Cost of rebuild a flathead

[FHFD]

Benefits of balancing an engine:

Longevity
Smooth operation
Reduced vibration/stress
Improves performance/efficiency (higher maximum operating speeds made possible by reduced stress, spreading loads equally over all components).
Save on fuel
Reduces friction (heat)
Lessens component failure

It is a common practice, and is done throughout the country, by reputable machine shops. The engine on my above post (which cost $3,000.00 for the parts and machining), the balance portion of the bill was $175.00. Why would anyone not have it done?

[Krylon32]

I guess things must be a little higher in the midwest. By the time I find a really good block and take it apart have it cleaned properly, machined with all new internals, rebalance the SCAT assemble and the other parts, new flywheel/pressure plate, disc,
assemble it with a new 3/97 carb setup from Baxter, new Offy heads, pumps etc and get it ready for the customer to run I have a hell of a lot more than 5 grand in it. I guess there's overhauling and there's rebuilding.

[OLD...BILL]

Balance it by all means BALANCE, for smooth running stock or other, it will last longer too.... OLD...BILL

[Kahuna]

The real bottom line in all of this is how much you can, or are willing to do youself. If you can find a good local machine shop, you'll be ahead of the game. If you can do the disassembly, some cleaning, etc., all the better. I think that most anyone on this forum that fools around with old cars has the mechanical ability to put an engine together. Further, I think he/they should. You learn something worthwhile and end up with something to be proud of. You also know what every part of that engine does, and you'll save yourself a big pile of money. Just sayin. JMO
Jim

[Ol' Ron]

Back to balancing. I never said that an engine doesn't have to be balanced. I said if you're rebuilding a stock engine it doesn't have to be re-balanced IF abif IF all the rotating parts except pistons are original. The stock Flathead is balanced very well from the factory and the weight of the pistons is not a critical part of engine balancing. There are several formulas used in balancing and the percentages of reciprocating and rotating weight s are different.. And you can't balance out some of the harmonics.
Now IF some one uses a crank from one engine and a rod from another you should street balance the engine. Take one rod assy to the balance for him to make up a bob weight and then spin the crank. Here in the northeast balancing a complete engine runs between 3-400 dollars and some do-not know how to balance a
Flathead Rod

[Mike in AZ]

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i figure he meant his part of the country....not the whole country....or maybe he meant county.....just my guess....Mike

[ole_Bill]

NOTE TO OL' RON - Just wanted to add a note of thanks for your posts. I'm doing my first flathead and Ive learned a lot. I appreciate the time and effort you take to keep us "newbies" straight. Thanks again.

[V12Bill]

I rebuilt a V 12 about 6 or 7 years ago and it cost about $3900. The block was boiled clean and magnafluxed, crank was turned, cam rebuilt, valves, guides and springs replaced, hydraulic lifters rebuilt ,new bearings rod and mains and cam, bored and new pistons and rings and small end of rods had bushings replaced, flywheel resurfaced and the whole mess was balanced. I did all of the assembly work.

[Ol' Ron]

The V12 is the only cylinder configuration that can be balanced in all harmonics.

[Teich]

The cost of an engine rebuild- three engines to find a really good one to start with $475.00 machine shop bore and fit pistons,degrease,valve job,grind crank,plane heads alot $835.00 pistons,rings bearings crank and cam,gaskets $630.00 put it together my shelf this is a 1BA that went into my 48 car, has full flow oil but didn't cost just drilled a hole cheapest part of the whole exercise. Total cost doesn't really matter as the car sure is alot of fun!

[Straightpipes]

I think you can do it for that much. Rings, bearings, gaskets, maybe a few valves....... Some of these guys read too many magazines. Now-a-days guys tend to go way overboard with rebuilds. It's really not necessary for a stock engine.

If you are going to do any major machine work that is where it starts costing. Also, if you look too close at the block it may scare you..... Most of them have problems.

Years ago we would pull the engine, re-ring it with cast iron rings, grind the valves and be back on the road in no-time. That is, if you are not making a hotrod.

Stock flatheads don't need to be balanced as they are already balanced from the factory. It's lucky if it will ever see 3,000 rpm.

[Dee Jay]

If you are going to build a race engine and run it on fuel it is going to get expensive. For a driver it doesn't have to be. I agree with the fellows that said there is a lot of overkill. Start with a decent core,replace what needs to be replaced and leave the rest alone. Last fall I bought a 59A I cleaned it up,sharpened the valves,put in rings and bearings and surfaced the heads. Total investment was around $500.00. Shop around for parts and don't pay retail for anything. I plan on putting this engine in a vintage stock car and running the snot out of it just like we did in the 60s. Back then a friend had a 53 that cracked three pistons. He went to a junkyard and drove three pistons out of a block,put them in coffee cans with diesel fuel until most of the rings were loose and put them in. He drove the car for a year and sold it to another guy that drove it until he wrecked the car and another fellow put the engine in a stock car.

