Go Back   The Ford Barn > General Discussion > Early V8 (1932-53)

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 11-07-2020, 05:43 AM   #1
Harold Degand
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2019
Location: Belgium, West Europ
Posts: 85
Default French flat mods

Hi, my project is to put a 239 french flat in a 1932 stock chassis, so I've some questions.

#1 I'll use the original engine mounts. But on a french flat, the holes are not drilled for the engine mounts and for the anti chatter rods. I'm using the original rear axle with torque tube.
Did someone do it yet ? Maybe using a template ?

#2 Is it possible to use a crab dizzy without changing the camshaft ?
I think it isn't. If somebody can confirm.
Also, I'ld like to use a single belt setup. On my engine, one belt drives the right water pump and the gen, the other one drives the left pump and the fan. the pumps have 2 different offset and 2 different pulley diameter.

Thanks.
Harold Degand is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-07-2020, 10:25 AM   #2
Ol' Ron
Senior Member
 
Ol' Ron's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Chester Vt
Posts: 8,842
Default Re: French flat mods

I think you need 8RT pumps. No you can't use the early distributor without changing the cam. not sure the back gouverner/dist boss will clear firewall sorry
Gramps.
Ol' Ron is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)
Old 11-07-2020, 10:45 AM   #3
Bored&Stroked
Senior Member
 
Bored&Stroked's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Central Ohio
Posts: 5,013
Default Re: French flat mods

If it was mine, I would "convert" the front of the motor to a 59AB style - water pumps, timing cover, cam, distributor, etc.. I would also run the center water outlet heads.

You want the fan belt to be tight against the block (like a 32 was) - so I take a a later crankshaft pulley (the one where the fan mounts on it - around 1940 or so) - and I cut the fan mounting flange off of it.

You'll run a crab style distributor (easiest of the front mount ones to use) and you'll need to run the early t-slot style camshaft and the early crank/cam gears. I don't know about the governor boss in the back, but I sure as heck would get that big "lump" outta there.

Also, something that I do is cut the water pump "mounting horns" off of the 39-48 water pumps - as you're not using them . . . they stick out like "bull horns" - looks like crap in my mind.

You should also use the 1932 fan (which correctly fits up top) - they are expensive, but that is what you'll want. If you have any questions, feel free to PM me. I have a 1942 Merc motor in my 32 Cabriolet - so I've been down this path (the front of the motor stuff).
Bored&Stroked is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-07-2020, 11:16 AM   #4
Charlie ny
BANNED
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 3,019
Default Re: French flat mods

Harold,
I installed a '49 Merc in my '32 pickup...I'm on the road finally. I used the '32 front mounts from DRAKE and the stamped steel adapter bell housing to mount a '39 type trans. I kept the '49 -'53 distributor & truck pumps ( with mounting ears cut off ).
The intake (for now ) is a Canadian aluminum 3 bolt. I chose a single wire alternator from VanPelt with a '35-'36 fan. The fan with this setup is about 1 inch from the radiator (an aluminum WIZARD rad). Everything clears quite nicely.
My truck is a very early build with the Model A style rear axle (round flange
where it mates up to the banjo) and is weak....I blew it on day 2 on the road....
I did a rebuild on this rear end but I'm re-machining a '36 rear for install later.
Clearly there's many ways to get the job done...e mail me with any ???
[email protected]
Good luck,
Charlie ny
Charlie ny is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-07-2020, 11:28 AM   #5
Harold Degand
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2019
Location: Belgium, West Europ
Posts: 85
Default Re: French flat mods

Thank you all. My flatty is fresh rebuild (20 years ago but low mileage).
I’m looking for an easy transformation because I also have a 59 seems coming from a Canadian truck (no one I asked can be sure). This one need a complete rebuild but for now I want to put my 32 on the road ASAP.
I have a ‘39 trans an original early banjo.

I worry about the clearance between the 59 oil pan I used for a mock up and the wishbone. The front cross member was modified in the past. The front of the car is lowered about 1’’ and it’s tight.

Last edited by Harold Degand; 11-07-2020 at 11:38 AM.
Harold Degand is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-07-2020, 12:31 PM   #6
Brian
Senior Member
 
Brian's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Masterton, New Zealand
Posts: 3,816
Default Re: French flat mods

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)
If you run the earlier pumps as B&S suggests, they'll need to be the truck pumps [double pulley], and plug the top bypass holes in the block. The French block doesn't have the lube holes to oil the bushes found in the regular pumps.
__________________
Unfortunately, two half wits don't make a whole wit!
Brian is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-07-2020, 01:15 PM   #7
Mart
Senior Member
 
Mart's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Solihull, England.
Posts: 8,732
Default Re: French flat mods

I have a french motor in my 32 chassis'd model A. (Old Rusty). It has a 59A type oil pan and I had to modify the oil pan to clear the wishbone. you can cut away a piece and weld a piece in. It's not holding oil, in that area, it is where the flywheel is located.

On a 32 it is not necessary to use the 59A type pumps, the belt can run in the truck position, further forward. it does make the alignment of the lower hoses more difficult, though.

