The Ford Barn

Gold Digger · 05-16-2018, 07:39 PM

I know some will say not to use waterglass but I have before with good results. This is not for a model A but for a B John Deere. I know I'm on the wrong website but I need some good information and I trust some of the old mechanics on here more than some other places. My question "Is". Can I use waterglass with out starting the engine? It leaks into the crankcase now and before I tore it down and had it cleaned and magnifluxed. The shop where I had it cleaned couldn't find a crack anywhere in the head or block. I thought it must have been the head gasket so I gave it a valve and ring job. Now it leaks into the crankcase still yet. If I disconnect the bottom radiator hose and bring it up over the level of the block, can I just fill it with mixed hot water and waterglass with the plug out of the crankcase and will it work? I hate to get it mixed in the bearings and other parts. Always before I used it on cracked dozer heads where it was blowing compression into the radiator and was a little different situation.

Keith True · 05-16-2018, 08:10 PM

I think I would pressurize it first to see where it is leaking.You know the leak is somewhere in the engine,so I would isolate the radiator first.Pressure testing those old two cylinders is much easier if you can keep the radiator out of the system while testing.Did you actually match the head gasket with both the jug and the head before bolting up?All B's are not created equal,I put a head on a BO that was from another serial number series tractor,we had to make a head gasket for that one.Does yours have the water pump in the radiator?

pooch · 05-17-2018, 02:46 AM

I undertstand where you are coming from.

I had a diesel compressor that leaked water into the sump.

I used to crack the sump plug before every start and drain the water off.

It ran for a few years before the inevitable happened.

You are prob at your end of tries, so I would run it nice and hot . then add the snake oil to radiator and run it another few minutes , then shut it down.

Then hope and pray when you check the drain plug the next day.

Gold Digger · 05-17-2018, 07:59 AM

I made sure the head gasket was the right match. I'm pretty sure it's the block that leaks because I used a different head when I put it back together. Pressurizing it maybe the answer. I want to try and keep the waterglass from going through the bearings if possible.

Keith True · 05-17-2018, 08:26 AM

The pushrod tubes are a very common place to leak in the B tractors.Also,not sure of the serial number break for them,but some used lead washers under the head bolts.Another very common place to leak water.To check the pushrod tubes you need to plug all the holes in the casting,except for a place to feed the pressure,and pressurize it.Only use 1-2 pounds,you can actually make the tubes leak if you use more air.If you use water you can just hook it up and crack the tap open.

BILL WILLIAMSON · 05-17-2018, 09:06 AM

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If Water Glass isn't used properly, you might plug up the radiator, like a SOLID ROCK!! There's a certain way to use it, but I don't remember the proper sequence!
To preserve EGGS, it makes a "ceramic" like coating on the shells.
Bill W.

Keith True · 05-17-2018, 11:45 AM

One thing I just remembered about leak testing those B tractors,you need to either jack up the rear,or remove the front wheels so the front of the engine faces downhill.If a pushrod tube is leaking and the engine is sitting in it's natural position the water will run back inside,and you won't see it until it runs out the bottom.If you used copper washers instead of lead under the headbolts you can pretty much count on a leak.Poor quality ideas and replacement parts are not just on Model A Fords.I was the two cylinder man at the JD dealer in the late 70's,and these problems are floating to the top in my head now.Hot tanking the head will make the copper tubes leak,but the new replacement brass ones are EXTREMELY prone to cracking on installation.

Gold Digger · 05-17-2018, 04:09 PM

I used lead washers on all the head bolts. The head that I used was off of a tractor that didn't have a leak problem. I checked the push rod tubes but didn't put pressure on them. I may remove the front tires and see if there is a leak that way. I don't have the tappet cover on yet thinking if the tubes were leaking it would run out in front but if I lower it like you said that would eliminate them. How much pressure and what's a good way to pressurize the head and block? Was thinking of using a model A tube. Still would like to know the best way to use the waterglass.

