The Ford Barn

hardtimes · 06-22-2015, 03:36 PM

I am changing axles, or trying to

!
Ok, guys, what is the way to best remove spring perches ? Bigger hammer, what

deuce_roadster · 06-22-2015, 03:42 PM

A bigger hammer will make the job harder by mushrooming the end of the perch. I have a 25 ton press with a gauge and most of the perches I have removed let go at about 17 tons. Do not heat the axle with anything but a propane torch if you use heat at all. Put a hardened nut on the threads flush with the end to push on. It's kind of scary when it finally lets go with a big bang but it only moves about 32nd of an inch, but then you are able to push it out.

Chris · 06-22-2015, 04:56 PM

I use an acedeline torch and heat the boss around the pin. Not too hot, but to a slight dull red. I then use an air hammer with a bit I made and they usually drive right out without ruining anything. Let both the pin and axle naturally cool and you are good to go. I have taken apart A LOT of front end assemblies and with this method I have never had one I could not get out

KGS · 06-22-2015, 05:22 PM

Vern Tardel tips on how to remove spring perches.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=09cQqRlOUVc

hardtimes · 06-22-2015, 06:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KGS

Vern Tardel tips on how to remove spring perches.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=09cQqRlOUVc

Thanks much for all your input ! Will definitely help. This video is a great teaching visual ...for guys who like pictures, like me

!
Do not have a hydraulic press and no torch. Will have to put the BFH back in storage, as you warn against that, eh. Yup, I can see the damage accumulate from hammer strikes. Hm, will have to buy a 25 ton press and a torch set up or

?

37fordpickup · 06-22-2015, 08:32 PM

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

I had a tool made to pull them out. Also need heat and a hammer and fianlly drilled them out. Have pictures of the puller.

Bassman/NZ · 06-22-2015, 09:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hardtimes

Thanks much for all your input ! Will definitely help. This video is a great teaching visual ...for guys who like pictures, like me

!
Do not have a hydraulic press and no torch. Will have to put the BFH back in storage, as you warn against that, eh. Yup, I can see the damage accumulate from hammer strikes. Hm, will have to buy a 25 ton press and a torch set up or

?

Take it to your local engineering shop. They should have a big press.

skidmarks · 06-22-2015, 09:54 PM

I have a Snapon perch pin press that was made just for ford perch bolts Model A on up. Its in the original metal box with the instruction sheet. Pretty cool piece and ive never used it. I use a rosebud a punch with a pair of visegrips and a big hammer. Screw a nut on a few threads and take your time. Have had good luck and done a ton of them this way. Everyone has an oppinion on how not to do it

Takes heat to drop a axle, right? Common sense helps prevent further damage. Hands on experience goes a long ways too

deuce_roadster · 06-22-2015, 10:08 PM

The owner of a frame and axle shop in Seattle (40 years experience) spoke at our V8 club meeting a few years back. They are able to cold bend big truck axles for alignment purposes. They know how much pressure it takes to bend car and truck axles (have a chart), that is their business. He said he could tell when a Ford axle had been heated up red with acetylene torch/rosebud because it would yield at about half the pressure of an axle that had never had that done. That is why I suggested a propane heat source if heat was needed. I have never had to heat one with my press to get perches out.

Any decent machine shop would have the ability to push those out for you. However, it is your axle and you can use any method that makes sense to you.

hardtimes · 06-23-2015, 12:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by deuce_roadster

The owner of a frame and axle shop in Seattle (40 years experience) spoke at our V8 club meeting a few years back. They are able to cold bend big truck axles for alignment purposes. They know how much pressure it takes to bend car and truck axles (have a chart), that is their business. He said he could tell when a Ford axle had been heated up red with acetylene torch/rosebud because it would yield at about half the pressure of an axle that had never had that done. That is why I suggested a propane heat source if heat was needed. I have never had to heat one with my press to get perches out.

Any decent machine shop would have the ability to push those out for you. However, it is your axle and you can use any method that makes sense to you.

