French crank and cam gears are cut like a 59A so you can swap in a 59 cam and use the French gears. The 59A motor will make a great donor for all the parts you need to convert a French military truck motor to car usage. Any questions, just ask. Mart. |
11-07-2020, 02:14 PM | #8 |
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Re: French flat mods
Harold, Do you plan to use a dropped front end in your '32 and if so retain the stock wishbone? If you use the stock wishbone you might want to consider the '36-40 oil pan. It will allow more clearance where the wishbone passes under near the starter.If not the wishbone could hit the pan.Here are pic of the differences in that area I am talking about.You can see the slight curve of the dirty one as opposed to the other which is straight.Also pic of my '33 which is slightly lowered and the clearance .
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11-07-2020, 02:31 PM | #9 |
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Re: French flat mods
Deuce Lover : no I’ll not lowering the front end. Everything is stock except the front cross member. I don’t know why but in the past someone cut it in the middle and welded a center section of a Model A. So the chassis sit about 1-1/5’’ (3cm) lower than stock.
Thanks for the advice for the oil pan. I think finding it in Europ will be a little bit difficult, so why not modifying the one I have ? |
11-07-2020, 02:36 PM | #10 |
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Re: French flat mods
Mart : thanks, this is a good news, too.
I can use the pan of the 59a but also the heads, timing cover, dizzy, and intake. Maybe the cam, too ... What’s the difference between the 59a and Cargo flywheel ? |
11-07-2020, 03:42 PM | #11 |
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Re: French flat mods
The teeth are chamfered from the other side on some French flywheels. If you use the stock 59a type starter the chamfers should be on the gearbox side. The SUMB type flywheels all seem to be 11" clutches which are not the best for car usage.
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11-07-2020, 06:49 PM | #12 |
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Re: French flat mods
Harold: Deuce Lover has it right on the oil-pan. You may have clearance issues on bumps if you don't either find the early pan, or modify the current one to "indent" the area where the wishbone goes by the pan.
On my 32 Cabriolet (Posies reverse eye spring), I had to modify the 36-40 pan even more - to get enough clearance for the WB to not hit the pan on big bumps. |
11-07-2020, 06:53 PM | #13 | |
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Re: French flat mods
Quote:
I have all my stock pumps rebuilt by 'Skip' so I have his much better impellers and sealed bearings. I like this route - versus the repop pumps. |
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11-07-2020, 10:57 PM | #14 |
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Re: French flat mods
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11-08-2020, 08:35 AM | #15 |
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Re: French flat mods
Have the flywheel re drilled for a 9 1/2 later pressure plate stronger than the 0 and lighter than the 10 or 11.
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11-22-2020, 09:28 PM | #16 |
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Re: French flat mods
I continue this thread about the mods.
I finally got the cam out of the 59a. It isn’t in a good shape to be re usable. The plan to convert the military to a 59a style on a budget isn’t so easy. So I’m thinking about keeping the 8ba style and keep the original cam. The question is, is the french cam the same as a 8ba and good for a car use ? |
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