Keith True · 05-17-2018, 05:20 PM

Sitting in the tractor the tubes won't leak out the front.The water will run into the rear.Most of the time you can find the leak from just the weight of the water in the block.If you sit and watch you won't find it.Leave it overnight and you will see a seep at the leak spot.How did you check the tubes before you put the head on?You won't see those leaks by just looking,and if you had it magnafluxed they had to clean the casting enough for the process.A leak at a joint won't show up as a crack,just as the joint of two different metals.You really don't want to know what I would do with the waterglass,but it wouldn't be in a zero pressure cooling system in a horizontal two cylinder John Deere.

hardtimes · 05-17-2018, 06:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gold Digger

I used lead washers on all the head bolts. The head that I used was off of a tractor that didn't have a leak problem. I checked the push rod tubes but didn't put pressure on them. I may remove the front tires and see if there is a leak that way. I don't have the tappet cover on yet thinking if the tubes were leaking it would run out in front but if I lower it like you said that would eliminate them. How much pressure and what's a good way to pressurize the head and block? Was thinking of using a model A tube. Still would like to know the best way to use the waterglass.

If you are talking about Sodium Silicate, the directions for proper useage are on the container, at least these instructions have always been on the bottles I've used.

Essentially, the instructions will start off with ....empty all anti-freeze and rinse system clean water.
Then, start engine and let it get fully warmed up.
Then, pour in substance while engine still running.
Run engine for a short while to allow substance to blend throughout system.
Shut engine off and let substance do its job as engine cools down (hours).
Used properly, this is GOOD stuff , and will most likely take care of your problem.

Here is the idea on what it does its job , when used properly; when any liquid (water/substance) exits the wound(s), AND COMES IN CONTACT WITH AIR, it hardens and builds till sealed.

Note about radiator and substance use; in one case/instance when using Sodium Silicate , I used a very leaky '30 radiator. I knew it leaked pretty good and didn't give that a thought in my goal. Well, that radiator does NOT leak now and has a good flow rate of water thru it.
So, go back to HOW this works and you can deduce what I say and how substance works

Don/WI · 05-17-2018, 08:04 PM

"I know some will say not to use waterglass but I have before with good results." What the heck is "waterglass"? I know I use one when I want a drink of water, but I've never heard that term used and I've been around working on engines for many years. I'm 77 years old. Please enlighten me. Thanks. Don/WI

4port · 05-17-2018, 08:41 PM

"Waterglass" is another term for "liquid glass" or sodium silicate. Irontite Ceramic Motor Seal is the oldest and most known manufacturer. It works, creates a ceramic seal in the water jackets.

hardtimes · 05-18-2018, 01:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Don/WI

"I know some will say not to use waterglass but I have before with good results." What the heck is "waterglass"? I know I use one when I want a drink of water, but I've never heard that term used and I've been around working on engines for many years. I'm 77 years old. Please enlighten me. Thanks. Don/WI

Hey Don,
The 'name' pretty much says it all in two words, i.e.- water and a solid (compound of sodium oxide and silicon dioxide) that is put into and will MIX with the water.

Very useful and safe....unless is gets into 'things' where is shouldn't(bearings/moving parts).

captndan · 05-19-2018, 08:53 AM

First use of water glass was to seal leaks in a copper still.

Keith True · 05-19-2018, 01:32 PM

I used it in a few things with success,the best was in a Buda engine on a sawmill.The owner only wanted to get a couple of million board feet out of the mill before he had a new engine put on.The engine had external water leaks,from freeze cracks,and were somewhat rusted shut.His new engine sat on a pallet on the ground for another three years before he changed it.But,it was a pressurized system.When I worked at the JD dealer in the 70's waterglass was a big problem in the non-pressurized two cylinder tractors.For some reason it liked to clot in the radiators.I can remember warning signs at the parts store warning people to not use it in Subarus.I wasn't a car mechanic so I never really found out just why.I've used it in both Ford and Chevy V8's with some positive results,but those engines were all terminal to start with so anything we got out of them was just a bonus.It made quite a mess of a Rabbit diesel I had,it seemed to attack the aluminum head at the site of the crack.

Gold Digger · 05-19-2018, 09:27 PM

I think I've figured out how I'll use it in this B John Deere. I'll take the bottom radiator hose loose and put a elbow on there that stands straight up and at least as high as the top of the block. Then I'll drain the crankcase of oil and leave the plug out so any water leaking in there can drain out. What I don't know is how I will heat the block with the waterglass in it. And do I need to circulate what water I have in the block to make it work?

michael a · 05-19-2018, 10:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gold Digger

I think I've figured out how I'll use it in this B John Deere. I'll take the bottom radiator hose loose and put a elbow on there that stands straight up and at least as high as the top of the block. Then I'll drain the crankcase of oil and leave the plug out so any water leaking in there can drain out. What I don't know is how I will heat the block with the waterglass in it. And do I need to circulate what water I have in the block to make it work?

