Gasket between manifolds?

[EZLIFE]

I am installing new intake and exhaust manifolds from Snyder’s and wondering if I should use Permatex between them where they bolt together? If so which one? Maybe stop heat transfer?

[Marshall V. Daut]

No sealant needed: nothing to seal.

And don't tighten the two bolts holding the manifolds together until AFTER the four gland nuts have nestled in the manifolds against the engine block. And then tighten them slowly so that you don't put undue stress on the intake manifold.
Marshall

[Marshall V. Daut]

By the way, use the manifold glands in the exhaust ports so that the engine block ports and the exhaust manifold ports will line up properly and seal potential exhaust leaks. Installing the glands at this time when the manifolds are new will ensure that the rear of the exhaust manifold won't droop over time from the weight of the muffler exerting downward pulling force on the hot manifold. Unsupported manifolds WILL eventually droop. We old timers in this hobby have a box of now-worthless exhaust manifolds that are drooping because somewhere along the line, some owner didn't re-install the gland rings. Start your new manifolds out right and use the gland rings.
And don't use those crappy green cardboard gaskets! They will blow out in short order, resulting in a ticking noise and escaping carbon monoxide fumes that always find their way into the passenger compartment. Years ago those cardboard gaskets were much studier than they are now. The cardboard gaskets included in engine gasket sets or available as a separate item are one step above the strength of toilet paper. Bad news. Spend the extra few dollars on the correct style copper gaskets for your car's year (there are two styles). In all likelihood, you'll never have to change gaskets again if you use the copper gaskets. Don't even think about installing the textured one-piece silver gasket! It is a born leak maker. Even with new manifolds and gland rings, I never could get that gasket to seal worth a darn. This is a case where biting the bullet and buying the more expensive gaskets is worth the extra cost.
Marshall

[redmodelt]

Better yet, fit the two parts together and make sure the ports all line up. If they don't have the whole thing faced as an assembled unit so they do. Had a case where that was not done and the customer broke a brand-new exhaust manifold.

[Synchro909]

Machining the exhaust manifold - another trap for RHD owners. Take any more than a lick off it and you won't be able to use the clutch. Ask me how I know!

[Marshall V. Daut]

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Machining the exhaust manifold - another trap for RHD owners. Take any more than a lick off it and you won't be able to use the clutch. Ask me how I know!

Well, what else can you expect from a country that drives on the wrong side of the road???

Good tip for right-hand drive Model A's, Synchro909! 'Never thought of that trap...

Marshall

[CT Jack]

Marshall has some good suggestions but I recently found a problem with using gland rings.
I am assembling a new Burtz engine and using a new US made exhaust manifold. The manifold gasket set that I always use is the copper clad set with locating holes, not the slotted type. I have never used the metal gland rings but decided to try using them and found they were too tall, thereby preventing the manifold sealing surface from making contact with the block. I tried belt sanding the rings to reduce their height and found that a considerable amount of material had to be removed in order to use them. The use of the rings was abandoned. Maybe gland rings work well on a stock "A" engine block but it appears the counterbored entrance hole on a Burtz engine block is not deep enough to use steel gland rings as received.
As a matter of practice I always check the torque on the 4 manifold bolts (50#-ft). Maybe this helps to minimize manifold droop.

[EZLIFE]

The recommended torque for the manifold bolts seems to vary anywhere from 25 ft. lbs. on Brattons.com spec. page, up to 50 ft. lbs. Les Andrews book has been corrected from 45 ft. lbs. down to 25 ft. lbs. Is 25 ft. lbs. the present day thinking?

[alexiskai]

Originally Posted by EZLIFE

The recommended torque for the manifold bolts seems to vary anywhere from 25 ft. lbs. on Brattons.com spec. page, up to 50 ft. lbs. Les Andrews book has been corrected from 45 ft. lbs. down to 25 ft. lbs. Is 25 ft. lbs. the present day thinking?

Some topic drift here, but anyway, there's active disagreement about that figure. The problem is there are so many variables – manifold decked or not, the repro washers are softer, people using different gaskets, are you torquing incrementally or not, etc. My suggestion is to tighten by feel and then recheck after a few runs, make sure they're not loosening.

