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Old 10-30-2020, 03:41 PM   #1
Chris Haynes
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Default Coil mounting position.

Several guys i know have made a bracket to turn the coil upside down and shorten the coil to distributor wire. Is there any science that shows that this is beneficial?
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Old 10-30-2020, 04:00 PM   #2
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Default Re: Coil mounting position.

I don't understand the question. Henry placed the coil with terminals facing down. To turn it up he other way, the coil to distributor wire has to be lengthened, not shortened and yes, I turn the coil terminals up. I was having too many coil failures till someone told me to turn the coil over. I have done that on all 4 of my Model As and haven't had a failure since. I don't care why that is, just that it is.
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Old 10-30-2020, 04:16 PM   #3
Chris Haynes
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Default Re: Coil mounting position.

Syncro. Their mounting bracket lowers the coil.
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Old 10-31-2020, 07:42 AM   #4
Patrick L.
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Default Re: Coil mounting position.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Haynes View Post
Several guys i know have made a bracket to turn the coil upside down and shorten the coil to distributor wire. Is there any science that shows that this is beneficial?



Depends on the coil. Tar or epoxy filled coils don't care how they are mounted. Oil filled coils do, they don't like to be tipped upside down.
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Old 10-31-2020, 07:57 AM   #5
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Default Re: Coil mounting position.

Sounds like it was mounted wrong in the first place.
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Old 10-31-2020, 08:37 AM   #6
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Default Re: Coil mounting position.

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Ford and it’s engineers over 90 years ago designed it facing down,and it has worked well, my opinion if it ain’t broke don’t fix it ,
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Old 10-31-2020, 08:49 AM   #7
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Default Re: Coil mounting position.

I think ford mounted the coil terminal down to keep water out of the high tension terminal, he didn't use the rubber nipple on the coil wire, probably saved a penny or two!
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Old 10-31-2020, 09:25 AM   #8
frank55a
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Default Re: Coil mounting position.

This is an original Ford photo showing how the original coil was mounted.
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Old 10-31-2020, 01:34 PM   #9
1931 flamingo
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Default Re: Coil mounting position.

I don't think it makes any difference in how long the coil to dist wire is, think about a 6' extension cord vs a 50' extension cord, both have 110 at the ends................
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Old 10-31-2020, 02:39 PM   #10
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Default Re: Coil mounting position.

Yep, the length of the wire doesn't make much difference with the coil wire or condenser mounted at the coil. Electrons are pretty quick little buggers.
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Old 10-31-2020, 03:34 PM   #11
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Default Re: Coil mounting position.

The new oil coils aren't filled full so the internal windings don't appear to get get coverage. Terminals up as suggested for those. Am also interested in the engineering explaining why some suggest the condensers can't be located up by the coil for less engine heat exposure.
Read somewhere that there is a relationship between point pitting, capacitance and wire lengths.

Last edited by duke36; 10-31-2020 at 03:46 PM.
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Old 10-31-2020, 04:10 PM   #12
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Default Re: Coil mounting position.

The condenser can be mounted next to the coil and work for years if the condenser is a good one . I have used a modern condenser connected to the switch side of the coil for fourteen years on one of my model A's . If a person says that it won't work they simply don't know what they are talking about . I had one guy tell me on this forum a few years ago that it wouldn't work and he knew because he was an engineer . The guy said that the condenser must be close to the distributor , My reply was if the coil is mounted on the firewall in the usual location it will be plenty close enough to the distributor . Some of the older model A guys that I have known have knew this for over 60 years . The condenser must connect to the switch side of the coil . The condenser needs a good ground where it mounts or it probably won't work .
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Old 10-31-2020, 04:29 PM   #13
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Default Re: Coil mounting position.

Quote:
Originally Posted by duke36 View Post
The new oil coils aren't filled full so the internal windings don't appear to get get coverage. Terminals up as suggested for those. Am also interested in the engineering explaining why some suggest the condensers can't be located up by the coil for less engine heat exposure.
Read somewhere that there is a relationship between point pitting, capacitance and wire lengths.



