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Old 05-24-2017, 10:56 AM   #1
aviator37
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Default ultimate 600w replacement

Here is a picture and spec sheet for lubriplate SPO299. After wayyyyyy overthinking this, I finally found what I think I like. My bench testing indicates SAE 240 and acts just like what I took out of my transmission. I even tasted it to make sure it was not molasses. Let me know what you think. I will run this in my transmission and steering box, put on my 1930's outfit and drive it around.

https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/pictu...ictureid=38146

https://www.lubriplate.com/Lubriplat...b81fb686a6.pdf
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Old 05-24-2017, 11:12 AM   #2
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Default Re: ultimate 600w replacement

have also used SPO 288 for years which was touted as being the top end of SAE 140 wt. (see attached chart posted in prior posts)

Last edited by duke36; 09-06-2017 at 07:04 PM.
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Old 05-24-2017, 11:49 AM   #3
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Default Re: ultimate 600w replacement

Note that I used the SPO299 which is the SAE 250. The SPO299 is SUS 5050.

Last edited by aviator37; 05-24-2017 at 12:08 PM.
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Old 05-24-2017, 11:51 AM   #4
Kevin in NJ
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Default Re: ultimate 600w replacement

Might not be the correct oil, I suggest some more research to be sure.
Keep in mind the A uses straight cut gears that have extreme pressure. None of them have a swiping motion.

LUBRIPLATE SPO Lubricants
provide a tacky, superior lubricating
film for high-sliding action in worm, bevel, helical and
spur gears as well as machine ways, chains etc.

The whole paper

You have to look at the specs. The Model A need high pressure lubricant that does not squeeze out. They make two types of oils you need the one for the heavy pressure.

For example:
The Mobilgear 600 XP Series are extra high performance gear oils having outstanding extreme pressure characteristics and load-carrying properties, intended for use in all types of enclosed gear drives with circulation or splash lubrication systems

Link to full paper

Now will the Lubriplate stuff work (how do we define work)? I do not have a fact based answer (I have a feeling it should as the wording is pretty close to the Mobile except they say it is for sliding gears so it might not be written properly). You would have to do some testing. We do know certain oils are correct and were researched in detail by Marco's and others (yes I am only repeat others documented research). We have people saying the other oil 'work' but we do not know how well as no one has done anything scientific. By other oils, some are using STP and mixes involving STP and such.

My only goal is to point out we do know some correct modern oils (I have posted Marco's response in the past) and we do know what the oil needs to be to be correct. It likely does not cost much more to get the exact correct thing, but it is your car.
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Last edited by Kevin in NJ; 05-24-2017 at 12:00 PM.
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Old 05-24-2017, 11:57 AM   #5
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Default Re: ultimate 600w replacement

I am also experimenting with Mullen Circle Brand #2312. Here is a spec sheet. This product is SUS 6000. The next step up from this "semi fluid".

http://www.mullenoil.com/images/Lit-Ind-Gear-Worm.pdf
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Old 05-24-2017, 12:03 PM   #6
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Default Re: ultimate 600w replacement

I've used both the 299 [250wgt] and 288 [140 wgt] for quite a few years now and don't see much difference between the 2. Seem to work fine.
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Old 05-24-2017, 12:15 PM   #7
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Default Re: ultimate 600w replacement

I'm thinking the ISO needs to be 1000 to 1500. 680 does not seem thick enough.
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Old 05-24-2017, 12:30 PM   #8
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Default Re: ultimate 600w replacement

It's not just about the weight (viscosity), although that does impact everything else. It's about the ability to withstand the pressures seen on the faces of straight cut gears.

We know that the Mobil oil is designed for the extreme pressure applications of straight cut gears (as opposed to a more modern "hypoid cut" gear, where the gear teeth slide on each other).