[Y-Blockhead]

I have heard good things about Remflex gaskets. Has anyone used them?

Originally Posted by CT Jack

Maybe gland rings work well on a stock "A" engine block but it appears the counterbored entrance hole on a Burtz engine block is not deep enough to use steel gland rings as received.

I know nothing about the Burtz engine. Is the Burtz block even machined for gland rings? Pictures I've seen it appears they are not.

[JayJay]

Originally Posted by CT Jack

Marshall has some good suggestions but I recently found a problem with using gland rings.
I am assembling a new Burtz engine and using a new US made exhaust manifold. The manifold gasket set that I always use is the copper clad set with locating holes, not the slotted type. I have never used the metal gland rings but decided to try using them and found they were too tall, thereby preventing the manifold sealing surface from making contact with the block. I tried belt sanding the rings to reduce their height and found that a considerable amount of material had to be removed in order to use them. The use of the rings was abandoned. Maybe gland rings work well on a stock "A" engine block but it appears the counterbored entrance hole on a Burtz engine block is not deep enough to use steel gland rings as received.
As a matter of practice I always check the torque on the 4 manifold bolts (50#-ft). Maybe this helps to minimize manifold droop.

Because you never know how much a manifold mating surface on the block may have been machined over the years (obviously not an issue with a new Burtz block), nor how much the mating surface of the manifolds may have been decked, I always measure the depth of the two grooves (block and manifold) and then grind the glands to equal that measurement. Then you know that you will be able to compress the gasket. If you are a few thousands wide on the glands you will likely still be able to compress the gasket adequately, but you should never have to wonder whether you are tightening against the glands versus tightening against the gasket.

I've had several exhaust manifolds that had drooped from failure to use the glands, one so badly that the manifold dropped below the #4 exhaust port and exhaust was shooting out over the top of the manifold. I know others have differing opinions (and we've discussed several times here) but I'm a believer.

JayJay

[rotorwrench]

I've no experience with the Burtz block but I would like to know if they are counterbored for those gland rings or not. Most of the original blocks are. I've found some of the counterbores to be eroded where the gland seats but the glands still worked in them.

The rear end of the exhaust manifold does like to sag over time with a good portion of the exhaust system weight riding on it. Ford should have added another support for the muffler but they didn't.

[alexiskai]

Originally Posted by Y-Blockhead

I have heard good things about Remflex gaskets. Has anyone used them?

I have a set ready to go on the project car, but none in use. I also have heard good things.

[Shiloh]

Originally Posted by Marshall V. Daut

No sealant needed: nothing to seal.

And don't tighten the two bolts holding the manifolds together until AFTER the four gland nuts have nestled in the manifolds against the engine block. And then tighten them slowly so that you don't put undue stress on the intake manifold.
Marshall

Good advice here! I’ve got a trashed intake manifold that broke an ear because I tighten the intake and exhaust together before mounting everything on the engine….

[jack backer]

No gasket or sealer between the manifolds.. the reason they are bolted together with a large facing surface is for heat transfer,it prevents icing and improves performance.

[Synchro909]

Originally Posted by Marshall V. Daut

Machining the exhaust manifold - another trap for RHD owners. Take any more than a lick off it and you won't be able to use the clutch. Ask me how I know!

Well, what else can you expect from a country that drives on the wrong side of the road??? :)

Good tip for right-hand drive Model A's, Synchro909! 'Never thought of that trap...

Marshall

Marshall, you got that wrong. We sit on the right side of the car and drive on the correct side of the road!!!
Pass another beer, mate.

[Big hammer]

Yea ! We park our cars in the driveway, and drive on the parkway? But we drive on top of the world ! If I drank beer ( had to give it up after gallbladder surgery ) I’d pass you a beer!

[nkaminar]

The studs for the manifolds are the same size as the head bolts. I torque them to 50 foot-pounds and then re torque several times, when cold, after the initial runs. I use the metal clad gaskets. This is my procedure after having the gaskets blow out several times and it has proven to be correct.