ARP bolts

[Ol' Ron]

I don't have anything against ARP bolts, because they're definitely a quality item. The company has a very good advertising agency working for them , as every time you see an engine build on TV or the web sites , they all use a ARP bolts , and if your not using ten, your making an inferior product, and for between 30 and 60 dollars we can sell you some screws that will hols you oil pan on better than the original ford ones. Now allot of new people seem to believe you have to use these parts when rebuilding you engine, and that in clues the 120 hp flatheads. I have NEVER used an ARP bolt on any engine i ever built and that includes several Hems. When I built engines, most guys thought I charged too much. I'm glad I don't do that any more and with the cost of building them in the future, most people won't beagle to afford them.
Gramps

[tubman]

I have to agree with Ron on this. I always thought ARP fasteners, while quality parts, were seriously over priced. Since I don't build ultra high performance engines, original Ford hardware in good shape has always been fine.

[Tim Ayers]

C'mon, guys. That's like saying Porterhouse steaks suck because they cost too much. Let's not go down this road. If you buy them right, they aren't that much more.

Use what you want, but don't speak opinion as fact.

[1948F-1Pickup]

My comment is not really flathead oriented but there are definitely applications where the OE fastener was a POS design or under-sized. 289 Ford connecting rod bolts come to mind but there are others. I won’t use anything but ARP in that application.
ARP has definitely evolved in quality and in price. “Way back when” engine builders wouldn’t touch ARP..... I used to use SPS back when I did race stuff.

[Bob T]

Don't need ARP to hold on tin parts but love them for rods; mains and head bolts.

[tubman]

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Tim, Where can you "buy them right"? The last time I looked, a set of ARP head studs were around $500 at Speedway. I won't pay $50/lb. for Porterhouse, no matter how good it is. (I like Rib-Eyes better anyway.)

[Desoto291Hemi]

Lol,,,,,some applications they are worth it .
Mains,,,rods. Heads,,,,,studs and bolts sometimes need an upgrade .
But,,,,oil pan bolts,,,,,nope .
And,,,,,the factory rods in flatheads have the bolts forged into them,,,well cast I think is the correct term .
Factory rods seem to:work very well in a Flathead ,,,,,don’t they ?
Now,,,,these rods were designed and used in a 100 hp engine,,,,,not a 400 hp high performance engine,,,,right .
So,,,,,go with what you need to make it live .
Also,,,,,,the factory hardware from back then is still top notch quality,,,,,very tight tolerance in the head bolt holes,,,,and very good steel in the crankshaft.
Remember,,,they used to weld these cranks and make strokers from them way back then .

Like I said,,,,,,if you feel you need better grade parts,,,go for it .
My little 8BA will probably make 145 hp or so after my upgrades,,,,,so I’m not terribly worried about the aftermarket stuff all that bad .

Tommy

[Brian]

So, I guess the bolts in this thread; https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showthread.php?t=295953
weren't ARP? lol

[Tinker]

I miss the options of fordbolts and roy. I have used arp a couple times. Replaced bolts on a ridiculousness idea for a yblock flywheel hardware idea, of saving a dollar on bolts and put grade 8 hardware bolts in. Changed those out when I came to my senses. There are substitutes and don't have an issue with reusing ford bolts.


I get what OlRon is saying. It's not the only option. It's a good option. I guess I have a issue with the look of the fasteners and the quality when it comes to the visual aspect when it's shown (which is available) I don't want allenhead bolts on a stock car when it's seen. No issue with internal bolts. Nobody is going to see them.

[STAN WHITE]

I have found that the standard 7/16 stud that you would purchase from your average parts store for the heads are not concentric, from end to end. If you put them in a lathe using a 7/16 Collet , holding by the coarse thread and the by the fine thread you would not believe the amount of runout that they have ! The ARP Studs are more expensive no doubt about it. When you have a total of 24 studs with that much runout I think it creates an interfearence problem with the cylinder head. This is just my opinion. I prefer to use ARP studs that are very concentric. Yes they are more exspensive. Stan

[Tim Ayers]

Originally Posted by tubman

Tim, Where can you "buy them right"? The last time I looked, a set of ARP head studs were around $500 at Speedway. I won't pay $50/lb. for Porterhouse, no matter how good it is. (I like Rib-Eyes better anyway.)

Allen’s fasteners. They are in AZ. I’ll copy the link here. You buy them individually. Once you buy 25, you get a discount. Head studs came out to around $300. Just having the hex socket on the end is enticing enough if they ever have to come out, but the are straight, strong and well made.

https://www.allensfasteners.com/

You need to do a little leg work and know what length you need, but well worth the effort.

Speedway is overpriced on ARP stuff.