The boss at the rear can be cut down quite a lot. I'm not sure if it is necessary in a 32. I did cut mine down though, just to make it look better.

You might want to use the oil pan, starter and flywheel from the 59A.

You will need a 59A cam and a crab distributor is most peoples choice. You'll need a 2 bolt cover.

The French crank and cam gears are cut like a 59A so you can swap in a 59 cam and use the French gears.

The 59A motor will make a great donor for all the parts you need to convert a French military truck motor to car usage.

Any questions, just ask.

Mart.
Mart is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-07-2020, 02:14 PM   #8
deuce lover
Senior Member
 
deuce lover's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Southern France
Posts: 5,279
Default Re: French flat mods

Harold, Do you plan to use a dropped front end in your '32 and if so retain the stock wishbone? If you use the stock wishbone you might want to consider the '36-40 oil pan. It will allow more clearance where the wishbone passes under near the starter.If not the wishbone could hit the pan.Here are pic of the differences in that area I am talking about.You can see the slight curve of the dirty one as opposed to the other which is straight.Also pic of my '33 which is slightly lowered and the clearance .
Attached Images
File Type: jpg oil pan 1.jpg (31.2 KB, 37 views)
File Type: jpg oil pan 2.jpg (57.4 KB, 41 views)
File Type: jpg oil pan to wishbone clearance.jpg (148.5 KB, 47 views)
File Type: jpg pan clearance.jpg (98.9 KB, 49 views)
deuce lover is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-07-2020, 02:31 PM   #9
Harold Degand
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2019
Location: Belgium, West Europ
Posts: 85
Default Re: French flat mods

Deuce Lover : no I’ll not lowering the front end. Everything is stock except the front cross member. I don’t know why but in the past someone cut it in the middle and welded a center section of a Model A. So the chassis sit about 1-1/5’’ (3cm) lower than stock.
Thanks for the advice for the oil pan. I think finding it in Europ will be a little bit difficult, so why not modifying the one I have ?
Harold Degand is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-07-2020, 02:36 PM   #10
Harold Degand
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2019
Location: Belgium, West Europ
Posts: 85
Default Re: French flat mods

Mart : thanks, this is a good news, too.
I can use the pan of the 59a but also the heads, timing cover, dizzy, and intake.
Maybe the cam, too ...
What’s the difference between the 59a and Cargo flywheel ?
Harold Degand is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-07-2020, 03:42 PM   #11
Mart
Senior Member
 
Mart's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Solihull, England.
Posts: 8,732
Default Re: French flat mods

The teeth are chamfered from the other side on some French flywheels. If you use the stock 59a type starter the chamfers should be on the gearbox side. The SUMB type flywheels all seem to be 11" clutches which are not the best for car usage.
Mart is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-07-2020, 06:49 PM   #12
Bored&Stroked
Senior Member
 
Bored&Stroked's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Central Ohio
Posts: 5,013
Default Re: French flat mods

Harold: Deuce Lover has it right on the oil-pan. You may have clearance issues on bumps if you don't either find the early pan, or modify the current one to "indent" the area where the wishbone goes by the pan.

On my 32 Cabriolet (Posies reverse eye spring), I had to modify the 36-40 pan even more - to get enough clearance for the WB to not hit the pan on big bumps.
Bored&Stroked is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-07-2020, 06:53 PM   #13
Bored&Stroked
Senior Member
 
Bored&Stroked's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Central Ohio
Posts: 5,013
Default Re: French flat mods

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian View Post
If you run the earlier pumps as B&S suggests, they'll need to be the truck pumps [double pulley], and plug the top bypass holes in the block. The French block doesn't have the lube holes to oil the bushes found in the regular pumps.
This is only true if you're running original 37-48 water pumps with the bronze oil-lite bushing in them. Most of the repop/modern pumps (single pulley) have a sealed ball-bearing in them - instead of the bushing, so they need no oil.

I have all my stock pumps rebuilt by 'Skip' so I have his much better impellers and sealed bearings. I like this route - versus the repop pumps.
Bored&Stroked is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-07-2020, 10:57 PM   #14
Harold Degand
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2019
Location: Belgium, West Europ
Posts: 85
Default Re: French flat mods

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mart View Post
The SUMB type flywheels all seem to be 11" clutches which are not the best for car usage.
Yes, it is 11’’. Better use a 9’’ ?
Harold Degand is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-08-2020, 08:35 AM   #15
Ol' Ron
Senior Member
 
Ol' Ron's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Chester Vt
Posts: 8,842
Default Re: French flat mods

Have the flywheel re drilled for a 9 1/2 later pressure plate stronger than the 0 and lighter than the 10 or 11.
Ol' Ron is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-22-2020, 09:28 PM   #16
Harold Degand
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2019
Location: Belgium, West Europ
Posts: 85
Default Re: French flat mods

I continue this thread about the mods.
I finally got the cam out of the 59a. It isn’t in a good shape to be re usable.
The plan to convert the military to a 59a style on a budget isn’t so easy.
So I’m thinking about keeping the 8ba style and keep the original cam.
The question is, is the french cam the same as a 8ba and good for a car use ?
Harold Degand is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:05 AM.