Some good/interesting information, for sure ! Think that I'll call a machine shop friend to see if he has a big press. He mainly does engine rebuilds, so never have noticed if he has a large press. I don't know enough of metallurgy to discuss whether heat and / or how much is too much regarding this task. Of all the millions of old time hot rod guys, I wonder if any ever concerned about heating an axle to knock out these perches ?

Fordors · 06-23-2015, 08:14 AM

I don't know how dropped axles are heated to drop them but I imagine they will "move" when heated to a dull red just like the steering arms I have heated to bend. In all my travels over the years around the mid-west, south to Tennessee, north to Minnesota, east to Ohio, west to Oklahoma and all points in between I have yet to see any movement or diminished quality in my very old Mor-Drop Model A dropped axle. I guess it must have been around 35-40 years ago (CRS) that cast malleable iron dropped axles hit the market but I stuck with my good old vanadium steel Ford dropped axle; yes, I know that auto makers produce lots of cast spindles and steering knuckles now but there is something about the piece of mind that comes with a forging, even one that has been heated and bent, albeit done properly. Bending axles cold for alignment is OK too but I wonder if that is done out of necessity? Might the heat be detrimental if it transferred to grease seals, shackle bushings and other components attached to an axle on a vehicle? A little heat, just a dull red, applied to the axle where the perch passes through will help break the bond of rust and the many years of being bolted together and I think might make removing that perch bolt just a bit easier. No heat and quench, just a slow cool. JMO.

hardtimes · 06-23-2015, 11:05 AM

Hey Fordors, Thanks for you input.
Yeah, I've been schooled about cast vs forged old Ford axles. That led to meet up with 'Okie Joe' near the Pomona father swap/car show. Me and Fordbarn bud got two of Joe's dropped 4" Ford forged axles. They look ...well bent...hm bending up a perfectly good axle, go figure

!
I gave Joe what looked to be a nos model a axle as core. He will contact model a 'restorer' with this piece...win-win-win, eh

Ergo, I need these perches out of the original that is under my project.

Mart · 06-23-2015, 11:14 AM

The truck guy may be right about being able to bend previously heated axles at lower loads than non heated ones, but the overwhelming evidence from years of hot rod modifications is that people can heat an early ford axle (in extreme cases for dropping) and the axle will be perfectly serviceable after. I haven't removed many perches, but did have success using some heat and driving the pin out with an air chisel (with a slightly modified punch). You don't need to worry about early ford stuff, it will take it.

When driving out the pins the axle needs to be removed so the driving force is downwards with the axle supported on a solid surface. You'd struggle doing it on a car on a ramp for example.

Mart.

06-22-2015, 03:36 PM	#1
hardtimes Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: South California Posts: 6,188	spring perch removal..Q I am changing axles, or trying to ! Ok, guys, what is the way to best remove spring perches ? Bigger hammer, what

06-22-2015, 03:42 PM	#2
deuce_roadster Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: Shelton, WA Posts: 3,800	Re: spring perch removal..Q A bigger hammer will make the job harder by mushrooming the end of the perch. I have a 25 ton press with a gauge and most of the perches I have removed let go at about 17 tons. Do not heat the axle with anything but a propane torch if you use heat at all. Put a hardened nut on the threads flush with the end to push on. It's kind of scary when it finally lets go with a big bang but it only moves about 32nd of an inch, but then you are able to push it out.

06-22-2015, 04:56 PM	#3
Chris Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Spokane, WA Posts: 2,976	Re: spring perch removal..Q I use an acedeline torch and heat the boss around the pin. Not too hot, but to a slight dull red. I then use an air hammer with a bit I made and they usually drive right out without ruining anything. Let both the pin and axle naturally cool and you are good to go. I have taken apart A LOT of front end assemblies and with this method I have never had one I could not get out __________________ Thee Inland Emperors

06-22-2015, 05:22 PM	#4
KGS Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Schooley's Mountain Posts: 530	Re: spring perch removal..Q Vern Tardel tips on how to remove spring perches. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=09cQqRlOUVc

06-22-2015, 08:32 PM	#6
37fordpickup Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: Greeneville, TN Posts: 127	Re: spring perch removal..Q Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) I had a tool made to pull them out. Also need heat and a hammer and fianlly drilled them out. Have pictures of the puller.