[Desoto291Hemi]

Good idea Tim,,,,,do some shopping and save a lot of money .
Still top quality,,,,but a lot less expensive .
Even though my 49 Merc came with head bolts,,,I am planning on using studs when it goes back together .
I want to make sure the seal is there for water,,,,,and then the clamping force,,,just to add an extra peace of mind .

Tommy

[Tim Ayers]

Originally Posted by Brian

So, I guess the bolts in this thread; https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showthread.php?t=295953
weren't ARP? lol

Brian:

That thread is what got me thinking about this. Did Ford make or have quality OE hardware made? Without question.

For a few dollars, why wouldn't you use known quality hardware in critical spots? Without the proper knowledge or understanding to know what to look for, you could be using a bolt that is past it's life expectancy and is ready to let loose. We see what damage that can cause.

I've come to the realization that time is just as expensive as money the hard way. Redoing stuff or having stuff fail because you went cheap is no cost savings at all. It actually cost you more in the end.

[Ol' Ron]

As fa as head bolts are concerned, a grade#5 hardware store bolt would be more than adequate to hold the head on in ever a highly modified engine. When torquing a bolt to yield to reach it's greatest strength/ when installing a head on the flathead with 24 7/16 bolts to 45 ft/lbs three 3 heat cycles, you have not exceed the yield strength of the bolt. I worked in the machine industry (Bulards) and bolting thes together, considering the application , the number and size of the bolts had to be determined. I'm sure sonething like this is part of every automotive manufacture and the stock bolts used in the flathead were probably designed to exceed the maximums load load on them by at leas 100&. I think the fasteners are made from Ford E Steel.
Now I don't suggest you buy some Chinese grade#5 bolts, but befor you say the stock bot is not strong enough, why?????? Now if i was running 20 lbs of boost, I might consider ARP bolts.

[Ziggster]

I agree with Ron. After waiting for an eternity in trying to source some Gr 8 flanged head bolts from Hillman, I broke down and purchased some ARP flange head bolts from Allen Fasteners. I believe there were about US$175.00 which is a reasonable price considering the price I’ve seen with some vendors for stud “kits”. I ultimately just went with Gr 8 Hex Hd bolts from Caterpillar. I believe these bolts were about CAN$100.00, and match the orig Ford bolts very closely with the only difference being a slightly less thick head.

[hotrodart]

I look at ARP fasteners as an insurance policy to hold my very high revving SBC engine together (302 Trans Am race engine). Quality control is more important to me. They are cheap compared to the overall cost of the rest of the parts on that engine. Sort of like comparing cast parts to forged parts for rotating assemblies.



I would never consider them for my 286 inch Ford flathead engine.....loads/stresses are quite low.

[rockfla]

Where ARP has it over the majority of "fastener" suppliers like me IS......ARP is catering to the automotive/automotive racing industry and I would bet, the latter more than the earlier (ie you pay a "headache" fee)......AS the earlier yield way more in profit THUS increasing the profit (or makes the latter more cost effective) of their main-line business. Back to my original comment......Fastener suppliers like me cater to the "Heavy Industrial" and "Commercial" market, where "most" diameters and or thread pitches match exactly.....THE "FORM" of them does NOT.....AS mentioned above and "Flange Headed" bolts!!! I'm my 23 years of supplying bolts, I have yet to find a plumber, electrician, boiler maker or steel hanger "needing" a flange head bolt!!!! NOR do they care about the "straightness" down to thousands of an inch!!! SO commercial supplier like me are NO competition for ARP cause IF we did ARP wouldn't be near as expensive. Niche' market comes to mind!!!!!

[Pete]

ARP is good stuff but for several applications not necessary if you have a lathe.
I have built quite a few all out vintage circle track flathead engines and have never bought a specialty fastener other than the rods I use come with them.
I make main and head studs by single pointing them in a lathe so I know they are concentric and the thread will have a polished finish. The thread also has a slightly modified configuration.I then have them heat treated to my specs. The final cost is comparative to what ARP sells them for.

[Ronnieroadster]

Seriously I'm amazed this is really a topic for this forum. Your not interested in buying the best quality available so be it. As Tim wrote you can find the product at extremely fair prices. And as Pete wrote making hardware yourself you can have quality that way but it takes time which adds up to money.
Wasn't there recently a post for someone who experienced a center main bearing cap failure? Was it caused by stock appearing bolts? Makes you wonder a bit more cash for quality or will stock more than due. Sometimes maybe not!
Ronnieroadster

[JWL]

There are NO fasteners in a stock or modified Flathead engine which have their capabilities exceeded unless there is a defect or other compromising influence in the fastener at the time of installation. PERIOD.