The Ford Barn

Dennis Mielke · 07-23-2017, 11:54 PM

Can anyone tell me the best way to remove a stuck drum?

Thanks

Charlie Stephens · 07-24-2017, 12:22 AM

We need more details. What have you done so far? Are you using a KR Wilson (or other quality) puller? Has it popped off of the axle and is stuck on the shoes? Has it popped of of the axle and possibly being held by safety hubs (look for two threaded studs coming out through the axle housings as an indication of safety hubs)?

Charlie Stephens

19Fordy · 07-24-2017, 09:57 AM

Post some photos along with replies to above questions.

Dennis Mielke · 07-24-2017, 03:29 PM

The drums are on a hydraulic brake conversion on a 34 sedan. The drums turn freely so not stuck to the shoes. They appear to just be stuck to the hubs. I've viewed several videos on YouTube showing several ways. Some people say bang on the drums with a hammer, others say don't and various other methods use gear pullers, but all are on 1960s and later drums. Haven't been able th find any info on early ford drums. I've thought of banging around the drums with a hammer and then using a gear puller hooking it to the outer lips of the drum but wanted th check if any ford barn members had any better ideas.
Thanks for any suggestions.

Mart · 07-24-2017, 03:36 PM

Whoa! Forget all that generic stuff.

For an early ford you NEED an early Ford type hub puller.

Several posts here praising the Vintage Precision puller. (One from myself). If you can find/afford one, the KR Wilson puller is the best.

Do not attempt to do the job with anything else.

https://fordbarn.com/forum/showthread.php?t=100312

https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/...puller.587471/

One on the hamb from our dearly Missed friend Dick.
https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/...w-tool.343596/

I just looked and can't find anything on youtube showing an early Ford rear hub removal. Next time I do one I'll video it and post it up.

Mart.

JSeery · 07-24-2017, 03:50 PM

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

I think Mart covered it, but just in case, you can NOT use a normal puller. It will destroy the drums. You HAVE to have a puller made specifically for the early Ford drum/hub.

Andy · 07-24-2017, 04:14 PM

He is trying to separate the hubs from the drums. Different problem. The studs are actually rivets and must be machined to remove. I have drilled and I have ground. By far the easiest is to use a 5/8" deep hole saw. Yes it will cut the soft metal. You just it put over the stud and drill away. It may start to cut some of the stud threads but so what. It is really kind of automatic as the cone shaped rimnent of the stud will start turning and will slow down the drilling.
What ever you do, DO NOT TRY TO BEAT THEM OUT. You will bend the flange and it will need to be faced.

Mart · 07-24-2017, 04:37 PM

Andy, with utmost respect, I don't think the OP realised the drums have to come off with the hubs. I think the hubs are still on the axle, but he thinks the drums come off.

Dennis, The drums are riveted to the hubs via the studs. you need to pull the hub and drum as a complete unit. Hence the advice to get the correct puller.

Mart.

Andy · 07-24-2017, 05:21 PM

Mart, You are right. I went too fast. At least I told him they are a unit.

19Fordy · 07-24-2017, 05:28 PM

Dennis, You need to explain more clearly what the problem is.
Photos are needed if you desire the best solution.

Charlie Stephens · 07-24-2017, 06:15 PM

Dennis,

I think I understand your problem. You need to know the drum and hub come off of the rear as an assembly. They are permanently attached to each other. The drum doesn't come off like it does on a modern rear end. If you don't use the correct puller you will damage parts. Contact your local Model A or Early V8 club and see if they have the correct puller. The correct puller will pull from the center snout on the hub. Do not use a puller that attaches to the studs to pull. Once the hub/drum assemblies are removed if you need to replace the drum (or hub) you need to find a machine shop that knows what they are doing (not one that has a big hammer). If you added your general location to your profile someone might be able to direct you to a local shop that knows what they are doing.

Charlie Stephens

V8COOPMAN · 07-24-2017, 08:17 PM

Mac VanPelt will rent his Winfield hub removal tool at a very fair rate.....see below! DD

This is the Winfield Tool Works hub puller for rental only. Safely removes stubborn drum hubs. Available for 2 week ($25.00) or 1 month ($40.00) rental plus the UPS to and from our warehouse. Requires a $200.00 deposit on credit card. USA customer locations only. We supply the UPS return label for easy drop off at your local UPS Store for return. Call to schedule.

VANPELT SALES LLC
P O Box 327
Batavia, Ohio 45103 USA
(800) 299-7496 Toll Free in USA

drolston · 07-24-2017, 09:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Charlie Stephens

Dennis,

I think I understand your problem. You need to know the drum and hub come off of the rear as an assembly. They are permanently attached to each other. The drum doesn't come off like it does on a modern rear end. If you don't use the correct puller you will damage parts. Contact your local Model A or Early V8 club and see if they have the correct puller. The correct puller will pull from the center snout on the hub. Do not use a puller that attaches to the studs to pull. Once the hub/drum assemblies are removed if you need to replace the drum (or hub) you need to find a machine shop that knows what they are doing (not one that has a big hammer). If you added your general location to your profile someone might be able to direct you to a local shop that knows what they are doing.