There is a relation between capacitance and pitting. I forget which is which though, I knew at one time.

I don't believe wire length has much to do with it though, within reason.
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Old 10-31-2020, 04:41 PM   #14
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Default Re: Coil mounting position.

he knew because he was an engineer . Well I am an engineer too. I run my trains around the Christmas tree every year. So there. I have several people tell me that they are an engineer or were related to one or knew one, bla bla bla. You would need to be an electrical engineer for this topic as even a structural engineer would not be qualified to intelligently argue this one. A structural engineer will not put his legal stamp on that kind of statement for which he could be held legally responsible.
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Old 10-31-2020, 05:03 PM   #15
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Default Re: Coil mounting position.

My answer was from experience .
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Old 11-01-2020, 06:50 AM   #16
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Default Re: Coil mounting position.

I used Google.

"If the tungsten transfers from the negative to the positive point one or two corrections may be made. Increase the capacity of the condenser, shorten the condenser lead, separate high and low tension leads between the coil and distributor, move these leads closer to the engine block. If the transfer is from the positive to negative point, reduce condenser capacity, move low and high leads closer together and/or away from the engine block, or lengthen condenser lead."
http://www.austin7club.org/Ignition%20Condensors.htm
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Old 11-01-2020, 10:21 AM   #17
Kurt in NJ
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Default Re: Coil mounting position.

Quote:
Originally Posted by warhorseracing View Post
he knew because he was an engineer . Well I am an engineer too. I run my trains around the Christmas tree every year. So there. I have several people tell me that they are an engineer or were related to one or knew one, bla bla bla. You would need to be an electrical engineer for this topic as even a structural engineer would not be qualified to intelligently argue this one. A structural engineer will not put his legal stamp on that kind of statement for which he could be held legally responsible.
The structural engineer needs to be consulted because of modifications to the mounting location, vibration and strength issues
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Old 11-01-2020, 12:25 PM   #18
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Default Re: Coil mounting position.

Quote:
Originally Posted by updraught View Post
I used Google.

"If the tungsten transfers from the negative to the positive point one or two corrections may be made. Increase the capacity of the condenser, shorten the condenser lead, separate high and low tension leads between the coil and distributor, move these leads closer to the engine block. If the transfer is from the positive to negative point, reduce condenser capacity, move low and high leads closer together and/or away from the engine block, or lengthen condenser lead."
http://www.austin7club.org/Ignition%20Condensors.htm
Ok; so does any one have a condenser part no. and wire size for 12 volt neg. grnd?
The attached diagram is from the net also, and suggests a short piece of wire is needed with the condenser grounded to the firewall, etc. or attached to the coil bracket. Is that correct ?
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File Type: pdf condensor at coil and wiring.pdf (49.1 KB, 33 views)
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Old 11-01-2020, 02:02 PM   #19
Patrick L.
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Default Re: Coil mounting position.

Quote:
Originally Posted by duke36 View Post
Ok; so does any one have a condenser part no. and wire size for 12 volt neg. grnd?
The attached diagram is from the net also, and suggests a short piece of wire is needed with the condenser grounded to the firewall, etc. or attached to the coil bracket. Is that correct ?




Actually most condensers have the mounting bracket connected to its body, no extra wire usually needed. So about any quality condenser with the mounting tab and point attachment wire/pigtail can be mounted to the coil.

With the poor quality of points and condensers today I think its a good to pay and hope you get one ones. I keep a known good one attached to the coil bracket but left disconnected until needed.

Auto condensers/capacitors have a microfarad range from .2-.3 with most being in the .25-.28 range. So excessive pitting doesn't happen very often

I recently went thru a bad condenser situation. 5 new 'burn-proof' condensers were junk. So the car now has 2 old known good ones in it.
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Old 11-01-2020, 02:56 PM   #20
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Default Re: Coil mounting position.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick L. View Post
I keep a known good one attached to the coil bracket but left disconnected until needed.
Iíve seen similar recommendations for this type of configuration in the past, and Iím still trying to understand how this would work. Can you post a picture? What do you ďplug intoĒ the condenser to complete the configuration when it is needed?


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