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Old 05-31-2013, 06:43 AM   #1
donh
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Default MAFCA lawsuit

Anyone have an update on the pending legal action in CA?
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Old 05-31-2013, 07:05 AM   #2
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I heard... Meaning idk if it's true or not 100%. But I heard the lawsuit got settled. I don't know if it ever made it to court, I think what I heard was that Mafca and the individuals family settled out of court, because the cost of settling was better than paying the court and legal fees. It's kind of a shame that someone one sue Mafca like that. And I truly do feel sorry for the individuals family for loosing a loved one. But it seems like someone was just trying to milk if for all its worth.
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Old 05-31-2013, 07:29 AM   #3
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Default Re: MAFCA lawsuit

What was the event that happened if I may ask?
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Old 05-31-2013, 07:33 AM   #4
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Default Re: MAFCA lawsuit

Is this something different that the problem from about 5 years ago?
I think in that one a guy was hit by a golf cart.
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Old 05-31-2013, 07:47 AM   #5
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Default Re: MAFCA lawsuit

I have a better idea , 1. reform tort laws . 2., eliminate Liars, uh er Lawyers !
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Old 05-31-2013, 08:24 AM   #6
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So wait, someone unfortunately was killed driving their Model A on a MAFCA meet and the family sued MAFCA because of it? What sense does that make other than wanting money? How is it MAFCA's fault they were in an accident and killed? Wouldn't you go after the driver involved in the accident?
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Old 05-31-2013, 08:47 AM   #7
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Default Re: MAFCA lawsuit

Just reviewed the last issue of "The Restorer" March/April that I have. All it states is "We are unable to discuss details since it is still active". No mention of any settlement. Maybe it is in the May/June issue that has arrived yet
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Old 05-31-2013, 08:53 AM   #8
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Default Re: MAFCA lawsuit

People want a risk free world. If we could eliminate insurance fraud, rates would go down for everyone. Lawyers will sue anyone who had anything to do with it. Of course, there could be negligence involved, so it is good to know the facts. It's sad when a not-for-profit volunteer organization suffers, but that is why we have insurance.
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Old 05-31-2013, 09:37 AM   #9
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Default Re: MAFCA lawsuit

As I understand it, it was his kids that sued Mafca. His wife didnt want any blame placed on them. But I guess the kids took it upon themselves to go ahead and sue them. If I understand the story that I was told, the guy was out driving his A on a club tour, or something of that sort. Got hit from behind by a car on the interstate. The door flung open, and he fell out. It's a sad reality of the world that we live in today. People are just that greedy that they would sue an organization like Mafca, when the guy took it upon himself to drive the car. Mafca wasnt forcing him too. But it is another example as to why everybody should put seat belts in their A's, regardless if it is correct or not. You can make seat belts look really nice inside of a model A. Anybody that gets out and drives their A's with this modern traffic without a belt is asking for trouble.
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Old 05-31-2013, 10:28 AM   #10
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Default Re: MAFCA lawsuit

I believe that Logan has it right. I also thing it has been settled but don't know any of the details. Yes, it is a bummer!
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Old 05-31-2013, 10:32 AM   #11
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Humble Opinion:

Sadly, in 2013, right or wrong does not matter any more with most U. S. citizens, & morals do not matter any more with most U. S. citizens today either.

If one has insurance, there are some greedy reptile type lawyers who are going to sue to get insurance money no matter what.

Its like a gambling game today, similar to going to the court house to play the Court House Cash Register.

These maggot juice lawyer types make all of the other lawyers look bad; however, many honest lawyers do not agree with these legal money grabbing thieves -- they already know who they are in every community.

The insurance company looks at all of these law suits strictly like a necessary business decision to remain in business:

a. Option 1: Is to hire good lawyers to go to court to pay thousands of dollars to prove that their client was right; or,

b. Option 2: Settle out of court for a lot less money, even though they know their client is not guilty.

c. Option 2 occurs more than 90% of the time & clients are never happy while knowing they did nothing wrong.

Like so many other true American patriots who see what is on the future, Un-United State's horizon with our current U. S. lying leaders acting like dictators, I just continue to try to encourage others to exercise their right as citizens to vote, & vote wisely.

The MAFCA officials & all of the MAFCA members know deep down that MAFCA was never guilty for the careless act of any vehicle driver.

Just had a somewhat similar experience -- fact of life -- just learned to live with it.
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Old 05-31-2013, 11:23 AM   #12
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Default Re: MAFCA lawsuit

I think you pretty much sumed it up H.L.
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Old 05-31-2013, 11:53 AM   #13
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Default Re: MAFCA lawsuit

These links tell about the accident.



#13 Mike V. Florida
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Re: MAFCA lawsuit question
It is the Speer lawsuit,

http://milpitas.patch.com/articles/e...l-a-enthusiast
More details

http://findmyaccident.com/california...a-in-mariposa/

http://www.contracostatimes.com/rss/...482?source=rss

I see no reason for a law suit against MAFCA based on these reports. He was stopped and another car was hit and forced into him. He did nothing and for sure the club did nothing. Again in this country you can sue anyone for any reason as long as you want to pay a lawyer. It is the lawyers that have nothing to lose and everything to gain!

