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Old 06-21-2018, 08:13 AM   #61
bettlesr
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Default Re: FSI distributor issue

As the detents are worn off on my spark lever, I am thinking of using it to work my wolf whistle!!
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Old 06-21-2018, 10:10 AM   #62
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Default Re: FSI distributor issue

Wolf whistle, , , dirty old man...
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Old 06-21-2018, 11:18 AM   #63
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Default Re: FSI distributor issue

Yupp!
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Old 06-22-2018, 08:49 AM   #64
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Default Re: FSI distributor issue

I was able to check the points this morning. Amazing what you can accomplish when you get back to basics... One of the screws holding the points in place was loose. Reset the point gap and tightened all down... purrs like a kitten. As soon as I get a little time, I'll take it out for a spin. This morning I'm taking my AA firetruck to the convention in Lake George for a little fun.

Frank
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Old 06-23-2018, 08:06 AM   #65
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I have been using Pertronix modules for many years with no issues. Have a couple in severe use on a twin engine boat. Running the 6th season no issues and these units are in a boat in the water year round.

Ok lots of pros and cons mostly just opinions. When properly installed they work. Have one been in service on an old vehicle for over 10000 miles over 18 years and no failures.

I have found I like an Original Model A distributor with the FSI module. Easy to setup...
Set timing with pin. (I added a timing mark and degree indicator so I can use a timing light to fine tune.

I set the timing at idle with full spark retard at about 3 degrees retard for that slow model A idle.

I get approx 26 degrees advance and my A's like the advance about 3/4 on a normal highway. We have another A with the Zipper and it works fine but not as fond of the internal advance I like having the spark control!

Ok what about coils?

I have two setups one on each A

#1 Running a 1.4 Ohm coil with an External Ballast Resistor. on a 12 Volt Neg Gnd No pop out switch on off switch which is fused and connected directly to the battery. (Provides very clean current flow no Alternator or Generator Spikes) Make sure you have a very clean ground for the distributor. I run an extra grnd. wire from Dist jut to be sure.

#2 You can also use a 3.0 Ohm coil which is internal resisted without an external Resistor. I have seen no difference in performance with either one.

Now you can do the same with a 6 volt module you then would use a 1.4 ohm coil without an external resistor.

TIP: the lower the ohms the higher the output voltage. a 1.4 ohm is standard for a 6 volt system but when connected to a 12 Volt it MUST be stepped down with the resistor or damage to the module will result. (I think many are bricked that way by mistake)

FSI does provide support and detailed instructions. The best news is they also supply the module already mounted to the plate. I keep one as a spare for tours and I can change it out in 5 min.!

No condenser, no contact plate spring etc. just... no moving parts to wear and unless you blow a timing gear or the dist. screw gets loose timing will not change as you run up the miles.

Which ever you decide to use both work... Fine point Stay with the OEM Touring something to consider. Do not listen to all the noise... do your own research and make your own decision which works best for you.

Note: Ron Cloat "Rainmaker Ron" installed my FS ignition in all our Model A's so I know it was done correctly. Sure miss that guy !

"A man is incapable of leaving a perfectly running machine alone without tinkering!"
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Old 06-23-2018, 09:51 AM   #66
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Default Re: FSI distributor issue

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Barkleydave,. One comment... The coil that was supplied with my old FSI setup has a 4.1 ohm primary. In addition, the FSI instructions mention that they supply a special resistive wire from switch to coil. That would indicate to me that FSI engineers are apparently concerned about the amount of current that the modual they use can handle.

Given that these provide a really hot spark, and don't have to support high RPMs, and are not on an 8 cylinder engine, (so have a low switch rate), I don't really see a downside to limiting the current to the module even more than you have done. But, that's just what I think, no scientific proofs on that.

If you are happy sliding the spark lever around, then the centrifugal and vacuum advances the Honda offers are obviously not for you. The whole point of this topic was to point out some issues with the FSI setup, (centrifugal advance but no vacuum advance), and offer a solution to those in the form of the modified Honda distributor, which gives you both advances. (And it's also a much cheaper option for the machinist capable guys.)

Everybody has their own favorite setup, they all obviously can work. Different strokes for different folks, and that is how it should be. Thanks for posting your Pretronics data, it all seems reasonable to me.
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Old 06-28-2018, 07:36 PM   #67
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I think I may have found out why my car is frying the modules. I put my ocilloscope across the plus side of the coil to ground. My rotary fuel pump is also across the hot side of the coil, all other accessories are fed from a relay. When I shut off the ignition, the only thing connected to the coil is the pump. I get a fairly good size ac wave on the hot side until the pump stops spinning. This could be higher or lower voltage then the "points" lead to the coil negative. I am going to try connecting the fuel pump to the relay as well. Then when the ignition is shut off only the coil and the relay coil are on the hot side of the coil and module. Running out of spare modules!
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Old 06-28-2018, 08:00 PM   #68
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Default Re: FSI distributor issue

Sure sounds like a good theory to me. Good deal scoping it, I hope before installing the new one. Some other ideas, an inductor in serries with the coil, a cap accross the coil feed, a relay feeding only the coil direct from the battery, a ballast resister to the coil only, with one of the previous noise filters, a diode to ground to short out the spike, bow to the east before shutting it down, more prayers, etc. Maybe a different brand module would be more counter emf proof. Of course, you will move everything else from that ckt.
Sounds like you are on the right track. Mine is still working a treat, so I'm sure you will conqure the issue.

