Go Back   The Ford Barn > General Discussion > Model A (1928-31)

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 03-26-2018, 01:57 PM   #41
1931 flamingo
Senior Member
 
1931 flamingo's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: new britain,ct 06052
Posts: 7,419
Default Re: Chasing the knock.

At least you're not afraid to "get into it".
Keep us updated.
Paul in CT
1931 flamingo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-26-2018, 03:13 PM   #42
WHN
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Old Lyme Connecticut
Posts: 488
Default Re: Chasing the knock.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Garagekulture13 View Post
Well I got this far today. I hope this is evidence this is my knock. Also that's my son at the end. He had to get in there and help.

https://youtu.be/lDI6grnm-Z0

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk
If your just replacing the timing gear. That could have been done without removing the front of car. You can do it even with the hood left on.

Remove generator, fan belt, timing gear cover, timing gear. Than reverse process, and your done. Couple of hours work.
WHN is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)
Old 03-26-2018, 07:33 PM   #43
1955cj5
Senior Member
 
1955cj5's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Boise, Idaho
Posts: 1,313
Default Re: Chasing the knock.

I think that is a neat video!

You can sure hear and see that cam gear "slap" when the valve spring pressure on it changes.

I did about the same amount of disassembly when I got mine home, only it was to change the leaking water pump and four blade fan.

No better way to learn how to disassemble and reassemble a Model A and a good opportunity to back flush the radiator.

I've had it apart three or four times since then.
__________________
Early '29 CCPU that had a 4-speed, but not any more.......in the family since '62

Last edited by 1955cj5; 03-26-2018 at 07:44 PM.
1955cj5 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-26-2018, 07:43 PM   #44
Spokes
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Monterey Peninsula,California
Posts: 187
Default Re: Chasing the knock.

Thank You For All The Great Pic's Some Of The Best I Have Seen On Ford barn
Spokes is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-26-2018, 07:51 PM   #45
Railcarmover
Senior Member
 
Railcarmover's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: Sacramento
Posts: 478
Default Re: Chasing the knock.

Don't know if changing the gear will cure your knock,but it will run better that's for sure.Valve timing that far out is bad..bet it wouldn't pull your hat off
Railcarmover is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-26-2018, 09:05 PM   #46
Garagekulture13
Senior Member
 
Garagekulture13's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Tennessee
Posts: 110
Default Re: Chasing the knock.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chuck Sea/Tac View Post
How did you run it with the valve cover off?? If your oil pump was pumping properly ( dirty screen) then all your oil would be on the floor.
It was all over the floor, fender, etc. LoL

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk
Garagekulture13 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-26-2018, 09:08 PM   #47
Garagekulture13
Senior Member
 
Garagekulture13's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Tennessee
Posts: 110
Default Re: Chasing the knock.

Quote:
Originally Posted by WHN View Post
If your just replacing the timing gear. That could have been done without removing the front of car. You can do it even with the hood left on.

Remove generator, fan belt, timing gear cover, timing gear. Than reverse process, and your done. Couple of hours work.
After further inspection I could see the crank gear had some pitting in one area. That pitted area coincided with the worn area on the timing gear. I assume someone replaced the timing gear at some point and did not replace the crank gear explaining the premature failure of the timing gear. So I plan to replace both.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk
Garagekulture13 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-26-2018, 10:01 PM   #48
Bulligen
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Elgin Illinois
Posts: 522
Default Re: Chasing the knock.

Nice Job !!
Bulligen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-26-2018, 10:32 PM   #49
CT Jack
Senior Member
 
CT Jack's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Hebron, CT
Posts: 138
Default Re: Chasing the knock.

The knock sounds familiar and my guess is the timing gear is worn. You can do a simple test to identify if it is the timing gear. Remove the timing pin on the bottom front of engine. Start the engine and slowly insert the timing pin into the timing hole with the rounded end of pin. Push the pin against the cam gear and if the knocking noise changes, gets softer this means it needs to be replaced. Usually the wear occurs on the ID of the gear or the nut can come loose creating excessive backlash.
CT Jack is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-27-2018, 12:17 PM   #50
Garagekulture13
Senior Member
 
Garagekulture13's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Tennessee
Posts: 110
Default Re: Chasing the knock.