MAFCA calls it the "Speer Lawsuit" but I'm unable to find out who is exactly sueing MAFCA. Is it one of the drivers or the Speer family?

Remember the woman that bought hot coffee, placed it between her legs while driving and won money because it was hot and burned her?
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Last edited by Mike V. Florida; 01-17-2013 at 09:37 AM.
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Old 05-31-2013, 12:30 PM   #14
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Default Re: MAFCA lawsuit

In a ridiculous MAFCA settlement like this, the good & honest lawyer for the insurance company, (who the insurance company uses time & time again), always stipulates in the agreement signed by all parties that this law suit matter is not to be discussed further in order to further protect the insurance company & their client from these gold diggers.

The opposing reptile lawyer who sued never disagrees.

He would probably offer to go to a zoo & sleep (5) nights with a nasty, stinking hippo with loose bowels to get his cash.

Most of his clients are probably on welfare also looking for big bucks -- they would volunteer for the hippo deal also -- all modern day birds of a feather type -- buzzards to be more exact.
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Old 05-31-2013, 01:13 PM   #15
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Default Re: MAFCA lawsuit

UH,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,I take it you don't care for scam lawyers H.L.
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Old 05-31-2013, 01:22 PM   #16
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Default Re: MAFCA lawsuit

Wow what is this country coming to? The worst part is he wasn't even at the MAFCA event yet, he was on his way, and MAFCA still gets sued.
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Old 05-31-2013, 02:59 PM   #17
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Default Re: MAFCA lawsuit

There was a big write up on this in the last restorer. It's settled.
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Old 05-31-2013, 03:42 PM   #18
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Default Re: MAFCA lawsuit

It was probably cheaper for MAFCA to settle, than it would have been to go to court and try to fight against it. In California, they have some weird law about who pays the court fees, but I can't remember what it is now. But that is probably why it was just cheaper to do it out of court.
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Old 05-31-2013, 06:04 PM   #19
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In trying to respond to the gentleman in reply #16, after sharing a small office building with a criminal lawyer for over 15 years, he & I became very close trustworthy friends until today.

In the early years he cooked every Friday afternoon & invited several of his young lawyer friends over to eat, & like any other small group, descent people enjoy the company of other good honest people; hence, I met some of the most sincere, compassionate lawyers & their families for whom I still have profound respect today.

Some later became responsible judges. These guys knew the very few lawyer shady characters who were never invited on Friday afternoons.

For people who try to do what is right, there is nothing like having a few good honest lawyer friends with integrity when you really need one -- also, many judges learn quickly who to believe in a court room.

I feel certain MAFCA chose a trustworthy attorney to fight this present "System" we all endure -- appears life is not always fair, & we should try to be prepared to take the bumps along with smooth sailing.
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Old 05-31-2013, 06:09 PM   #20
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Agreed.
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Old 05-31-2013, 07:59 PM   #21
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Default Re: MAFCA lawsuit

I wanna know who the judges are who actually award this stuff and dont just throw it out...

I can see sueing the truuck driver for not paying attention as he was the sole cause of this accident. The girl wasnt breaking any laws by (i assume signalling) and waiting for the cross traffic to clear ( model A group) so i dont see how she could be sued at all. Especially not the MAFCA group... doesnt even make sense.... it would be like suing walmart because you were on your way to thier store... or suing autozone because you were going to buy thier oil...
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Old 06-01-2013, 10:04 AM   #22
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The reason why every Tom Dick and Harry gets improperly named in litigation is to prevent the opposing side from claiming that essential parties have been omitted, and insurance company attorneys do it as much as anyone else. It is one of these hypocritical situations in society where everyone bemoans the lack of integrity in other people, but are reluctant to stick their own neck out for those ideals.

If we are to believe the consensus here, the ultimate culprits are from our own Model "A" extended family.
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Old 06-01-2013, 06:35 PM   #23
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I think that the solution is really rather simple. Just have a loser pays law. If you bring a lawsuit and can't win it, you lose and have to pay for everything involved, court costs, both lawyers fees, time lost, etc.
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Old 06-01-2013, 11:15 PM   #24
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Default Re: MAFCA lawsuit

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Originally Posted by Bob C View Post

Remember the woman that bought hot coffee, placed it between her legs while driving and won money because it was hot and burned her?
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This case always strikes a nerve when cited as a good example of why there should be so-called tort reform. I dunno, maybe it's a lifetime of working as an investigative reporter sorting the truth from the spin, maybe it's the experience of working for those "fair and balanced" broadcasters who pressured me to use the public airways to deliberately lie to viewers. Whatever it is, before you, too, swallow the spin on the "McDonald's hot coffee lawsuit" take a look at the actual facts of the case here:

http://www.citizen.org/hot-coffee

And, just for fun, see a lawyer's perspective here:

http://www.colbertnation.com/the-col...susan-saladoff

Just sayin'...you can't always believe what you hear, and sometimes not even what you THINK you see!
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Old 06-01-2013, 11:37 PM   #25
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Default Re: MAFCA lawsuit

