The Ford Barn

3.6rs · 11-28-2016, 08:59 AM

Put your jack onder one side of the rear axle so that the other side is on the ground, and try turning the lifted wheel

Beauford · 11-28-2016, 08:59 AM

THanks, George!

Rex_A_Lott · 11-28-2016, 09:07 AM

Go back to your other thread, read james Rodgers advice and start from there, with it in neutral. Are you sure you cant find an old "A" er to help? This internet troubleshooting is tough, no one can see, hear or feel anything.Good Luck.

Pinesdune · 11-28-2016, 09:15 AM

One place to try and move the engine from that will give you a little more leverage is to use a screw driver on the ring gear through the starter motor hole, this allows you to turn things " one tooth at a time" in either direction and if you use a crappy screw driver, it should bend before things break.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

tbirdtbird · 11-28-2016, 10:28 AM

put the cheater bar aside else something will break...

a full diagnosis is lacking if it did turn before

you may not be aware that bolts, nuts, and such, especially from broken starter drives, and elsewhere, can fall into the bottom of the flywheel housing (perhaps you would call it the clutch housing), and jam against the flywheel and lock it. There is very little room down there. There are threads on this. This has been mentioned but without much explanation. It would be prudent to consider this possibility

A Model A has many peculiarities not found on other motors. Forget what you already know about engines. See if you can get a local Model A guy over there to help you. This has been mentioned also

Mitch//pa · 11-28-2016, 10:39 AM

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What is your long term plan here? Why not just pull the motor, trans, rear and go through everything. Your going to end up doing that anyway after all the futzing around

SeaSlugs · 11-28-2016, 01:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mitch//pa

What is your long term plan here? Why not just pull the motor, trans, rear and go through everything. Your going to end up doing that anyway after all the futzing around

agreed - get the engine on a stand and see whats stuck. (my guess it will be free once its on a stand) My clutch housing had about every hickory nut from a 5 mile radius in it...

Spokes · 11-28-2016, 02:50 PM

Have You had any Good Ol Boys, that are familiar with A'S look At you Running Gear? A local Model A Club ??

Beauford · 11-28-2016, 04:02 PM

No local clubs around here...Got a guy who knows A's coming next week. Thanks!

H. L. Chauvin · 11-28-2016, 04:42 PM

Similar Thoughts to Reply 11:

1. Engine turned ..... then engine does not turn.

2. Maybe at first engine turns ...... then ..... want to see if engine runs .... so we add water into the water outlet of the engine head.

3. Next, head gasket leaks, or in some other way, a small amount of water got into (1) or more cylinders, (maybe a spark plug hole), and formed rust at rings .... and now engine does not turn.

4. Had a marine engine once where only one (1) set of piston rings rusted over 12 years ..... added "Liquid Wrench" to all (4) cylinders, and tapped tops of each piston each day with a "medium" tap hitting a shaped 4x4 block of wood.

5. After about a week the rusted area broke loose.

DaWizard · 11-28-2016, 07:40 PM

Hey B, you tried removing the spark plugs and turning it over? You could have a bit of hydraulicing by the leaked antifreeze.

SeaSlugs · 11-28-2016, 07:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaWizard

Hey B, you tried removing the spark plugs and turning it over? You could have a bit of hydraulicing by the leaked antifreeze.

he doesnt even have a head on it nor a oil pan...

Beauford · 11-28-2016, 08:21 PM

It will turn at some point....if not I can open a new parts store for model A's. LOL

C26Pinelake · 11-28-2016, 08:37 PM

Obviously a missing piece to this. Puzzle that we don't know about. Something was either done or not done and we were not made aware. This many experts can not spin their wheels thus long. Wayne

H. L. Chauvin · 11-28-2016, 09:00 PM

Hi Beauford,

Per your most encouraging # 33, please continue to maintain your sense of humor .... funeral directors will never even think about trying to measure you for a funeral suit.

Beauford · 11-28-2016, 10:15 PM

Thanks, H.L., I'm serious about this project but try not to get too serious if that makes sense. This is for fun. I don't plan on being in any car shows. I'm looking to learn, mess up a little and one day take the family for a ride. Duct tape and channel locks will take me to the finish!!!