Just checked the backlash on the cam gear and it looks terrible. What exactly does this mean?

https://youtu.be/ttluk5eYS_U

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk
Garagekulture13 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-27-2018, 01:12 PM   #51
Bulligen
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Elgin Illinois
Posts: 522
Default Re: Chasing the knock.

It just means that your fiber timing gear is so worn that as the engine is running and driving the timing will be constantly advancing or retarding because of the sloppiness of the meshing of the gears. its operation will be very inconsistent. When you put your new cam gear in you will notice a very nice even running engine.
Bulligen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-28-2018, 10:09 AM   #52
Railcarmover
Senior Member
 
Railcarmover's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: Sacramento
Posts: 478
Default Re: Chasing the knock.

It means you valve timing does not correspond with your piston position.basically your fixing a performance issue hoping it fixes a knock...
Railcarmover is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-28-2018, 02:52 PM   #53
Garagekulture13
Senior Member
 
Garagekulture13's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Tennessee
Posts: 110
Default Re: Chasing the knock.

Crankshaft gear I got from Snyder's differs from the gear I removed. When I line up the keyways you can see the teeth are about half a tooth off. Also the timing marks are 1 tooth different. Would this not throw the timing off?

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk
Garagekulture13 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-28-2018, 03:25 PM   #54
J Franklin
Senior Member
 
J Franklin's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: oregon
Posts: 3,054
Default Re: Chasing the knock.

Visibly loose in the timing gears! Keep up the good work.
J Franklin is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-28-2018, 03:40 PM   #55
Garagekulture13
Senior Member
 
Garagekulture13's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Tennessee
Posts: 110
Default Re: Chasing the knock.

Also my timing cover camshaft plunger is shower some wear. The X is still visible and I would assume it's still good. Your thoughts? Also spring feels stiff. I believe it to be good.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk
Garagekulture13 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-28-2018, 03:49 PM   #56
George Miller
Senior Member
 
George Miller's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: NC
Posts: 2,844
Default Re: Chasing the knock.

That is probably a gear from the 70ts. They were off a bout a 1/2 tooth. Good thing you went all the way and found it. It will have more power now.
George Miller is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-28-2018, 03:54 PM   #57
George Miller
Senior Member
 
George Miller's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: NC
Posts: 2,844
Default Re: Chasing the knock.

I also hope you are going with a good cam gear. bronze is the best, alum gear next, then laminated next, macerated is junk in my book.
George Miller is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-28-2018, 04:26 PM   #58
Garagekulture13
Senior Member
 
Garagekulture13's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Tennessee
Posts: 110
Default Re: Chasing the knock.

Ok. New gears and still have crazy backlash. So what is this telling me? I see hundreds of post about backlash but have yet to see one say what it means if you have a lot.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk
Garagekulture13 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-28-2018, 04:38 PM   #59
Patrick L.
Senior Member
 
Patrick L.'s Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Upstate NY and western Florida
Posts: 4,643
Default Re: Chasing the knock.

Your latest picture doesn't show gear backlash. It appears to me to show crankshaft endplay. 2 different animals.

Gear back lash is checked by inserting feeler gauges between the crank gear and cam gear teeth. As mentioned before it should be in the .004-.007" range. If a .010" strip will slide thru, you still have too much lash.
Patrick L. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-28-2018, 04:57 PM   #60
Garagekulture13
Senior Member
 
Garagekulture13's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Tennessee
Posts: 110
Default Re: Chasing the knock.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick L. View Post
Your latest picture doesn't show gear backlash. It appears to me to show crankshaft endplay. 2 different animals.

Gear back lash is checked by inserting feeler gauges between the crank gear and cam gear teeth. As mentioned before it should be in the .004-.007" range. If a .010" strip will slide thru, you still have too much lash.
Thanks for clearing that up. I understand now. The gear in the picture is the camshaft.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk
Garagekulture13 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:13 PM.