Yea i knew the hot coffee thing was a tad hokey. I still wanna know why ANY place seems to think serving coffee that hot is a good idea...
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Old 06-01-2013, 11:57 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sgwilson904 View Post
This case always strikes a nerve when cited as a good example of why there should be so-called tort reform. I dunno, maybe it's a lifetime of working as an investigative reporter sorting the truth from the spin, maybe it's the experience of working for those "fair and balanced" broadcasters who pressured me to use the public airways to deliberately lie to viewers. Whatever it is, before you, too, swallow the spin on the "McDonald's hot coffee lawsuit" take a look at the actual facts of the case here:

http://www.citizen.org/hot-coffee

And, just for fun, see a lawyer's perspective here:

http://www.colbertnation.com/the-col...susan-saladoff

Just sayin'...you can't always believe what you hear, and sometimes not even what you THINK you see!
Since you brought it back up (mcdonalds) The coffee was always served at that temp. Unless the woman never bought a coffee from them she knew it was hot but yet she did not remove the lid from the coffee away from her body. No she placed it in the most sensitive area of the body and must have used two hands to remove the lid that was designed to stay on and prevent burns. Hot liquids burn and being almost 80 years old she must have known that.

Sorry your links just reinforced my belief that the injury was was her fault, if she ordered orange juice and she was burned doing the same thing then that would be different.
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Old 06-02-2013, 12:37 AM   #27
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Thanks, sgwilson, for bringing up the facts on the McDonald's case, but as I am sure you know, myth and opinion trump reality and facts every time.
And thanks ericr for pointing out the reason eveyone in sight is sued. Those "good and honest" lawyers for the insurance companies, paid by the hour, will always point the finger of blame at someone else. Any competent lawyer has to shut down that tactic. Maybe it is all the family's fault, for hiring a competent lawyer whose duty is to his clients, not MAFCA, the insurance companies, or the public.
I don't know if the suit against MAFCA had any merit or not, but anyone who relies on newspaper reports, blogs or stories from someone who heard something to make that decision is playing a fools game. None of those have the knowledge, experience, interest or time to analyze a lawsuit. But everyone is up for a good story, and lawyer bashing exceeds even politician bashing as an American pastime. Hey, even lawyers do it.
The insurance companies have a vested interested in spreading the myth that frivolous lawsuits are killing us all. AIG and other insurance companies took your tax dollar for bailouts that had nothing to do with frivolous lawsuits and everything to do with making bad investments with your premium dollars, but they won't tell you that. Ask your agent about it the next time your premiums go up. He or she will blame "the lawyers," not the bosses.
So that's my rant and I'm sticking to it.
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Old 06-02-2013, 01:22 AM   #28
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Since you brought it back up (mcdonalds) The coffee was always served at that temp. Unless the woman never bought a coffee from them she knew it was hot but yet she did not remove the lid from the coffee away from her body. No she placed it in the most sensitive area of the body and must have used two hands to remove the lid that was designed to stay on and prevent burns. Hot liquids burn and being almost 80 years old she must have known that.

Sorry your links just reinforced my belief that the injury was was her fault, if she ordered orange juice and she was burned doing the same thing then that would be different.
My texas government class did a research report on this mcdonalds case, and I can assure you she deserved every penny. All she wanted was for them to pay the medical treatment for the case, but they wouldn't so she sued them. But since she sued, the jury got to decide her amount, and they are the ones that rewarded her the money. She never wanted the large amount, but ended up benefitting her because she was never able to regain the strength she had before the burns, and had to be put into a nursing home pre-maturely. But it was so hot, that it gave her 3 & 4 degree burns. Even if she'd tried to drink it, it would have scorched her throat. There is no reason for coffee to be that hot. I'm sorry... but get your lower half of your body burned to the bone in hot coffee and I'm sure you'd have a different opinion (I've seen the pictures, it's nothing I would wish on anyone).

Not trying to start an argument, but until you've got and read ALL the facts, don't bash someone. It was a very tragic case and it was very unfortunate how it horribly wounded her. She had to have reconstructive plastic surgery.
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Old 06-02-2013, 01:59 AM   #29
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My texas government class did a research report on this mcdonalds case, and I can assure you she deserved every penny. All she wanted was for them to pay the medical treatment for the case, but they wouldn't so she sued them. But since she sued, the jury got to decide her amount, and they are the ones that rewarded her the money. She never wanted the large amount, but ended up benefitting her because she was never able to regain the strength she had before the burns, and had to be put into a nursing home pre-maturely. But it was so hot, that it gave her 3 & 4 degree burns. Even if she'd tried to drink it, it would have scorched her throat. There is no reason for coffee to be that hot. I'm sorry... but get your lower half of your body burned to the bone in hot coffee and I'm sure you'd have a different opinion (I've seen the pictures, it's nothing I would wish on anyone).