06-22-2015, 09:54 PM	#8
skidmarks Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: newark, delaware Posts: 3,735	Re: spring perch removal..Q I have a Snapon perch pin press that was made just for ford perch bolts Model A on up. Its in the original metal box with the instruction sheet. Pretty cool piece and ive never used it. I use a rosebud a punch with a pair of visegrips and a big hammer. Screw a nut on a few threads and take your time. Have had good luck and done a ton of them this way. Everyone has an oppinion on how not to do it Takes heat to drop a axle, right? Common sense helps prevent further damage. Hands on experience goes a long ways too

06-22-2015, 10:08 PM	#9
deuce_roadster Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: Shelton, WA Posts: 3,800	Re: spring perch removal..Q The owner of a frame and axle shop in Seattle (40 years experience) spoke at our V8 club meeting a few years back. They are able to cold bend big truck axles for alignment purposes. They know how much pressure it takes to bend car and truck axles (have a chart), that is their business. He said he could tell when a Ford axle had been heated up red with acetylene torch/rosebud because it would yield at about half the pressure of an axle that had never had that done. That is why I suggested a propane heat source if heat was needed. I have never had to heat one with my press to get perches out. Any decent machine shop would have the ability to push those out for you. However, it is your axle and you can use any method that makes sense to you.

06-23-2015, 08:14 AM	#11
Fordors Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Orland Park,IL Posts: 1,402	Re: spring perch removal..Q I don't know how dropped axles are heated to drop them but I imagine they will "move" when heated to a dull red just like the steering arms I have heated to bend. In all my travels over the years around the mid-west, south to Tennessee, north to Minnesota, east to Ohio, west to Oklahoma and all points in between I have yet to see any movement or diminished quality in my very old Mor-Drop Model A dropped axle. I guess it must have been around 35-40 years ago (CRS) that cast malleable iron dropped axles hit the market but I stuck with my good old vanadium steel Ford dropped axle; yes, I know that auto makers produce lots of cast spindles and steering knuckles now but there is something about the piece of mind that comes with a forging, even one that has been heated and bent, albeit done properly. Bending axles cold for alignment is OK too but I wonder if that is done out of necessity? Might the heat be detrimental if it transferred to grease seals, shackle bushings and other components attached to an axle on a vehicle? A little heat, just a dull red, applied to the axle where the perch passes through will help break the bond of rust and the many years of being bolted together and I think might make removing that perch bolt just a bit easier. No heat and quench, just a slow cool. JMO. __________________ My school colors are black and blue, I attended the School of Hard Knocks where I received a Masters Degree in Chronic Mopery.

06-23-2015, 11:05 AM	#12
hardtimes Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: South California Posts: 6,188	Re: spring perch removal..Q Hey Fordors, Thanks for you input. Yeah, I've been schooled about cast vs forged old Ford axles. That led to meet up with 'Okie Joe' near the Pomona father swap/car show. Me and Fordbarn bud got two of Joe's dropped 4" Ford forged axles. They look ...well bent...hm bending up a perfectly good axle, go figure ! I gave Joe what looked to be a nos model a axle as core. He will contact model a 'restorer' with this piece...win-win-win, eh Ergo, I need these perches out of the original that is under my project.

06-23-2015, 11:14 AM	#13
Mart Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Solihull, England. Posts: 8,749	Re: spring perch removal..Q The truck guy may be right about being able to bend previously heated axles at lower loads than non heated ones, but the overwhelming evidence from years of hot rod modifications is that people can heat an early ford axle (in extreme cases for dropping) and the axle will be perfectly serviceable after. I haven't removed many perches, but did have success using some heat and driving the pin out with an air chisel (with a slightly modified punch). You don't need to worry about early ford stuff, it will take it. When driving out the pins the axle needs to be removed so the driving force is downwards with the axle supported on a solid surface. You'd struggle doing it on a car on a ramp for example. Mart.