To the best of my knowledge, no one else has reported any issues like yours. I admire your persistence!
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Old 06-28-2018, 10:46 PM   #69
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Default Re: FSI distributor issue

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Originally Posted by bettlesr View Post
Corley:
I have a 7:1 head on a .100 over engine. The car is 12v neg ground. I had modified my FSI zipper distributor to cut down the centrifugal advance and made the plate movable so I could retard it slightly when climbing hills. The timing seems to jump all over the place (which it didn't do with a B distributor)
I was looking at the Honda distributor. I have a rebuilt unit to play with. The problem is there is no cable to connect to the module. I would like to know which terminal on the module connects to which side of the coil. Also, any idea where I can get the cable that goes into the distributor?
Thanks
Dick
Hello Bettlesr,
I have a Setup similar to what you describe and have difficulty with the timing advancing so far I get pinging. I have resorted to setting the idle timing at up to 10 degrees btdc and this seems to work but I am very interested in how you limited the advance on your zipper. Could you please advise how you did this?
Cheers,
Gavin
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Old 06-28-2018, 10:49 PM   #70
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Default Re: FSI distributor issue

Reference my earlier post I should have said atdc not btdc. Cheers, Gavin
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Old 06-29-2018, 07:09 AM   #71
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Default Re: FSI distributor issue

Gavin:
I welded up the slot that limited the amount of advance and then milled the slot shorter to get the amount of advance I wanted. I removed the upper plate and slotted the hole for the mounting screw and put the screw in loose and held in place with Locktite. This allowed me to retard the advance for climbing hills, about 5°. I set the initial timing to 10° btdc with the lever all the way DOWN. This gave me good performance off the line and limited the total to about 25° for cruising and still drop back to around 20 for heavy loads.
Good luck
Dick
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Old 10-08-2018, 12:22 PM   #72
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Corley:
I finally found out why my '80 Honda distributor quit after shortening the wires. I eventually got a '79 honda distributor with points and modified that. It works great.
When I was cutting the tang on the bottom of the shaft I found the problem. When I first put in the '80 unit I had to turn the distributor around 180° to get it to work. When I replaced the wires after shortening them I put them in where it looked like they should go WRONG it was now 180° out again. As the '79 distributor is working fine I have not tried the '80 unit again yet. DUH???
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Old 07-27-2022, 06:31 AM   #73
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Corley


I signed up for the FORD barn so I could thank you!


The formula to make modern dizzy work in a FORD A is a gold mine! I do not have a A distributor to copy if any commented sketches are available for the end treatment please send them.


I may try this with old school points starting with a Datsun 210 form the mid 70's .



I am trying to confirm the body diameter before I buy one. It has Hitachi numbers and looks about right! Great deal today under $45!





What RPM were you speaking of for light cruise and heavy load cruise?


Regards


Matt









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I've had numerous requests for more info on using the Honda distributor, so here it is, once again. Credit for this does not go to me, but rather to some guys in the SF Bay area, who have been running these for about 20years.

1978-1981 Honda Civic, and other models used this dizzy, made by Hitachi. It's electronic, and turns CCW, like the model A. It has a centrifugal advance, just like the FSI. The thing it has which FSI does not have, but this Does have, is a vacuum advance. This corrects the overheating issue at idle due to retarded timing which some have when using the FSI diz. It also gives a nice cruise advance.

To make the conversion for use on a model A, some machining must be done to the Honda diz. First, the base diameter needs to be turned down about 0.060", to make it fit the 1" hole in the model head. Then you will want to shorten it to match the model A diz, and also shorten the shaft, and cut a Tang on it. Basically, you make the bottom half of the Honda unit look just like the bottom half of the model A unit.

Since this is electronic, it comes with the electronic unit inside the distributor, and this needs to closely match the coil. I use a 12volt coil with internal resistor. If you meter the primary, you will get something greater than 3 ohms, and less than 5 ohms. Wire it as described in the previous posts. That's it. (This electronic unit is also used by several other cars, including some Nissons, and the 1.9L Chevy S-10. It is Rock solid, and your FLAPs has them in stock.)