Not trying to start an argument, but until you've got and read ALL the facts, don't bash someone. It was a very tragic case and it was very unfortunate how it horribly wounded her. She had to have reconstructive plastic surgery.
There is no question she was hurt and hurt bad but your comment "I can assure you she deserved every penny." Why? She place a hot coffee cup where it did not belong, she pried the top off the hot coffee when it was between her legs. Would a reasonable person knowing that the coffee was as hot as every other McDonald's place it there and remove the top allowing the coffee to spill? I'm sorry I'm one for personal responsibility. Every thing is not someones else's fault. Was the coffee hotter than on any other day? no. Was the coffee hotter than any other McDonald's? No.

The National Coffee Association said that the temperature of McDonald's coffee conformed to industry standards.

The jury felt sorry for the old lady and felt the big corporation had the money to pay her. Let me ask you this, how many other successful lawsuits have there been against anyone that serves hot beverages?

Similar lawsuits against McDonald's in England failed. In Bogle v. McDonald’s Restaurants Ltd., for the same temperature coffee as used in the above case.
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Old 06-02-2013, 09:50 AM   #30
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There is no question she was hurt and hurt bad but your comment "I can assure you she deserved every penny." Why? She place a hot coffee cup where it did not belong, she pried the top off the hot coffee when it was between her legs. Would a reasonable person knowing that the coffee was as hot as every other McDonald's place it there and remove the top allowing the coffee to spill? I'm sorry I'm one for personal responsibility. Every thing is not someones else's fault.
Mike, sounds like your mind is set on this and none of the facts will change it. Please just consider these reasons why the woman may well have deserved every penny and why, sometimes, these "frivolous" suits are not so frivolous at all.

1. For at least 10 years, McDonald's knew its coffee, when served at 180-190 degrees, was causing severe burns. In that period, more than 700 were severely burned from spills, including children and infants. And not all of them brought the trouble on themselves due to what you might think was their own stupidity. Sometimes a McDonalds employee would spill it on a customer. The company did nothing.

2. Sure, personal responsibility is important. The jury found--and the judge agreed--the victim here was 20% responsible for the spill. Never mind the temp, she should have known better, you say. And how many people who need to add sugar and/or cream to the coffee just handed to them at the drive-thru pull safely to the side of the road to get out and add it?

3. But more important, ANY product we buy is, by law, required to be fit for the purpose for which it is sold. With food, that means it must be fit for consumption. Coffee served at 190 degrees is not fit for consumption. Even if you don't spill it, it's a third-degree burn waiting to happen. This is not the opinion of the "old woman's money-grubbing, scumbag lawyer." McDonalds admitted this in court. The company also admitted consumers are not warned and are unaware the temperature of the coffee is SO hot it poses a risk. (What? You don't carry a thermometer to check it before you drink? You expect it to be about the 30-40 degrees cooler, the same temp as it is virtually everywhere else in town where you buy hot coffee? How negligent and irresponsible of YOU!)

4. The "McDonalds coffee woman" was never out looking for a so-called jury jackpot from a bunch of stupid citizens who might take pity on a poor, elderly woman. She and her lawyer would have been happy to settle the case for just $20,000--the amount of her medical bills that were not covered by her insurance. No, McDonalds said, here's $800, take it or leave it. THAT'S what prompted the lawsuit. In fact, the way the company acted and how it dealt with its own issue of personal/corporate responsibility was summed up in a single word: callous. That's what the appellate judge decided, not me.

5. Finally, keep this in mind: burns from liquids this hot is not just a minor inconvenience and a little temporary pain. 190-degree coffee causes the worst kind of a burn (third degree) in three to seven SECONDS. It causes not only disfiguration but years and sometimes a lifetime of pain and suffering and permanent disability. It can only be treated with very expensive skin grafting, special whirlpool treatments, and plastic surgery.

Yes, the woman should not have opened hot coffee in the car. Had it been served at 130 degrees instead of 190 as McDonalds insisted, she would have suffered briefly and learned a lesson that she should have known by her age anyway...BUT she wouldn't have been in the worst kind of unbearable pain, scarred for life and in suffering for her final years.