If you really want to confirm that if the oil is going to work, you need to run it under load for quite a while and then tear down and look for and measure signs of wear. This is what your major lubes companies do in their labs, in cooperation with vehicle manufacturers and organizations like the SAE.
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Old 05-24-2017, 02:24 PM   #9
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Default Re: ultimate 600w replacement

Aren't the spur gears (referenced by Lubriplate SPO) and straight cut gears the same thing?
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Old 05-24-2017, 02:40 PM   #10
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Default Re: ultimate 600w replacement

The stuff you like is too thick, ISO 1000. It will freeze your transmission up in cold weather and make it impossible to shift. I think I used the 460 vis stuff and the 680 was too thick. At one time I bought 5 gallons of each.
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Old 05-24-2017, 02:42 PM   #11
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Default Re: ultimate 600w replacement

A note about the 680 designation.

The 680 is not the weight of the oil. It is the type of oil.

I think it is like a 140 viscosity at one of the temps of the 680.
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Old 05-24-2017, 02:45 PM   #12
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Default Re: ultimate 600w replacement

680 is the ISO viscosity of the oil cSt 100F. It is not the weight of the oil or the type.
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Old 05-24-2017, 03:36 PM   #13
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Default Re: ultimate 600w replacement

Quote:
Originally Posted by ursus View Post
Aren't the spur gears (referenced by Lubriplate SPO) and straight cut gears the same thing?
Yes
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Old 05-24-2017, 03:41 PM   #14
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Default Re: ultimate 600w replacement

Shouldn't we be using a little lighter oil in the rear, constant meshing of the gears? Is the heavier oil really needed in the rear end? Seems yo me that the heavier oil just drains off HP with no noticable gain. Has anyone ever dyno run tests on this?
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Old 05-24-2017, 04:36 PM   #15
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Default Re: ultimate 600w replacement

1932 Service Bulletins suggest using 140wt gear oil.

680 gear oil is closer to SAE 250wt (seems same as what Snyder's sell)

460 gear oil is closer to SAE 140wt.

I couldn't shift thru 680 at temps below 40 degrees.

460 was better and still 'smoother' still seems the Bratton's offering.

This was all in a '28 multi-disc tranny which seems to be more sensitive to shift points than a single disc.

Helpful ??, your mileage may vary, JB
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Old 05-24-2017, 06:13 PM   #16
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Default Re: ultimate 600w replacement

see the viscosity chart; the Lubr. 299 may be closer to SAE 140. I spoke to Lubriplate rep's in the 1980's and they said this stuff could be used in straight cut gears in steam engines. We bought some 140 wt. gear oil in 5 gallons and use it in mid 30's cars that call for 160 wt. from the period. Note that we don't use it in hypoid rearends such as '37 and beyond Chrysler Corp. products.
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Old 05-24-2017, 07:34 PM   #17
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Default Re: ultimate 600w replacement

As said above...Spur gears and straight cut gears are the same. I use Lubriplate gear oils exclusively. Thank you very much!
Brian W.
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Old 05-24-2017, 09:05 PM   #18
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Default Re: ultimate 600w replacement

All the technical stuff aside I guarantee no one is going to wear out the gears in a car as long as some type of lubricant is used. On the practical side 90-140 wt. gear oil will work just fine. I'd you want a little something extra put in a shot of Lucas.
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Old 05-25-2017, 11:25 AM   #19
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Default Re: ultimate 600w replacement

I always use a shot of STP to thicken.
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Old 05-25-2017, 09:00 PM   #20
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Default Re: ultimate 600w replacement

That's point! The oil in the rear doesn't need to be thicker. Std 140/90 should be thick enough! ( Should be ?). They're in constant mesh.
The Transmission is a different colored horse. The gears need heavy viscosity to shift properly.
Terry

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I always use a shot of STP to thicken.
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Old 05-26-2017, 10:13 AM   #21
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Default Re: ultimate 600w replacement

My various charts show ISO 1000 to be in the SAE 250 range.
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Old 05-26-2017, 10:50 AM   #22
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Default Re: ultimate 600w replacement

EP (Extreme Pressure) lubricants should not be needed in a Model A.

They are essential for Hypoid rear-ends, which were developed later-on.

Model A just has spiral-bevel in the rear.

Straight-cut spur-gears in the tranny.
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