04-26-2020, 02:56 PM | #1 |
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Unleaded Gas
When leaded gas was banned cars at the time began to suffer valve/seat erosion. The fix for the classics at the time was rebuilding engines with stainless valves and hardened seats. Seems the problem of unleaded gas is no longer a problem with older vehicles - just wondering why. Is there now additives in gas that provides the lubrication that lead use to ? Can older engines up to the early 70s now be rebuilt with stock valves and seats ? Inquiring minds want to know.
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04-26-2020, 03:45 PM | #2 |
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Re: Unleaded Gas
I put Marvel Mystery Oil in Gas only,helps with lubrication upper end,valves etc. Never a problem.
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04-26-2020, 03:52 PM | #3 |
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Re: Unleaded Gas
lead was added to fuel as a anti knock agent for hi compression. Before that is was unleaded.
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04-26-2020, 03:58 PM | #4 |
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Re: Unleaded Gas
Lots of good info here.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tetraethyllead Am not sure, but have been told the A runs fine on unleaded and does not require Lead Substitute. As far as other cars from the late 30s/40s/50s/60s maybe use of lead substitute on vehicles not upgraded require lead substitute? |
04-26-2020, 04:10 PM | #5 |
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Re: Unleaded Gas
Good afternoon all...As I understand it, our 'A's are low compression if stock. Like 4.2 and even with higher compression heads...not usually over 6.0. No lead substitute required. The cars of the late 50's and 60's had V-8 engines and much higher compression...they were designed to run on leaded gasoline. I had my first 'A' in the early 60's and ran the most inexpensive gas that the shell station where I worked had. The car ran fine...Today I have a 31 Tudor with a 5.5 head and run regular gasoline...and the old girl is happy. I don't believe that leaded gas was available in 1931. Ernie in Arizona
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04-26-2020, 04:27 PM | #6 |
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Re: Unleaded Gas
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04-26-2020, 06:11 PM | #7 |
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Re: Unleaded Gas
I use a product that I don't think is available in the US. It is made by a friend and sold almost everywhere else in the world. It is called Flashlube. It prevents valve seat recession and acts as an upper cylinder lubricant. 1 ml in a litre of fuel is all it takes. That's a ratio of 1:1,000.I always have at least one 50ml bottle in the door pocket.
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04-27-2020, 08:10 AM | #8 | |
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Re: Unleaded Gas
Today the anti-knock additive is alcohol - which by a surplus of oxygen attached "oxygenates" the fuel/air mix and improves burning - thereby preventing knock.
MTBE was used for a while between tetraethyl lead and alcohol, but that was found carcinogenic and was "embedding itself" into the fuel chain. Wikipedia: Tetraethyl Lead Quote:
All you need to know about Octane is found at https://www.eesi.org/papers/view/fac...tory-of-octane Joe K
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04-27-2020, 09:30 PM | #9 |
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Re: Unleaded Gas
As I understand it the lower octane fuels actually are easier to ignite and burn and will provide more power than the high octane fuels.
The octane number is a measurement of resistance to pre-ignition. The higher the octane number the harder it is to ignite the fuel making it a better choice to run in a high compression engine but gives no benefit to a lower compression engine such as what we have in our Model A's.
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04-27-2020, 11:45 PM | #10 | |
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Re: Unleaded Gas
Quote:
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04-28-2020, 06:41 AM | #11 | |
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Re: Unleaded Gas
I would have never thought that possible and would have argued (like an idiot). Thanks to you two for bringing that to our attention.
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04-28-2020, 11:23 AM | #12 |
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Re: Unleaded Gas
The relationship of gasoline and valve train performance is not correct in my opinion. Look through the Ford service bulletins and you will see that valves were problematic in the Model "A" engine before leaded gasoline. The metallurgy was not corrected during Model "A" production, and not before WW2. WW2 high performance fighter plane engines and post war racing brought about major improvements in valve technology.
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04-28-2020, 12:15 PM | #13 |
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Re: Unleaded Gas
In the model A era you had low compression, long stroke, slow turning engines so low octane fuel was fine. Then in the 50s and 60s engines started having higher compression, shorter strokes, higher RPM and needed higher valve spring pressure. Lead was added to boost octane for the higher compression engines and the lead acted as a cushion on the valve seat. Then they outlawed lead in the gas so engine builders had to go to hardened valve seats. For our Model As I think you could get away with regular valve seats because our engines are slow turning with weak valve springs. But hardened seats are so common now that there is no point in not using them.
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04-29-2020, 04:18 AM | #14 | |
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Re: Unleaded Gas
Quote:
Lead was a Chev innovation (much later than the Model A ) Henry wasn't ever going to recommend its use !
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04-29-2020, 04:26 AM | #15 | |
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Re: Unleaded Gas
Quote:
I'm really not sure that any of it does what it claims to do. Sometimes I convince myself that the car runs better with additives other times I think its all snake oil -Would love to see some really well designed trials -In the meantime i remain a semi committed user !
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04-30-2020, 05:53 AM | #16 | |
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Re: Unleaded Gas
Quote:
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05-05-2020, 06:01 PM | #17 |
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Re: Unleaded Gas
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05-07-2020, 09:45 AM | #18 |
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Re: Unleaded Gas
Look here for the history leaded gasoline.
http://www.columbia.edu/itc/sipa/env...agu1990%29.pdf
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05-08-2020, 11:28 AM | #19 |
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Re: Unleaded Gas
When the Model A was built the only fuel was "White Gas" There was no lead added nor needed. No lead fuel will cause no issues with our cars. Now Alcohol in our fuel does cause problems especially when most our cars sit more than are driven and the fuel separates and makes a mess of our fuel lines, tank, carb etc.
I use alcohol free fuel which I can get locally. Now touring it is not as important if I am running the fuel through and then fill up with the good stuff when tour is done. |
05-08-2020, 05:57 PM | #20 |
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Re: Unleaded Gas
I use MMO in oil and gas.I saw a friend drain oil into a metal drain pan.The oil stuck to the sides of the pan when he poured it out,had to wipe it off the sides of the drain pan. I have used it ever since.
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