All things considered, NOW do you think she might have deserved every penny? And aren't you glad there was SOMEONE to help her stand up for herself, even though you may have thought of of personal injury lawyers as money-grubbing scumbags?
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Old 06-02-2013, 10:05 AM   #31
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Yea i knew the hot coffee thing was a tad hokey. I still wanna know why ANY place seems to think serving coffee that hot is a good idea...
In all due respect, I felt the same way and at first. I am in medicine, and was at a case review. The issue was that the McDonalds does what many others do. To make coffee faster, the have the water under pressure, so rather than boiling at 212, it boils hotter. In this case I believe 300. So the burn was unbelievable. All her skin was removed, the photos were horrible.
She deserved every cent.
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Old 06-02-2013, 10:11 AM   #32
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A local hospital was just sued because the x-ray the patient got removed her ability to see into the future. She is a Fortune teller by trade. Jury award, $1 million, judge lowered to $600,000, now in appeal to get the full million.
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Old 06-02-2013, 10:32 AM   #33
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Gentlemen, I never realized that asking a simple question about the outcome of a MAFCA lawsuit could end up in left field of a different ball park!! For those that supplied info on the original issue..thank you
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Old 06-02-2013, 10:44 AM   #34
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Gentlemen, I never realized that asking a simple question about the outcome of a MAFCA lawsuit could end up in left field of a different ball park!! For those that supplied info on the original issue..thank you
Oh, but for the wanderings of human thought.

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Old 06-02-2013, 10:54 AM   #35
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600,000 for a burn on my legs? I could probably live with that. But my nut sack? Well that might cost a little more.
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Old 06-02-2013, 11:18 AM   #36
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More than a dozen replies in the last two days-and no one addresses the topic. Can we PLEASE leave the coffee alone and actually talk about the topic??
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Old 06-02-2013, 12:02 PM   #37
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Agreed. Can someone clean out this thread and leave the pertinent material?

Joe K
You got a point. I'm still waiting to hear if the local or national actually paid out anything to the claimants. If either did, that was wrong and serves only to propel the situations people are complaining about. Also, it was equally wrong for the claimants to pursue either club in the first instance. And if the details somehow become a required secret from club members themselves, it appears to me about everyone involved has some degree of culpability.
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Old 06-02-2013, 08:00 PM   #38
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More than a dozen replies in the last two days-and no one addresses the topic. Can we PLEASE leave the coffee alone and actually talk about the topic??
Welcome to Fordbarn!

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Old 06-02-2013, 09:22 PM   #39
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Mike, the hot coffee lawsuit was thrown out in the appeals process and McD's won.

remember, America today is not what it was.... unfortunately.
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Old 06-03-2013, 12:32 AM   #40
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Whatever you think, remember this all happened in California.
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Old 06-03-2013, 12:53 AM   #41
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Whatever you think, remember this all happened in California.
whatever that is supposed to mean, the money grubbing plaintiffs and their lawyer are from Alabama.
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Old 06-03-2013, 01:27 AM   #42
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Mike, sounds like your mind is set on this and none of the facts will change it. Please just consider these reasons why the woman may well have deserved every penny and why, sometimes, these "frivolous" suits are not so frivolous at all.

1. For at least 10 years, McDonald's knew its coffee, when served at 180-190 degrees, was causing severe burns. In that period, more than 700 were severely burned from spills, including children and infants. And not all of them brought the trouble on themselves due to what you might think was their own stupidity. Sometimes a McDonalds employee would spill it on a customer. The company did nothing.

130 degree water will cause 3rd degree burns if skin is exposed for 30 secs of more. It was brought up at trial that cotton pants kept the hot coffee in contact with the skin so 130 would have caused burns as well.

2. Sure, personal responsibility is important. The jury found--and the judge agreed--the victim here was 20% responsible for the spill. Never mind the temp, she should have known better, you say. And how many people who need to add sugar and/or cream to the coffee just handed to them at the drive-thru pull safely to the side of the road to get out and add it?

They all should if they want to prevent being burned! The fact that the temp was coporate wide means that unless it was her first time evey buying coffee there she knew it was extreamly hot when she bought it.


3. But more important, ANY product we buy is, by law, required to be fit for the purpose for which it is sold. With food, that means it must be fit for consumption. Coffee served at 190 degrees is not fit for consumption. Even if you don't spill it, it's a third-degree burn waiting to happen. This is not the opinion of the "old woman's money-grubbing, scumbag lawyer." McDonalds admitted this in court. The company also admitted consumers are not warned and are unaware the temperature of the coffee is SO hot it poses a risk. (What? You don't carry a thermometer to check it before you drink? You expect it to be about the 30-40 degrees cooler, the same temp as it is virtually everywhere else in town where you buy hot coffee? How negligent and irresponsible of YOU!)

190 degree coffee is up to industry standards and since millions if not billions of cups sold at that temp means someone in consuming it.

4. The "McDonalds coffee woman" was never out looking for a so-called jury jackpot from a bunch of stupid citizens who might take pity on a poor, elderly woman. She and her lawyer would have been happy to settle the case for just $20,000--the amount of her medical bills that were not covered by her insurance. No, McDonalds said, here's $800, take it or leave it. THAT'S what prompted the lawsuit. In fact, the way the company acted and how it dealt with its own issue of personal/corporate responsibility was summed up in a single word: callous. That's what the appellate judge decided, not me.

