Transmission gear gringing

[Clinton]

I recently bought a 1930 Standard Coupe' which had been restored several years ago but only has 1460+ miles on her. Problem: She shifts into gear from stand still 1,2,3 and reverse with no grinding at all. I have adjusted the clutch and changed the oil (1500W) and lubed the linkages and greased the throughout bearing. When I drive her down the road and try to shift to any gear the grinding is very bad. I have double clutched and tried with no double clutch with the same results, terrible grinding, impossible to drive. The clutch travel is 2/3rds out before I feel the car start to move. I am at a complete loss as to what is causing this. Any help would be most appreciated. Also the clutch feels heavy, much heavier than my 1928 truck. Many thanks, Clinton

[ModelA29]

I hope 1500W oil is a typo. Adj the clutch per the red book. You need the pedal to travel 1" before the clutch starts to disengage.

[Clinton]

Hi there, thanks for the response, No, I use 1500W that you can buy from Mike's afordable. I have been using it for years. I do have about 1" free play before I feel the clutch pressure. The travel before I feel the car start to move is about 2/3rds.

[nkaminar]

Mitchell, who make the synchromesh transmission recommend 85W-140 GL-5 gear oil. You could try that to see if it makes a difference.

It sounds like you may have a clutch problem. You may have to take the engine out or move the transmission back to do a clutch job. Look to see if you have the stock clutch or a V8 clutch. I have no complaints with my V8 clutch. Very smooth engagement.

[Stingray70]

Clinton, are you sure your idle isn't set too high?

[Jim/GA]

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

Originally Posted by Clinton

I recently bought a 1930 Standard Coupe' which had been restored several years ago but only has 1460+ miles on her. Problem: She shifts into gear from stand still 1,2,3 and reverse with no grinding at all. I have adjusted the clutch and changed the oil (1500W) and lubed the linkages and greased the throughout bearing. When I drive her down the road and try to shift to any gear the grinding is very bad. I have double clutched and tried with no double clutch with the same results, terrible grinding, impossible to drive. The clutch travel is 2/3rds out before I feel the car start to move. I am at a complete loss as to what is causing this. Any help would be most appreciated. Also the clutch feels heavy, much heavier than my 1928 truck. Many thanks, Clinton

Clinton-
It sounds like your clutch may not be fully disengaging when you step on the clutch pedal when driving. Get under the car and look at the clutch release arm on the side of the flywheel housing while someone depresses the clutch pedal. You are looking for a cracked arm where it attaches to the shaft.

The other thing that jumped out at me is the 1500 oil. This would be very thick oil, which slows the spinning gears in the transmission very quickly. Try shifting to the next gear VERY QUICKLY after stepping on the clutch pedal, especially when the car is cold (transmission oil is thickest). See if it drops into the next gear right away.

With lighter oil in the transmission, we have all learned to pause before shifting to the next gear. You may not need to do that.

[eagle]

To check to see if the clutch is disengaging properly: Idle the car with trans in neutral, not moving. Push in the clutch and withing a couple seconds push the transmission into gear. It should not clunk or grind if clutch is properly disengaging. If it is not, check to see if the clutch arm is cracked. Somewhat common issue. I use Lucas oil stabilizer in my transmission, have for many years, shifts smoother than a baby's bum.

[Clinton]

Hi all, thank you for all the information.
The car shifts into all gears when at a stand still, no clunk, no grinding, very smooth. I have another Model A a 1928 Closed Cab Pickup and I have the same 1500 oil in her and I have no problems. I have been using that oil for quite a few years in many different cars.
It doesn't just grind a little bit, the gears don't stop spinning know matter how long I pause between shifts or double clutching. I have adjusted the clutch to about 1" free play before the clutch start it engage. I put the E-brake on and put her in reverse and slowly let out the clutch and it takes about 2/3 travel before I feel the car start to move. The arm is in good shape. I don't know how to tell if there is a v8 clutch disk in her, how can I distinguish that from the stock Model A clutch disk? I haven't looked at the fingers as yet but plan to have a look today.
I really appreciate the input, thank you so much. It's nice to know there are great folks like you guys out there.
Clinton

[Clinton]

Hi Stingray70, Yes the idle is down and there are no abstractions which would cause it to stay at a fast idle.

[Doug Linden]

Just to confirm, with engine off, if you put the transmission IN 1st, and push the clutch to the floor, does the engine start right up with no problem.
Just checking to see if the clutch disc is stuck to the flywheel.