Charlie Stephens

I have a wheel puller from way back that bolts to three wheel studs; crank down on the center bolt and whack the head of said bolt with a ball peen. Tighten it a bit more and whack again. Always worked; never a problem. You run the axel nut onto the axel, castellated side down, until it is almost flush, to protect the end threads of the axel. What is the supposed problem with this type of puller. I am about to pull the rear hubs on my '41 and do not want to mess something up.

Andy · 07-24-2017, 10:00 PM

You understand that the hub in no way is affected by hitting on the axle. The hub is not backed up with anything. Hitting on the end of the axle is the same as hitting on the carrier bearings. If the axle did not have the axle bells to hide the forces and you hit the end of the axle you could see you were just hitting the center section. The hub just rides along.
I grant you there is a shock wave that goes down the axle but the force goes to the carrier bearings.
I would get a proper tool or be ready to rebuild the axle plus buy new hubs.

grumppyoldman · 07-27-2017, 01:31 PM

Andy's right do not hammer on the end of the axle or a puller attached to the axle, you are hammering on the timken bearings in the rear end, and on the penion gear if on driver's side. Bad idea. Al

Karl Wolf · 07-27-2017, 10:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by drolston

I have a wheel puller from way back that bolts to three wheel studs; crank down on the center bolt and whack the head of said bolt with a ball peen. Tighten it a bit more and whack again. Always worked; never a problem. You run the axel nut onto the axel, castellated side down, until it is almost flush, to protect the end threads of the axel. What is the supposed problem with this type of puller. I am about to pull the rear hubs on my '41 and do not want to mess something up.

If you can get the drum off with your puller...
You will bend the drum, no maybe.
Or, it was way too loose.

Karl

drolston · 07-28-2017, 02:08 PM

The tool offered by Mac's clamps to the hub center, not the studs. Is it functional and safe for the drums and axel? Do I need one of those cap nuts to protect the axel threads, or will the reversed axel nut suffice?

V8COOPMAN · 07-28-2017, 03:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by drolston

The tool offered by Mac's clamps to the hub center, not the studs. Is it functional and safe for the drums and axel? Do I need one of those cap nuts to protect the axel threads, or will the reversed axel nut suffice?

DON'T WASTE YOUR MONEY AND TIME ON THIS 'ECONOMY' THINGIE!

Mac VanPelt's rental tool(NOT TO BE CONFUSED WITH MAC'S ANTIQUE FORD PARTS) DOES clamp to the hub CENTER. SEE post #12 above! That is the only correct way to remove these drum/hub assemblies. It will have ALL of the pieces to safely use it. Your drums and axles will love you for it. DD

drolston · 07-28-2017, 03:08 PM

The one pictured clamps to the hub center. The back disk is split to fit behind the wide part of the hub center. The front disk holds the back pieces together. Why is this one not okay?

RCS41PU · 07-28-2017, 03:14 PM

vintageprecision.com
This puller works very well.
Richard

07-24-2017, 12:22 AM	#2
Charlie Stephens Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Southern California Posts: 7,030	Re: Removing 1940 drums We need more details. What have you done so far? Are you using a KR Wilson (or other quality) puller? Has it popped off of the axle and is stuck on the shoes? Has it popped of of the axle and possibly being held by safety hubs (look for two threaded studs coming out through the axle housings as an indication of safety hubs)? Charlie Stephens

07-24-2017, 09:57 AM	#3
19Fordy Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Coral Springs FL Posts: 10,925	Re: Removing 1940 drums Post some photos along with replies to above questions.

07-24-2017, 03:29 PM	#4
Dennis Mielke Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Costa Mesa, CA Posts: 38	Re: Removing 1940 drums The drums are on a hydraulic brake conversion on a 34 sedan. The drums turn freely so not stuck to the shoes. They appear to just be stuck to the hubs. I've viewed several videos on YouTube showing several ways. Some people say bang on the drums with a hammer, others say don't and various other methods use gear pullers, but all are on 1960s and later drums. Haven't been able th find any info on early ford drums. I've thought of banging around the drums with a hammer and then using a gear puller hooking it to the outer lips of the drum but wanted th check if any ford barn members had any better ideas. Thanks for any suggestions.

07-24-2017, 03:36 PM	#5
Mart Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Solihull, England. Posts: 8,745	Re: Removing 1940 drums Whoa! Forget all that generic stuff. For an early ford you NEED an early Ford type hub puller. Several posts here praising the Vintage Precision puller. (One from myself). If you can find/afford one, the KR Wilson puller is the best. Do not attempt to do the job with anything else. https://fordbarn.com/forum/showthread.php?t=100312 https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/...puller.587471/ One on the hamb from our dearly Missed friend Dick. https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/...w-tool.343596/ I just looked and can't find anything on youtube showing an early Ford rear hub removal. Next time I do one I'll video it and post it up. Mart. Last edited by Mart; 07-24-2017 at 03:45 PM.