She might not have been but the fact that the suit was brought showed someone was. As for the appellate judge that too is his opinion. If I sell something, anything that meets industry standards I can't see how selling it be callous.

5. Finally, keep this in mind: burns from liquids this hot is not just a minor inconvenience and a little temporary pain. 190-degree coffee causes the worst kind of a burn (third degree) in three to seven SECONDS. It causes not only disfiguration but years and sometimes a lifetime of pain and suffering and permanent disability. It can only be treated with very expensive skin grafting, special whirlpool treatments, and plastic surgery.

No arguement there! Who is responsible for the burns is. You are focused on the womans injuries and not on who is responsible.

Yes, the woman should not have opened hot coffee in the car. Had it been served at 130 degrees instead of 190 as McDonalds insisted, she would have suffered briefly and learned a lesson that she should have known by her age anyway...BUT she wouldn't have been in the worst kind of unbearable pain, scarred for life and in suffering for her final years.

Not true, 130 degree water will cause 3rd degree burns if skin is exposed for 30 secs of more. It was brought up at trial that cotton pants kept the hot coffee in contact with the skin, so 130 would have caused burns as well. 190 degree coffee is the industry standard. Whos standards should they follow the beverage industry or the publics?

All things considered, NOW do you think she might have deserved every penny? And aren't you glad there was SOMEONE to help her stand up for herself, even though you may have thought of of personal injury lawyers as money-grubbing scumbags?

No I don't for the reasons stated several times.
This McDonalds lawsuit has more merit than the MAFCA suit in my opinion.

I have now stated my position several times on this. No more, so get your final word in now. If you want to discuss this off line fine by me I will answer any question you or anyone has via PM or email or even phone if you want just not here anymore.
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Old 06-03-2013, 06:59 AM   #43
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A local hospital was just sued because the x-ray the patient got removed her ability to see into the future. She is a Fortune teller by trade. Jury award, $1 million, judge lowered to $600,000, now in appeal to get the full million.
If she could see into the future, she should have known what would happen and refused the x-ray. I call Horseshot on this one.
Just to be on topic, I think we all agree its sad when we lost a fellow A-modeler and then MAFCA gets sued when their is no way they were even remotely responsible. It baffles me how this can be viewed by anybody as "justice".
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Old 06-03-2013, 07:43 AM   #44
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Mike, the hot coffee lawsuit was thrown out in the appeals process and McD's won.
Ahh, no. The jury returned a verdict of $160,000 in actual damages to cover medical expenses...and $2.7 million in punitive damages. The judge then reduced the verdict to $640,000. McDonalds did appeal but before the appeal could be decided, the company settled for a confidential amount. The verdict against McDonalds was never thrown out.

Okay, I'm going back to my Model A now. I promise.
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Old 06-03-2013, 10:16 AM   #45
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A local hospital was just sued because the x-ray the patient got removed her ability to see into the future. She is a Fortune teller by trade. Jury award, $1 million, judge lowered to $600,000, now in appeal to get the full million.
The fortune teller should have seen this coming, and never had the x-ray.
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Old 06-03-2013, 10:29 AM   #46
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She did see the future and figured with the million dollars she could retire.
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Old 06-03-2013, 04:02 PM   #47
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Back to the original issue for a change, I believe that MAFCA was sued because it was a MAFCA organized event....when they are involved in any way in Model A events I believe they have some legal liability and can be brought in. Another point is that in many cases, if there are multiple parties in a lawsuit, than the one "most able" to pay often times gets tagged with the lion's share of cost..........this is called "deep pockets". One last point, after working in the homebuilding industry for over 37 years, you quickly find out that you will lose virtually every case that any homeowner takes you to court on.......the little guy vs. the big company, and trying to litigate it almost always costs much more than settling it early, because you will likely still lose and be responsible for not only your costs, but also the plaintiff. Basically, you cannot win most of those types of cases...in this case, guilt by association would be an apt description.
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Old 06-03-2013, 05:34 PM   #48
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the fortune teller should have seen this coming, and never had the x-ray.:d:d
lol
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Old 06-03-2013, 07:52 PM   #49
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Back to the original issue for a change, I believe that MAFCA was sued because it was a MAFCA organized event....when they are involved in any way in Model A events I believe they have some legal liability and can be brought in. Another point is that in many cases, if there are multiple parties in a lawsuit, than the one "most able" to pay often times gets tagged with the lion's share of cost..........this is called "deep pockets". One last point, after working in the homebuilding industry for over 37 years, you quickly find out that you will lose virtually every case that any homeowner takes you to court on.......the little guy vs. the big company, and trying to litigate it almost always costs much more than settling it early, because you will likely still lose and be responsible for not only your costs, but also the plaintiff. Basically, you cannot win most of those types of cases...in this case, guilt by association would be an apt description.
Terry, I think you are correct!! Not what anyone wants to hear. Becomes a cost of doing business! So the prices rise.
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Old 06-11-2014, 09:41 AM   #50
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Worth a review from the recent discussion about national club's (MARC's) liability issues.
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Old 06-11-2014, 10:55 AM   #51
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Worth a review from the recent discussion about national club's (MARC's) liability issues.
The insurance company decided it was easier (cheaper) to settle then fight. You can decide if it is right or wrong.
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Old 06-11-2014, 11:51 AM   #52
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FWIW: One way to look at LAWSUITS is:

Appears that after graduation from Law School, Lawyers have very well devised a method to divide the Wealth of our Nation:

1. One (1) certain group of Lawyers decide to become LAW MAKERS & get elected to MAKE Laws.

2. The next group of Lawyers later decide to JUDGE the Laws made by the LAW MAKERS.

3. Then the next group of Lawyers decide to become TRIAL LAWYERS to go before the JUDGE LAWYERS to test the Laws made by LAW MAKERS.

4. As Citizens, we watch this Big Circus. Afterwards, our wealth is well divided among all three (3) Lawyer Groups.

5. After losing all belongings, we call a taxi to go live with our relatives.

6. But there is hope ....... another group of small town, self-employed Lawyers will listen to your sob story & render good advice to start over.
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Old 06-11-2014, 12:17 PM   #53
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Wow what is this country coming to? The worst part is he wasn't even at the MAFCA event yet, he was on his way, and MAFCA still gets sued.
Some of my clients are municipalities and when we do design work for them I am required by them to have an insurance rider that covers them in case I am in an accident going to or coming from a meeting, it is ridiculously expensive and doubles my premiums along with some other requirements they have. I am to the point where I am turning down their work because of the costs.
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Old 06-11-2014, 12:20 PM   #54
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Now, can we discuss why the Titanic really sank?

Now that is a long case study............... grins grins and more grins!
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Old 06-11-2014, 12:24 PM   #55
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It's mind boggling to me that any court, anywhere, would not throw this case out based on logic and resonable intelligence.
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Old 06-11-2014, 12:49 PM   #56
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It's mind boggling to me that any court, anywhere, would not throw this case out based on logic and resonable intelligence.
logic and resonable intelligence These are what has been lacking in this country since the greatest generation retired in the 80's

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Old 06-11-2014, 01:07 PM   #57
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Many times these law suits are from an insurance company that has paid a beneficiay...like perhaps his kids...and they subrogate against whomever they can to try and regain some of the money paid to the beneficiaries.

I work in the Trucking industry and it's unbelieveable how often this happens.

Perhaps the worst was a company I know that had a car cross a median and run head on into their truck. The attorney proved that they had exceeded the posted speed limit by as much as three miles per hour on the way to the accident site. They had to pay on the basis of "if you hadn't been speeding your truck would not have been there for our client to hit". Seriously!
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Old 06-11-2014, 01:54 PM   #58
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Gentlemen,
This all comes full circle to the Deep Pockets Ruling that was decided years ago. The individual who hit the car probably did not have anything to make it worth anyone's time to litigate against him or her. So the law says you can go after anyone with any connection to the damage inflicted no matter how distant. Hence the club gets sued. A very sad reality.

The problem is the law. It must be changed in the interest of fairness.
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Old 06-11-2014, 01:58 PM   #59
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As others have stated the case got settled out of court for the reasons stated. It still cost MAFCA a lot of money in lawyer fee's etc to get to that point. As a result of this our Club (and many other clubs) has used MAFCA new Liability document as an example and have asked members that participate in any activity to sign the release from liability document. It should never get to this, but that is the World we live in. Much to our surprise we had a member (1) that refused to sign the document and his given reason was he did not want to sign it in case he needed to sue ??????

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Old 06-11-2014, 02:11 PM   #60
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Let's hope that the judge allowed the plaintiffs to prevail and awarded them $1.00 in damages! It sometimes happens!
Terry

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In trying to respond to the gentleman in reply #16, after sharing a small office building with a criminal lawyer for over 15 years, he & I became very close trustworthy friends until today.

In the early years he cooked every Friday afternoon & invited several of his young lawyer friends over to eat, & like any other small group, descent people enjoy the company of other good honest people; hence, I met some of the most sincere, compassionate lawyers & their families for whom I still have profound respect today.

Some later became responsible judges. These guys knew the very few lawyer shady characters who were never invited on Friday afternoons.

For people who try to do what is right, there is nothing like having a few good honest lawyer friends with integrity when you really need one -- also, many judges learn quickly who to believe in a court room.

I feel certain MAFCA chose a trustworthy attorney to fight this present "System" we all endure -- appears life is not always fair, & we should try to be prepared to take the bumps along with smooth sailing.
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Old 06-11-2014, 04:27 PM   #61
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In trying to respond to the gentleman in reply #16, after sharing a small office building with a criminal lawyer for over 15 years, he & I became very close trustworthy friends until today.

In the early years he cooked every Friday afternoon & invited several of his young lawyer friends over to eat, & like any other small group, descent people enjoy the company of other good honest people; hence, I met some of the most sincere, compassionate lawyers & their families for whom I still have profound respect today.

