Installing a 6 volt electric fan on A model

[redbelly52]

Hi,
I am thinking of installing a 6 volt electric fan on my 1930 Model A that has overheating issues when at idle and in hot weather.
Does anyone have opinions/advice on this?
Any opinions on push or pull installation?
I've read that a 6 volt alternator might be needed, and that the original fan blade could be removed all together.
My radiator is very clean, almost no pushes in the vanes, and I have just rebuilt my water pump. I use distilled water and anti-freeze, 50/50 mixture. The car does not have a thermostat in it. Car runs fine otherwise.
Thanks,
Bob

[Mitch//pa]

I would find the cause of why it's overheating.. How do you know the radiator has 100% flow? Maybe a combustion issue getting into the cooling system.. Are you sure an electric fan will compensate enough ? That would not be the route I would take...

The aesthetics of a fan pushing would be a rough site IMO

[Tom Wesenberg]

X2 what Mitch said.

Does the radiator loose coolant and then get hot, or does it get hot and boil out the coolant?

Determine the cause of the heat, and fix the problem. Almost all overheat problems come down to a plugged radiator or bad timing (late).

An infrared heat gun is a handy tool.

[denis4x4]

First off, are 6V electric fans even available? I have electric fans on several old cars and I can't see how you could even fit one on a A. I'm with Mitch and Tom on this one.

[redbelly52]

Tom and Mitch,
I've had the radiator off and flushed it with a water hose. It appears to flush the water as quickly as it goes in. No crud at all that I can see. It has not been rodded while I have owned it, but appears to be a fairly new radiator.
I have not checked the timing in a while.
The engine has low compression in all cylinders, so I assumed it has been well used, but still runs good and pulls up hills OK in 3rd.
Overheating is only noticed on hot days and while idling in parades and stuff.
I have not yet checked the actual temperatures with an IR thermometer, but will do so. I was just going by the aftermarket temp gauge I installed after I bought the car, and by feeling the water hoses. Hotter than I think they should be.
Concerning the water pump. I noticed that there was some rubbing in the past on the engine block where the end of the water pump goes in. It is not flat, but shows signs of impeller/rod rubbing. Could this cause overheating? What should the distance from the impeller end and the block be? It would seem to me that it should be close, but no rub. I made sure it was not rubbing when I installed the water pump.
As far as water coming out of the radiator overflow, it does. I do not know when, before heating up, or after. I have not yet let the car idle until temperature rises and watched that.
Thanks,
Bob

[jhowes]

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The model a cooling system is a very efficient system. Follow tom's advice and find the problem. Band aid fixes will haunt you in the end

[Mitch//pa]

Bob,
U can also use your hand to feel for cooler and hotter areas on the radiator core.
It should be uniform horizontally and cooler as you go vertically. The ray gun is pretty handy. My bet is your rad is restricted..... Watching the flow come out on a flush does not show squat. The waterpump should not rub inside the head so a quick grind of the impeller shaft end will take care of that.. Your overheating issue is not caused from the slight rub

[barkleydave]

I stand with the gang on this one. I have MGA which had same problem P.O. put in fancy fan. Looked like crap... did nothing. Problem solved when I found a correct re cored radiator.

Now on a hot day at parade speeds your A will run hotter! That is a good reason to avoid long parades on a hot day!

Fellow went to the Dr. and said it hurts when I move my arm like this.... Dr. replied no problem do not move like that anymore.. Pay your bill on the way out!

[JohnLaVoy]

It is important to fix the problem. You can get a test kit from a local parts house that will tell you if you are getting exhaust gas into the water. You may have a crack or leaking head gasket.

But to answer the other question they do make a 6 volt fan. We wrote them up a couple of years ago.

[Charlie Stephens]

After you install the electric fan you will need to upgrade the generator or install an alternator (which I hate the look of) to keep up with the extra current required. You need to keep the belt tight to keep up with the increased load. The water pump bearing will fail due to the increased load unless you are careful. How about just fixing the real problem? There a lot of Model A's out there without electric fans and they don't have a problem.