I have done this with a John Deere be before. Take the water plug out of the head install a hose barb in that hole I used a cheap pump that goes on electric drill and took the other end to the top of the radiator fired up the engine covered radiator and cover the front of the radiator so it would get good and warm when it got the temperature I added to water glass and I think you know what to do from there.

Sent from my SM-J700T using Tapatalk

fastroadster · 05-21-2018, 09:27 PM

I suggest getting a small coffee cup.... fill it half with the sodium silicate. Warm up the engine, poor directly in the radiator put the cap on (doesn't matter if it is pressurized or not) and go ahead and drive it, the longer the better. As a retired radiator man I have done this for years. When the waterglass hits the air it gets hard. You won't have to worry about clogging radiator if you put the amount I said. Good luck. If you have any questions PM me.

05-16-2018, 07:39 PM	#1
Gold Digger Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: Arkansas & Alaska Posts: 643	The right way to use waterglass I know some will say not to use waterglass but I have before with good results. This is not for a model A but for a B John Deere. I know I'm on the wrong website but I need some good information and I trust some of the old mechanics on here more than some other places. My question "Is". Can I use waterglass with out starting the engine? It leaks into the crankcase now and before I tore it down and had it cleaned and magnifluxed. The shop where I had it cleaned couldn't find a crack anywhere in the head or block. I thought it must have been the head gasket so I gave it a valve and ring job. Now it leaks into the crankcase still yet. If I disconnect the bottom radiator hose and bring it up over the level of the block, can I just fill it with mixed hot water and waterglass with the plug out of the crankcase and will it work? I hate to get it mixed in the bearings and other parts. Always before I used it on cracked dozer heads where it was blowing compression into the radiator and was a little different situation.

05-16-2018, 08:10 PM	#2
Keith True Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Epping N.H. Posts: 2,983	Re: The right way to use waterglass I think I would pressurize it first to see where it is leaking.You know the leak is somewhere in the engine,so I would isolate the radiator first.Pressure testing those old two cylinders is much easier if you can keep the radiator out of the system while testing.Did you actually match the head gasket with both the jug and the head before bolting up?All B's are not created equal,I put a head on a BO that was from another serial number series tractor,we had to make a head gasket for that one.Does yours have the water pump in the radiator?

05-17-2018, 02:46 AM	#3
pooch Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: South Coast NSW Australia Posts: 2,596	Re: The right way to use waterglass I undertstand where you are coming from. I had a diesel compressor that leaked water into the sump. I used to crack the sump plug before every start and drain the water off. It ran for a few years before the inevitable happened. You are prob at your end of tries, so I would run it nice and hot . then add the snake oil to radiator and run it another few minutes , then shut it down. Then hope and pray when you check the drain plug the next day.

05-17-2018, 07:59 AM	#4
Gold Digger Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: Arkansas & Alaska Posts: 643	Re: The right way to use waterglass I made sure the head gasket was the right match. I'm pretty sure it's the block that leaks because I used a different head when I put it back together. Pressurizing it maybe the answer. I want to try and keep the waterglass from going through the bearings if possible.

05-17-2018, 08:26 AM	#5
Keith True Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Epping N.H. Posts: 2,983	Re: The right way to use waterglass The pushrod tubes are a very common place to leak in the B tractors.Also,not sure of the serial number break for them,but some used lead washers under the head bolts.Another very common place to leak water.To check the pushrod tubes you need to plug all the holes in the casting,except for a place to feed the pressure,and pressurize it.Only use 1-2 pounds,you can actually make the tubes leak if you use more air.If you use water you can just hook it up and crack the tap open.

05-17-2018, 09:06 AM	#6
BILL WILLIAMSON Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: FRESNO, CA Posts: 12,560	Re: The right way to use waterglass Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) If Water Glass isn't used properly, you might plug up the radiator, like a SOLID ROCK!! There's a certain way to use it, but I don't remember the proper sequence! To preserve EGGS, it makes a "ceramic" like coating on the shells. Bill W. __________________ "THE ASSISTANT GURU OF STUFF"

05-17-2018, 11:45 AM	#7
Keith True Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Epping N.H. Posts: 2,983	Re: The right way to use waterglass One thing I just remembered about leak testing those B tractors,you need to either jack up the rear,or remove the front wheels so the front of the engine faces downhill.If a pushrod tube is leaking and the engine is sitting in it's natural position the water will run back inside,and you won't see it until it runs out the bottom.If you used copper washers instead of lead under the headbolts you can pretty much count on a leak.Poor quality ideas and replacement parts are not just on Model A Fords.I was the two cylinder man at the JD dealer in the late 70's,and these problems are floating to the top in my head now.Hot tanking the head will make the copper tubes leak,but the new replacement brass ones are EXTREMELY prone to cracking on installation.