Tom Wesenberg · 11-29-2016, 12:32 AM

This is a mystery that you had it turning and now it's locked. I'd pry back and forth on the flywheel teeth and see if it moves 1/16" or not at all. As Mitch said, it appears bound to be on a stand so you can take it apart.

Back in the 80's I finally took off the head on a 1950 Studebaker Champion that was stuck. It looked spotless inside, except for the very slightest bit of rust on the one cylinder that had an open exhaust valve. It doesn't take much to make them stick, especially if the engine is fairly tight rather than worn out.

Beauford · 11-29-2016, 08:19 AM

Took side valve cover off and hit every angle with Kroil. I've tried the flywheel thing. Can't budge it. You figure 300lbs of torque probably on the front crank, a screwdriver isn't going to move the teeth on that gear. I ordered that tool for starter hole. I don't have a spare to make one. One of our vendors is going to have a Hell of a Christmas this year! LOL

aermotor · 11-29-2016, 08:33 AM

Is the bell housing on? If so my $'s are with tbirdtbird - very little clearance in the bottom, gravity did it with something.

John

Beauford · 11-29-2016, 08:47 AM

Yes, aermotor, the bell housing is on. I have put a small magnet down instide and nothing. I removed the starter and that's the only thing that has happened down that way. I have all bolts accounted for. I'll figure it out today.

11-28-2016, 08:59 AM	#21
3.6rs Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Belgistan (formerly known as Belgium) Posts: 573	Re: Unstuck engine now restuck... Put your jack onder one side of the rear axle so that the other side is on the ground, and try turning the lifted wheel

11-28-2016, 08:59 AM	#22
Beauford Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2016 Location: VA Posts: 569	Re: Unstuck engine now restuck... THanks, George!

11-28-2016, 09:07 AM	#23
Rex_A_Lott Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: Upstate South Carolina Posts: 794	Re: Unstuck engine now restuck... Go back to your other thread, read james Rodgers advice and start from there, with it in neutral. Are you sure you cant find an old "A" er to help? This internet troubleshooting is tough, no one can see, hear or feel anything.Good Luck.

11-28-2016, 09:15 AM	#24
Pinesdune Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2015 Location: Canada Posts: 414	Re: Unstuck engine now restuck... One place to try and move the engine from that will give you a little more leverage is to use a screw driver on the ring gear through the starter motor hole, this allows you to turn things " one tooth at a time" in either direction and if you use a crappy screw driver, it should bend before things break. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

11-28-2016, 10:28 AM	#25
tbirdtbird BANNED Join Date: May 2012 Location: inside your RAM Posts: 3,134	Re: Unstuck engine now restuck... put the cheater bar aside else something will break... a full diagnosis is lacking if it did turn before you may not be aware that bolts, nuts, and such, especially from broken starter drives, and elsewhere, can fall into the bottom of the flywheel housing (perhaps you would call it the clutch housing), and jam against the flywheel and lock it. There is very little room down there. There are threads on this. This has been mentioned but without much explanation. It would be prudent to consider this possibility A Model A has many peculiarities not found on other motors. Forget what you already know about engines. See if you can get a local Model A guy over there to help you. This has been mentioned also __________________ '31 180A

11-28-2016, 10:39 AM	#26
Mitch//pa BANNED Join Date: May 2010 Location: Bucks County, PA Posts: 11,454	Re: Unstuck engine now restuck... Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) What is your long term plan here? Why not just pull the motor, trans, rear and go through everything. Your going to end up doing that anyway after all the futzing around

11-28-2016, 02:50 PM	#28
Spokes Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: Monterey Peninsula,California Posts: 194	Re: Unstuck engine now restuck... Have You had any Good Ol Boys, that are familiar with A'S look At you Running Gear? A local Model A Club ??

11-28-2016, 04:02 PM	#29
Beauford Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2016 Location: VA Posts: 569	Re: Unstuck engine now restuck... No local clubs around here...Got a guy who knows A's coming next week. Thanks!