Charlie Stephens

[C26Pinelake]

I agree that it looks like crap and does nothing to cure the original problem. Maybe seek some help from another club member of Model. Person that is possibly a little more knowledgable. Wayne

[hangarb7]

Sorry to repeat this as I've said it several times over the last couple of years; my overheating problem was ME!

I had a radiator that was running about 22gph; after cleaning by a rad shop, had a flow of 30gph. Also, when they dipped it, the OUTSIDE fins were cleaned also, so it was more efficient.

Second, the fan belt was sloppy, so I tightened it to be about 1/2". There were signs on the belt where it was slipping in the pulleys.

Third, my timing was all wrong. Your comment about rarely checking your timing is very telltale.

Fourth, I never fixed this, but there is the baffle plate missing in the top of my radiator. Some rads have a short tube or it may even be pointing in the wrong direction (not sure why on any of those), but all of those can allow coolant to wash overboard. Oh, and another thing, if your rad is too full, it will flow over also.

My car runs Pennyslvania corn crap gas and it regularly gets into the high 80's on parade days, but haven't overheated in several years.

The fan might fix a heat issue, but it won't solve the overheating problem. The guy I bought my car from has driven his model A twice through Death Valley.

JackD

[Jacksonlll]

Red, if you can drive that car 45 mph for a solid 10 min. without overheating, the rad is good. I bet you can't. If you can't, it will be worse with the electric set-up you might come up with. No one else needs a fan like that. jack

[CarlG]

At 45mph, you don't need any kind of fan.

[Tony S,Fl.]

How much water does a 28 29 radiator hold and a 30 31 . Say a radiator holds 6 quarts of water just guessing, with the bottom hole plugged you pull the plug and it empties in say 4 seconds fine. But if it only takes 4 quarts and empties in 4 seconds what is gained. You need to know how much a radiator holds to try the flow test. Tony

[Henry1953]

i agree with most of the others. Find the cause of the over heating and you won't need the fan. That is just treating the symptom and not the cause. I was having a problem with over heating in my 30 Coupe. I cleaned out all of the water passages in the engine with the vinegar treatment. I removed the head after thoroughly flushing the engine. I used bottle brushes and scrubbed all loose remaining rust and crud from the passages in the head and block. It didn't look bad but I was surprised how much loose rust flakes I got out. I installed my new heavy duty radiator from Brassworks and my rebuilt leakless water pump. I also added a thermostat. The engine now runs no hotter than 170. It was pushing 200.

[29spcoupe]

The coolant flow is not the only thing to measure. Sometimes the radiator fins lose the ability to dissipate the heat. The contact between the fins and the tubes could be bad. If the timing and mixture is correct, and the water flow is good, the problem is likely the radiator. John

[redbelly52]

My thanks to all of those who posted.
I will check those things that were suggested.
Regarding the timing, what would be a good point to set it at for the overheating? I know what the book says for initial timing set, but what do you experts think?
Someone mentioned head gasket leaking into the water flow ports. Would oil show up in the water, and/or water show up in the oil? I did a compression check and all cylinders were close to each other, but low in the compression range. (40 lbs)
First order of business is to use an IR thermometer on the radiator and see if there are hot spots.
Thanks for everyone's input,
Bob

[Mitch//pa]

Hi Bob,

coolant would show in the oil but it does not always happen. combustion gases should be able to be detected in the cooling system with a test kit....
this is the best tutorial going on timing its from marcos site...
http://www.abarnyard.com/workshop/timing.htm

[BILL WILLIAMSON]

Take this for whatever it's worth, but it's TRUE. A friend bought a '30 Tudor, with a 302 Chev. in it, just before his friend died, nice car! It had ONLY a decent looking electric fan on it, NO MOTOR DRIVEN FAN,------"Did it run cool"?--------"Yes, he drove it EVERYWHERE, even LONG distances"!---"And guess what? After I had it for awhile, I discovered he hooked the fan wires ass-backwards & it was runnin' ASS-BACKWARDS"!!! It had a Walker, 10 fin per inch, pressurized radiator, with a coolant recovery tank.
Minerva had a Walker 10 fin per inch non-pressurized radiator & on a 112 degree day, I did 39 miles around town doing errands & she NEVER ran HOT, & DIDN'T pee in my carriage house when I came in!
Bill W.