Scupper troughs

[pooch]

Not sure if scupper is the right model A term for the oil scoops on the rods.

If, say, an engine is clean as in fully overhauled and the oil changed regularly for a long time , and the pan is dropped, is there any metal or other residue in the oil troughs ?

Or does the action of the engine turning scoop the oil , in such a way that if any junk gets in there, it is tossed out ?

[1930artdeco]

The small pieces might remain, remember that they only piece that goes into the oil is the scoop of the rod I think. So not much turbulence action there.

Mike

[tbirdtbird]

without an oil filter, metal particles, which are heavier than oil, will settle out in the dipper trays, bottom of the pan, and the valve chamber.

Once you see how much crap settles in those 3 places you'll wish you had run an oil filter.

[hardtimes]

Originally Posted by pooch

Not sure if scupper is the right model A term for the oil scoops on the rods.

If, say, an engine is clean as in fully overhauled and the oil changed regularly for a long time , and the pan is dropped, is there any metal or other residue in the oil troughs ?

Or does the action of the engine turning scoop the oil , in such a way that if any junk gets in there, it is tossed out ?

Hey pooch,
The scupper/rod dippers move thru that area very fast, even at an idle. If as you say an engine is 'clean' as in like new, there shouldn't be much metal residue. Being heavier than oil, IMO, such particles will be thrown and end up in bottom of pan. Now what type oil are you using. Always ...use multi grade oil, which will help keep any 'stuff' from setteling in dipper tray areas and will keep such clean as new.
As said, best to have filtration system, then any small bits will be carried by multi grade oil to filter where they will be trapped.

[beechboy]

I found lots of babbit in my oil pockets in the tray when I took my engine down. the engine was in such bad shape, that when you parked on a small incline, it would leak oil out the main. The guy that sold me the car said the engine was in GREAT shape and should be trouble free for many miles. LOL i liked the car, so before I bought it, I had a rough idea of what it would cost to rebuild it. Just wasn't wanting to do it this soon, i wanted to drive it till the snow hit!!!!!!!!!!!!! I thought that the salesman was my friend!!!!!!LOL and I could trust himLOL

[Tom Wesenberg]

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Originally Posted by beechboy

I found lots of babbit in my oil pockets in the tray when I took my engine down. the engine was in such bad shape, that when you parked on a small incline, it would leak oil out the main. The guy that sold me the car said the engine was in GREAT shape and should be trouble free for many miles. LOL i liked the car, so before I bought it, I had a rough idea of what it would cost to rebuild it. Just wasn't wanting to do it this soon, i wanted to drive it till the snow hit!!!!!!!!!!!!! I thought that the salesman was my friend!!!!!!LOL and I could trust himLOL

ALL salesmen are your friend!

[pooch]

Originally Posted by hardtimes

Hey pooch,
The scupper/rod dippers move thru that area very fast, even at an idle. If as you say an engine is 'clean' as in like new, there shouldn't be much metal residue. Being heavier than oil, IMO, such particles will be thrown and end up in bottom of pan. Now what type oil are you using. Always ...use multi grade oil, which will help keep any 'stuff' from setteling in dipper tray areas and will keep such clean as new.
As said, best to have filtration system, then any small bits will be carried by multi grade oil to filter where they will be trapped.

gday hardtimes, this was just a general question, as I have not had a pan off before .

Seeing the gunge in the pan of a thread of a while back makes one shudder .

I suppose there is no way to tell what crap is in the troughs even though the oil looks clean on the dipstick.

[hardtimes]

Hey pooch,
Well, I'd say that ...if there is 'crap' in the engine , in general, i.e.- dipper tray, pan, valve chamber, etc., there will most likely be filthy oil showing on the dipstick. This being said, I suppose that if a guy put NEW oil into a dirty engine...and didn't run it, that that oil should show clean. But, if clean oil run for any length of time in a dirty engine will reveal a dirty engine. If you are tearing down to clean, do not forget to look into and clean valve chamber. Also, another good indicator of what you may/will find in an old engine, is the lack of a filtering system. Yeah, I've found broken piston parts, broken Babbitt parts and in worst case, about QUART of tar like residue from much past abuse.

[oldforder]

Just FYI, when I took the pan off my newly acquired 29 to clean it, the dipper tray was clean as could be, but there was a quarter to a half inch of sludge in the bottom of the pan. I would think that the speed of the dippers in the trays would keep anything in the oil in suspension till it ran down into the pan. And the oil was quite clean appearing on the dipstick.

[Bob Bidonde]

The action of the connecting rod scoops splashing through the oil troughs keeps them clean. Sludge and particles are typically found at the bottom of the oil pan. The oil pan plug is usually loaded with particulate matter.

[Synchro909]

Hey, Pooch you can reduce the amount of nasties circulating in the engine by putting a small magnet in the plug. The magnet will catch any cast iron swarf form wear in the bores etc and keep it out of bearings. That means that any metallic particles in there do not contain iron and so are limited to such things as tiny particles from worn bearings, piston etc which are not as destructive as the harder iron particles.
Same thing goes for a magnet in the gearbox and diff. I have one in each on all of my cars.

[Big hammer]

Another thread brought back from the past, a word of caution some posters may not be here for one reason or another. For me starting a new thread and referring to an old thread would be better. Not complaining, just saying.

[pooch]

Yup, an old thread, but I am still above ground.....

[oldforder]

Being new to this forum, and wanting to learn all I can, I am going through all the old threads, and if I find something that I find that I think maybe I can contribute to, or want more info. on I figured I would just post on it. Is that Ok? If it is frowned upon, I will just read and not comment. I have found that although I was a pro auto mechanic from 1964 till 1984, and OPE mechanic till now, I really don't know much about model A's. Now my 64Ranchero and 65 Mustang, those I understand....

[Synchro909]

Originally Posted by oldforder

Being new to this forum, and wanting to learn all I can, I am going through all the old threads, and if I find something that I find that I think maybe I can contribute to, or want more info. on I figured I would just post on it. Is that Ok? If it is frowned upon, I will just read and not comment. I have found that although I was a pro auto mechanic from 1964 till 1984, and OPE mechanic till now, I really don't know much about model A's. Now my 64Ranchero and 65 Mustang, those I understand....

I say "Feel free to comment". It's a public forum open to anybody with an interest. Better make a comment or ask another question to fill a gap in your knowledge than to stay ignorant.

[pooch]

Yep, I agree, old threads may contain posts from deceased members, or members who have left the forum ( or have been banned) for various reasons,, but this does not mean all old threads are taboo.

[oldforder]

Thanks guys, I am working my way from newest to oldest, and am up to 595 now. Still have a long way to go.

[TZBrown]

Originally Posted by oldforder

Thanks guys, I am working my way from newest to oldest, and am up to 595 now. Still have a long way to go.

That's exactly what I have done also. New member to the forum, but many years as a certified tech.

It's also why my post count is so low, most of the questions I have already have been answered, I just need to find it.