[Clinton]

yes I have no problem putting her in gear at a stand still.
Well I just went out the check the throughout bearing and to see how far the fingers are away from the housing at the top I started the car and put it in first gear, no problem, let off the clutch 2/3 of the travel and she start to move. I took her out of gear and noticed that the throughout bearing was still rotating, all be it not very fast. So I shut the engine down and check for free play in the pedal and it was the 1", at closer inspection, I noticed the spring that pulls the throughout bearing looked like it was at the wrong angle so I took a hold of it and on the end that hooks to the casing was broken off. I'm thinking, that's not correct and could be my problem. What say you guys? I was so excited I didn't look to see if I could just buy a new and attach it ... or do I have to pull the transmission?

[J Franklin]

If it is the spring that is broken just buy another one.

[Clinton]

yep

[Jim/GA]

Originally Posted by Clinton

Hi Stingray70, Yes the idle is down and there are no abstractions which would cause it to stay at a fast idle.

If you have not done so already, oil the 2 holes in the top of the throttle assembly, along the back of the engine. They are often overlooked. They can cause a sticky throttle that you are not aware of.

[Clinton]

Thanks Jim ... done that.

[Clinton]

I was sitting here thinking and I remember the first time I took her down the street which was after I put in the new shifter, I was going about two mph turning around and I heard a thump, thump, thump ... which sounded like when you get a bit of tread which is coming off the tire when your going much faster than I was ... it alarmed me and I immediately stopped and got out and walked around the car checking the tires which were OK. I got back into the car and drove the half block home and I don't remember hearing it again. I was more concerned with the front brakes which were grabbing so bad at the slightest brake pressure, it through you forward, I forgot about the thumping. I don't remember if the gears were grinding I don't think so because I think I would have put that to memory as a major fix as I did the brakes. I don't think I changed gears on the way home as I didn't have but half a block to go and as I said, at a stop the car goes into gear smoothly. What do you guys think. Have any of you heard of something letting go that might cause my problem?

[J Franklin]

Yes, re-read post # 6. That casting can break and cause the trouble you are having.

[Clinton]

I checked the shifting linkage and all is in good order. But good to be sure.

One of our club members got back to me today and gave me the name of a member who does work on the members cars. He was very kind and said he would be happy to come over to my house as have a look. So I think I am at a stand still until he has a look. I will keep you posted as to the diagnosis. Thanks fellas.

[nkaminar]

Thanks Clinton for keeping us informed and for the feedback. The mechanic will be able to tell you if you have the stock clutch or not. Most likely stock.

[Clinton]

Hi guys, well it was an idle problem, too fast. I have my other Model A at an idle the same or even a bit faster and she shifts just fine so I guess the coupe' doesn't like the faster idle. She's so pretty I'll give her her way. I also have bit of a carb. problem with the stalling if the idle is too low so I will address that as well. I had wonderful advice regarding this thread and I am most grateful to all of you. Many time you guys asked if the idle was slowing down and I said yes but I had never run across a Model A that was that sensitive and I have owned quite a few in my fifty five plus years of driving them. I guess it's a matter of ... this old dog needs to learn some new tricks ...
Thank again to all of you, what a wonderful hobby.

[JoeCB]

You mentioned "double clutching" , I have been thinking about this for a while. My 31 Coupe wants too grind badly before the trans oil (600W - 1500) warms up. After driving a mile or so, no problems, shifts very smoothly. To minimize the "cold" grind issue, I find that double clutching does the trick. Now about double clutching that many may not realize. The technique is different when shifting UP as opposed to DOWN SHIFTING. When UP shifting, cycle the clutch once as the shifter goes thru neutral with NO acceleration of the engine. When down shifting one must "blip" the engine speed to match up the gears. Blipping the engine during UP shifting only exacerbates the gear speed mis-match. Try it , you will like it !
Joe B

[Shiloh]

Just want to say thank you for responding as to what the problem was. So many times folks ask questions and a lot of advice goes out but many times folks don’t comeback and tell us what the resolve was. Now that you’ve done that we all know another thing to check if we run across the same problem one day!

[Phil Brown]

Originally Posted by JoeCB

Blipping the engine during UP shifting only exacerbates the gear speed mis-match.

Same as too high of an idle

[Model "A" Fords]

Originally Posted by JoeCB

When UP shifting, cycle the clutch once as the shifter goes thru neutral with NO acceleration of the engine. When down shifting one must "blip" the engine speed to match up the gears. Joe B

Never thought how it actually worked but must have learned this watching dad drive the phaeton 60 years ago. Thanks for the memories Joe!