05-17-2018, 04:09 PM	#8
Gold Digger Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: Arkansas & Alaska Posts: 643	Re: The right way to use waterglass I used lead washers on all the head bolts. The head that I used was off of a tractor that didn't have a leak problem. I checked the push rod tubes but didn't put pressure on them. I may remove the front tires and see if there is a leak that way. I don't have the tappet cover on yet thinking if the tubes were leaking it would run out in front but if I lower it like you said that would eliminate them. How much pressure and what's a good way to pressurize the head and block? Was thinking of using a model A tube. Still would like to know the best way to use the waterglass.

05-17-2018, 05:20 PM	#9
Keith True Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Epping N.H. Posts: 2,983	Re: The right way to use waterglass Sitting in the tractor the tubes won't leak out the front.The water will run into the rear.Most of the time you can find the leak from just the weight of the water in the block.If you sit and watch you won't find it.Leave it overnight and you will see a seep at the leak spot.How did you check the tubes before you put the head on?You won't see those leaks by just looking,and if you had it magnafluxed they had to clean the casting enough for the process.A leak at a joint won't show up as a crack,just as the joint of two different metals.You really don't want to know what I would do with the waterglass,but it wouldn't be in a zero pressure cooling system in a horizontal two cylinder John Deere.

05-17-2018, 08:04 PM	#11
Don/WI Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Kaukauna, Wisconsin Posts: 394	Re: The right way to use waterglass "I know some will say not to use waterglass but I have before with good results." What the heck is "waterglass"? I know I use one when I want a drink of water, but I've never heard that term used and I've been around working on engines for many years. I'm 77 years old. Please enlighten me. Thanks. Don/WI

05-17-2018, 08:41 PM	#12
4port Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Dallas TX Posts: 112	Re: The right way to use waterglass "Waterglass" is another term for "liquid glass" or sodium silicate. Irontite Ceramic Motor Seal is the oldest and most known manufacturer. It works, creates a ceramic seal in the water jackets.

05-19-2018, 08:53 AM	#14
captndan Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2015 Location: Tennessee Posts: 714	Re: The right way to use waterglass First use of water glass was to seal leaks in a copper still.

05-19-2018, 01:32 PM	#15
Keith True Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Epping N.H. Posts: 2,983	Re: The right way to use waterglass I used it in a few things with success,the best was in a Buda engine on a sawmill.The owner only wanted to get a couple of million board feet out of the mill before he had a new engine put on.The engine had external water leaks,from freeze cracks,and were somewhat rusted shut.His new engine sat on a pallet on the ground for another three years before he changed it.But,it was a pressurized system.When I worked at the JD dealer in the 70's waterglass was a big problem in the non-pressurized two cylinder tractors.For some reason it liked to clot in the radiators.I can remember warning signs at the parts store warning people to not use it in Subarus.I wasn't a car mechanic so I never really found out just why.I've used it in both Ford and Chevy V8's with some positive results,but those engines were all terminal to start with so anything we got out of them was just a bonus.It made quite a mess of a Rabbit diesel I had,it seemed to attack the aluminum head at the site of the crack.

05-19-2018, 09:27 PM	#16
Gold Digger Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: Arkansas & Alaska Posts: 643	Re: The right way to use waterglass I think I've figured out how I'll use it in this B John Deere. I'll take the bottom radiator hose loose and put a elbow on there that stands straight up and at least as high as the top of the block. Then I'll drain the crankcase of oil and leave the plug out so any water leaking in there can drain out. What I don't know is how I will heat the block with the waterglass in it. And do I need to circulate what water I have in the block to make it work?

05-21-2018, 09:27 PM	#18
fastroadster Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2014 Location: Santa Cruz Ca. Posts: 175	Re: The right way to use waterglass I suggest getting a small coffee cup.... fill it half with the sodium silicate. Warm up the engine, poor directly in the radiator put the cap on (doesn't matter if it is pressurized or not) and go ahead and drive it, the longer the better. As a retired radiator man I have done this for years. When the waterglass hits the air it gets hard. You won't have to worry about clogging radiator if you put the amount I said. Good luck. If you have any questions PM me.