11-28-2016, 04:42 PM	#30
H. L. Chauvin Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 4,179	Re: Unstuck engine now restuck... Similar Thoughts to Reply 11: 1. Engine turned ..... then engine does not turn. 2. Maybe at first engine turns ...... then ..... want to see if engine runs .... so we add water into the water outlet of the engine head. 3. Next, head gasket leaks, or in some other way, a small amount of water got into (1) or more cylinders, (maybe a spark plug hole), and formed rust at rings .... and now engine does not turn. 4. Had a marine engine once where only one (1) set of piston rings rusted over 12 years ..... added "Liquid Wrench" to all (4) cylinders, and tapped tops of each piston each day with a "medium" tap hitting a shaped 4x4 block of wood. 5. After about a week the rusted area broke loose.

11-28-2016, 07:40 PM	#31
DaWizard BANNED Join Date: Nov 2016 Location: Dizzyland Ca Posts: 332	Re: Unstuck engine now restuck... Hey B, you tried removing the spark plugs and turning it over? You could have a bit of hydraulicing by the leaked antifreeze. __________________ New owner of '28 Tudor Previously owned; '30 Sport Coupe '28 left brake ccPickup '31 SW Town Sedan '28 AA Stake Bed '30 Cabriolet '42 Super Deluxe 4door Sedan "If it don't fit, get a bigger hammer. If it breaks...... ya needed a new one anyway!!" Doing a good job here is like wetting your pants in a dark suit. It gives you a warm feeling, but nobody notices. Never pass up a bathroom Never neglect an erection Never trust a fart

11-28-2016, 08:21 PM	#33
Beauford Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2016 Location: VA Posts: 569	Re: Unstuck engine now restuck... It will turn at some point....if not I can open a new parts store for model A's. LOL

11-28-2016, 08:37 PM	#34
C26Pinelake BANNED Join Date: May 2010 Location: Michigan / Ontario border, Sarnia, Ontario. 50 miles from Detroit and 150 from Toronto. Posts: 5,800	Re: Unstuck engine now restuck... Obviously a missing piece to this. Puzzle that we don't know about. Something was either done or not done and we were not made aware. This many experts can not spin their wheels thus long. Wayne

11-28-2016, 09:00 PM	#35
H. L. Chauvin Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 4,179	Re: Unstuck engine now restuck... Hi Beauford, Per your most encouraging # 33, please continue to maintain your sense of humor .... funeral directors will never even think about trying to measure you for a funeral suit. Last edited by H. L. Chauvin; 11-28-2016 at 09:00 PM. Reason: typo

11-28-2016, 10:15 PM	#36
Beauford Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2016 Location: VA Posts: 569	Re: Unstuck engine now restuck... Thanks, H.L., I'm serious about this project but try not to get too serious if that makes sense. This is for fun. I don't plan on being in any car shows. I'm looking to learn, mess up a little and one day take the family for a ride. Duct tape and channel locks will take me to the finish!!!

11-29-2016, 12:32 AM	#37
Tom Wesenberg Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Mpls, MN Posts: 27,582	Re: Unstuck engine now restuck... This is a mystery that you had it turning and now it's locked. I'd pry back and forth on the flywheel teeth and see if it moves 1/16" or not at all. As Mitch said, it appears bound to be on a stand so you can take it apart. Back in the 80's I finally took off the head on a 1950 Studebaker Champion that was stuck. It looked spotless inside, except for the very slightest bit of rust on the one cylinder that had an open exhaust valve. It doesn't take much to make them stick, especially if the engine is fairly tight rather than worn out.

11-29-2016, 08:19 AM	#38
Beauford Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2016 Location: VA Posts: 569	Re: Unstuck engine now restuck... Took side valve cover off and hit every angle with Kroil. I've tried the flywheel thing. Can't budge it. You figure 300lbs of torque probably on the front crank, a screwdriver isn't going to move the teeth on that gear. I ordered that tool for starter hole. I don't have a spare to make one. One of our vendors is going to have a Hell of a Christmas this year! LOL

11-29-2016, 08:33 AM	#39
aermotor Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2015 Location: Greenville, SC Posts: 1,099	Re: Unstuck engine now restuck... Is the bell housing on? If so my $'s are with tbirdtbird - very little clearance in the bottom, gravity did it with something. John

11-29-2016, 08:47 AM	#40
Beauford Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2016 Location: VA Posts: 569	Re: Unstuck engine now restuck... Yes, aermotor, the bell housing is on. I have put a small magnet down instide and nothing. I removed the starter and that's the only thing that has happened down that way. I have all bolts accounted for. I'll figure it out today.