Some later became responsible judges. These guys knew the very few lawyer shady characters who were never invited on Friday afternoons.

For people who try to do what is right, there is nothing like having a few good honest lawyer friends with integrity when you really need one -- also, many judges learn quickly who to believe in a court room.

I feel certain MAFCA chose a trustworthy attorney to fight this present "System" we all endure -- appears life is not always fair, & we should try to be prepared to take the bumps along with smooth sailing.
so what happened today to change that opinion, I am confused.
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Old 06-11-2014, 08:36 PM   #62
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As I understand it, it was his kids that sued Mafca. His wife didnt want any blame placed on them. But I guess the kids took it upon themselves to go ahead and sue them. If I understand the story that I was told, the guy was out driving his A on a club tour, or something of that sort. Got hit from behind by a car on the interstate. The door flung open, and he fell out. It's a sad reality of the world that we live in today. People are just that greedy that they would sue an organization like Mafca, when the guy took it upon himself to drive the car. Mafca wasnt forcing him too. But it is another example as to why everybody should put seat belts in their A's, regardless if it is correct or not. You can make seat belts look really nice inside of a model A. Anybody that gets out and drives their A's with this modern traffic without a belt is asking for trouble.
why would you drive a Model A on a interstate? why not sue Ford ? they have deeper pockets!
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Old 06-11-2014, 08:45 PM   #63
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why would you drive a Model A on a interstate? why not sue Ford ? they have deeper pockets!
Forget the Model A how about just going to a store in your modern car because of a sale? I see no difference.
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Old 06-11-2014, 09:56 PM   #64
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Hi eric,

My lawyer & judge friends mentioned in my message no. 19 are in the same rural & small town group mentioned in the above paragraph 6. of message 52.

A very dishonest or very careless professional can continue practicing & last forever & ever in a large city because with neighbors not knowing neighbors, bad reports never spread.

In a rural area or very small town, many people know the names of dogs & horses in other people's back yards; one very dishonest or very careless professional screw up & the professional can usually pack his bags, whether elected or not elected.

Also, never saw a small country lawyer who could afford or who would want a National TV Advertisement for seeking clients who would fake getting wounded after taking Testosterone Pills.

Just one opinion; but, hope this helps.

Last edited by H. L. Chauvin; 06-11-2014 at 09:59 PM. Reason: typo
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Old 06-12-2014, 07:14 PM   #65
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These big insurance policy limits draw these suits like flies to sugar. Insurance company just pays and ups the premiums.
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Old 06-12-2014, 07:49 PM   #66
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...opposing reptile lawyer who sued ...would probably offer to go to a zoo & sleep (5) nights with a nasty, stinking hippo with loose bowels...
What do you have against hippos that you would force one to sleep with a lawyer?
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Old 06-12-2014, 11:40 PM   #67
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Hi Skip,

Very good question; but, as far as reptiles & hippos, I always heard that hippos in the wild will very often attack & destroy crocodiles -- humans too ..... whether they passed the Bar Exam or not.

Maybe part of this Wikipedia article can help shed some light; & maybe it can also offer cautious advice to anyone who is shipping their Model A's overseas & contemplating going on a Safari in a Model A.

"Crocodiles are particularly frequent targets of hippo aggression, likely because they often inhabit the same riparian habitats as hippos. Crocodiles may be either aggressively displaced or killed by hippopotamuses.[71] Hippos are also very aggressive towards humans, whom they commonly attack whether in boats or on land with no apparent provocation.[72] They are widely considered to be one of the most dangerous large animals in Africa.[73][74] "

Might be a good idea to leave your more expensive Model A whitewalls at home.

Hope this helps.

Last edited by H. L. Chauvin; 06-12-2014 at 11:43 PM. Reason: typo
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Old 06-13-2014, 09:57 AM   #68
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Might be a good idea to leave your more expensive Model A whitewalls at home.
Whitewalls are history (although they - and the straw-colored wheels - still reside in the parts shed) principally because after 35+ years and 15k miles, there wasn't a lot of tread left, although no checking (Bedford 4-ply nylon tires). Was fortunate enough to acquire 3+ pickup loads of Model A parts a year or so ago for $150.00, among which were 10 19" wheels, 8 of which were true and 5 of which are now sporting blackwalls. Will try and get updated avatar photo this July 4th when we're again in the parade in Calistoga.

Wandering further off topic (sorry) I actually wish we had taken our Model A to Africa when we spent a month visiting our daughter in the village of Ha Salemone, Senqunyane, Lesotho, where she was in the middle of a 2-year Peace Corps tour as a teacher. The "A" probably would have fared better than the Toyota we rented in Johanasburg, but that's another story and definitely off topic...
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Model A owners belong in their Model A’s; Model A’s belong on the road.

Last edited by Napa Skip; 06-13-2014 at 10:54 AM. Reason: typo
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