I suggest using a NuRex timing tab, which is marked in degrees to set it up. Find and Mark your crank pulley at zero degrees, being as accurate as possible. With the vacuum line not connected, I set mine at about 5 degrees BTDC, because I don't intend to crank it by hand. If you think you might hand crank it, I'd recommend you stick with zero to avoid an arm owee. Run the engine and speed it to around 2k rpm, and with a timing light, you should see about 21 degrees of centrifugal advance. If it's not all in by 2k rpm, you should adjust the springs in the diz. (Lighter springs give sooner advance.). When you connect the vacuum line to manifold vacuum, you will see about 10 degrees of advance. On mine as it is set, this yields 15 degrees at idle, no load, 36 degrees at light cruise, and 26 degrees at cruise under heavier load.

Model A vacuum runs around 20 inches, but drops off pretty quickly after 45 mph, due to the power required to push a flat box through the wind. By 50, you won't have much manifold vacuum left, as your number 12 foot gets near the floor. This is a good thing, as at about 6 inches the vacuum advance drops out, preventing pre ignition. Your engine might be more powerful, and your vacuum results may vary.

You can find these dizzies on fleabay, rebuilt, for $24.99, or at the men's mall, for a similar price. Be sure to look inside, and get the electronic version, as there is also an earlier point version that looks the same from the outside. Grab the wiring connector as well, because we have found no other source for that. I just used some small plug on terminals, but those are fiddly.

It's a bit of work, but very CAMO. (Cheap Ass Model A Owner). (Stolen from the CASO Studebaker guys, and modified to fit.). You won't be disappointed with the results.

Just for fun, I also tried doing the same on an late '70s Olds HEI diz. (Chevy turns the wrong direction.) It's big and ugly, but works a treat, is totally self contained, including coil so is a one wire hookup. On it, the centrifugal advance it way up top, and vacuum cans are available in about any curve you can imagine. Super neat for adjusting, but like I said, big and ugly. (You need to grind off every other pickup point on this, since it was for a v-8. Then, use every other plug wire outlet.)

Note: Pay close attention when machining the Tang, it is not in the center of the shaft!
Note2: The lower bushing can be pushed up when shortening the housing, so don't cut it off.
Note3: Use full manifold vacuum, not ported vacuum, (not that emmisions "ported" one).
Note4: If you think it is wrong to install a non-stock part on your model A, ignore all this and don't do it.
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Old 07-27-2022, 07:31 AM   #74
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Josh I do not have a A distributor to copy did you make dimension-ed sketches of the end objective? Thanks for the picture!



Matt
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Old 07-27-2022, 08:46 AM   #75
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Default Re: FSI distributor issue

My ad/marketing agency was handling the Per-Lux account when they acquired Ignitor ignition systems. These modules were designed for stationary engines running 24/7. The line was expanded to include material handling equipment. First time use of the Ignitor in cars were the VW classes of the Baja 1000 & 500 where they were class winners. Mickey Remund, Mickey Thompson's engine builder, secured the rights from Per-Lux to design and sell the Ignitor for Model A's and early Ford V-8's. Mickey sold the business to FSI a number of years ago. To the best of my knowledge, there never was a Chinese version of the Ignitor. However, I was party to a lot of testing with the Big 3 Japanese motorcycle factories using an Ignitor prior to OE electronic ignition being standard. I've been using them in Model A's, classic cars and boats for over fifty years with a single failure that was self inflicted. One of my A's has one of the first Remund distributors and the other one has an FSI system. Replaced the Prince of Darkness distributor in my Jag with a Petronix!
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Old 07-27-2022, 10:17 AM   #76
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While on the topic of converting old hitachi dizzy distributors I found a new clone of the old points style fitted with an igniter. One could revert to points or use the cross reference numbers to locate a "Datsun B210" distributor REF https://www.hot-spark.com/1-HS-HIT4-Distributor.htm
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Old 07-27-2022, 10:56 AM   #77
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Default Re: FSI distributor issue

While on this topic, I would like to mention that the 1970's to early 1980's Honda Civic distributors Corley used are getting hard to find and the prices have gone up on them since his conversion. Datsun B210 Hitachi distributors described by MattN may make a good option.


Photo below of my 1979 Honda Civic Distributor conversion. Went with the points version. Easy to troubleshoot.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg IMG_4064 (1).jpg (72.9 KB, 41 views)
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Old 07-27-2022, 12:19 PM   #78
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MattN, Hope this helps.
distributorH2.jpg
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Old 07-27-2022, 12:47 PM   #79
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MattN, Hope this helps.
Attachment 495370
Perfect then cross pin it with a sleeve and go!
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Old 07-27-2022, 12:50 PM   #80
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MattN, Hope this helps.
Attachment 495370
What is the ID of the 0.25 groove?
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