[FHFD]

No one will ever convince me that $175.00 to balance the engine, or the extra-maybe $200.00 for all new valves is an overkill. Consider at todays prices what the vehicle itself cost (the engine will be intalled in). Say it is to be put into a '30's coupe, sedan, roadster, p/u, or say a '40 Ford. What are you paying for the vehicle?, the chassis components?, the body prep/paint?, upholstery?, glass?, rubber?, etc., even if you are doing all, or part of the work. Does it somehow make since to penny pinch on its power plant? What about re-sale value, is that not a consideration? A prospective buyer of your classic Rod will be much more impressed with receipts, showing all components being replaced..I guarantee it. More importantly, what about your own piece of mind, knowing you did it right? Of course you can probably find and install used valves, pistons, hoses, gas, oil, filters, air for the tires, etc., but really, is it worth the savings? Too many magazines?..Is there a monthy publicaton now, that instructs you to replace every component in your Flathead?..I think not. Common sense prevails here. I will always balance, and replace components in any, and every engine I have apart. Nobody tells me to do this, it quite simply is the right thing to do. I am ready to read the arguments against, but I will never change what I know is right.

[Kahuna]

X2 What FHFD said
Jim

[Ol' Ron]

FHED, what you suggest has merit. Piece of mind and resale value will be in hanced buy spending the extra cash to do all this work. Unfortunately, There are many people that may just dump in a SBC when they see the costs of going the "right" way. I'd like to see these engines running and giving the owners the prid in using a Flathead, so I only did what I thought was necessary. Most (but not all) of the engines I have rebuilt are still running.

[FHFD]

Ol'Ron, I appreciate what you are saying about the ever popular SBC swap into early Ford's..personally not my thing either. I am all for seeing and hearing Flathead Fords, on the road (they will always be the cars/pickups that get my attention, at the shows). I do not question your ability, merely expressing my anal approach to a topic I am passionate about.

[Ol' Ron]

I have a few friends that think the same way, but they can afford it.

[Tim Ayers]

Originally Posted by 36tbird

I think that $15 to $17 is low, sorry to say. I's say that you take what it costs to rebuild a Chevy Small Block and go at least 2 1/2 times as much, maybe 3. That is, if you want build in reliability and dependability. If you are going for any speed or dress up, all bets are off. Nostalgia is expensive.

I agree. The machine work on my block alone will be in the ball park of $1,200.

This included:

Dipped, shot & baking the block
removing old and reinstalling new cam bearings
boring to .125 over finish honing with a torque plate
valve job & new seats installed (some of the old ones were too pitted to use)
Check NOS rods
Install pistons on rods
decked checked and lightly resurfaced
balance rotating assembly
painting the interior valve valley with sealing paint.

NOTE: I gave them the block bare. There was no tear down on there part.

[Tim Ayers]

Originally Posted by Kahuna

X2 What FHFD said
Jim

X3 what FHFD & Kahuna said.

Do what makes you feel comfortable. One big thing we all need to get straight: This isn't the '60's anymore. Hasn't been for 40+ years.

I hear these same old tale countless of times. "Back in the day we did this, back in the day we did that."

Well, guess what-good luck finding a flathead in any junk yard let alone one that will sell you just 2 pistons. Plus-40 years ago you had a good chance of finding a standard bore flathead that a swap like that would work.

Please don't misconstrue what I am saying. I'm not doubting anyone's story for back in the day or the way they use to do things. They use to cut cranks still when they were still in the engine, but they don't do that anymore.

I think we'd all agree disc brakes work a heck a lot better than drums, but I don't hear anyone saying well back in the day we didn't want to stop anyway and we loved it.

Some things just improved over time. Engine rebuilding is one of those things.

Plus, good flathead blocks are hard to come by and even a bigger pain in the ass to tear down.

I always have and will continue to put better stuff into an engine just for the piece of mind it gives me. For an extra $175 to balance everything looks small in cost when you puke the guts out of shotty rebuild.

Think of it this way: Someone was going to wire your home. They can use crappy, home owner grade outlets or step up and use Hubble or trade grade-US made Levitons. Sure, they will cost you about $5.00 more an outlet, but they will also last about 40X longer than the cheap one.

Plus, if installed correctly, you don't have to worry about them burning down your house. This same principal applies to flatheads or anything you should do right the first time.

Just my two cents.

[Ol' Ron]

You make a good point. 175 for balancing is a reasonable price. Unfortunately I don't know any shop that charges that. 350-400 is more like it. 200 for a street balance job.and they still don't know how to balance rods. We have a delima ere.