07-24-2017, 03:50 PM	#6
JSeery Member Emeritus Join Date: Nov 2012 Location: Wichita KS Posts: 16,132	Re: Removing 1940 drums Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) I think Mart covered it, but just in case, you can NOT use a normal puller. It will destroy the drums. You HAVE to have a puller made specifically for the early Ford drum/hub.

07-23-2017, 11:54 PM	#1
Dennis Mielke Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Costa Mesa, CA Posts: 38	Removing 1940 drums Can anyone tell me the best way to remove a stuck drum? Thanks

07-24-2017, 04:14 PM	#7
Andy Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Kerrville, Tx Posts: 2,769	Re: Removing 1940 drums He is trying to separate the hubs from the drums. Different problem. The studs are actually rivets and must be machined to remove. I have drilled and I have ground. By far the easiest is to use a 5/8" deep hole saw. Yes it will cut the soft metal. You just it put over the stud and drill away. It may start to cut some of the stud threads but so what. It is really kind of automatic as the cone shaped rimnent of the stud will start turning and will slow down the drilling. What ever you do, DO NOT TRY TO BEAT THEM OUT. You will bend the flange and it will need to be faced.

07-24-2017, 04:37 PM	#8
Mart Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Solihull, England. Posts: 8,745	Re: Removing 1940 drums Andy, with utmost respect, I don't think the OP realised the drums have to come off with the hubs. I think the hubs are still on the axle, but he thinks the drums come off. Dennis, The drums are riveted to the hubs via the studs. you need to pull the hub and drum as a complete unit. Hence the advice to get the correct puller. Mart.

07-24-2017, 05:21 PM	#9
Andy Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Kerrville, Tx Posts: 2,769	Re: Removing 1940 drums Mart, You are right. I went too fast. At least I told him they are a unit.

07-24-2017, 05:28 PM	#10
19Fordy Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Coral Springs FL Posts: 10,925	Re: Removing 1940 drums Dennis, You need to explain more clearly what the problem is. Photos are needed if you desire the best solution.

07-24-2017, 06:15 PM	#11
Charlie Stephens Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Southern California Posts: 7,030	Re: Removing 1940 drums Dennis, I think I understand your problem. You need to know the drum and hub come off of the rear as an assembly. They are permanently attached to each other. The drum doesn't come off like it does on a modern rear end. If you don't use the correct puller you will damage parts. Contact your local Model A or Early V8 club and see if they have the correct puller. The correct puller will pull from the center snout on the hub. Do not use a puller that attaches to the studs to pull. Once the hub/drum assemblies are removed if you need to replace the drum (or hub) you need to find a machine shop that knows what they are doing (not one that has a big hammer). If you added your general location to your profile someone might be able to direct you to a local shop that knows what they are doing. Charlie Stephens

07-24-2017, 08:17 PM	#12
V8COOPMAN Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: East Shore of LAKE HOUSTON Posts: 11,106	Re: Removing 1940 drums Mac VanPelt will rent his Winfield hub removal tool at a very fair rate.....see below! DD This is the Winfield Tool Works hub puller for rental only. Safely removes stubborn drum hubs. Available for 2 week ($25.00) or 1 month ($40.00) rental plus the UPS to and from our warehouse. Requires a $200.00 deposit on credit card. USA customer locations only. We supply the UPS return label for easy drop off at your local UPS Store for return. Call to schedule. VANPELT SALES LLC P O Box 327 Batavia, Ohio 45103 USA (800) 299-7496 Toll Free in USA __________________ *Click Links Below* __ ▼ *'35-'36 W/8BA & MECHANICAL FAN* *T5 W/TORQUE TUBE*

07-24-2017, 10:00 PM	#14
Andy Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Kerrville, Tx Posts: 2,769	Re: Removing 1940 drums You understand that the hub in no way is affected by hitting on the axle. The hub is not backed up with anything. Hitting on the end of the axle is the same as hitting on the carrier bearings. If the axle did not have the axle bells to hide the forces and you hit the end of the axle you could see you were just hitting the center section. The hub just rides along. I grant you there is a shock wave that goes down the axle but the force goes to the carrier bearings. I would get a proper tool or be ready to rebuild the axle plus buy new hubs.

07-27-2017, 01:31 PM	#15
grumppyoldman Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2017 Location: Texas Gulf Coast Posts: 727	Re: Removing 1940 drums Andy's right do not hammer on the end of the axle or a puller attached to the axle, you are hammering on the timken bearings in the rear end, and on the penion gear if on driver's side. Bad idea. Al

07-28-2017, 03:08 PM	#19
drolston Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2014 Location: Williamsburg, VA Posts: 1,627	Re: Removing 1940 drums The one pictured clamps to the hub center. The back disk is split to fit behind the wide part of the hub center. The front disk holds the back pieces together. Why is this one not okay?

07-28-2017, 03:14 PM	#20
RCS41PU Member Join Date: Jan 2015 Location: Alabama Posts: 58	Re: Removing 1940 drums vintageprecision.com This puller works very well. Richard