The Ford Barn

Survivorman · 08-08-2017, 05:06 PM

I had water in my oil. Suspected blown head gasket. Took off head with help from this forum (a three-week ordeal). Found head was cracked and warped, although the gasket was intact. Left all the studs in place. I decided to put on a replacement head I already had ready to go. It has "A 6050" embossed on it so I figure its a Ford produced post-1931 replacement head. I used a Bratton's modern silicone head gasket. Torqued it to 55 and found that most of the nuts still have a couple threads showing. Measured the head and found it's 1/16th " thicker than the head I removed. Haven't put in coolant or run it yet. I figure retorquing will compress the gasket some, and maybe I'm OK, but before I run it I thought I ask folks' opinions. My previous head is being repaired, and I could reinstall that one.

noboD · 08-08-2017, 05:27 PM

You could spot face the head at the studs 1/16 that are short, but that's a permanent fix.

1930artdeco · 08-08-2017, 05:37 PM

As long as the head is perfectly flat, fill her up and go. You should have a few threads showing after torquing the head down. The new head may be thicker due to the fact the other head was killed down.

Mike

art ebeling · 08-08-2017, 06:49 PM

I think the original poster means the head nuts have a couple threads left, not a couple threads showing above the nuts on the stud. I would retorque a couple of times after letting it warm up and cool down. The nuts will probably go another thread or two. The best advice would be to use new studs and nuts.

1930artdeco · 08-08-2017, 10:56 PM

Oops, sorry I did not catch that. The studs I have read here don't need to be screwed all the way down. Maybe screw down and then back offa thread or two?

Mike

H. L. Chauvin · 08-08-2017, 11:26 PM

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Hi Survivor,

In my humble opinion, as a survivor, here is the first half of your Survival Kit:

1. How level and flat is your replacement head that you just installed; and the second half:

2. How flat was the top face of your block before you installed the replacement head?

Again as an experienced survivor, your chances of your dried survival food going to rot are very dependent on these two (2) survival factors.

wensum · 08-09-2017, 04:10 PM

I had a similar situation with a Winfield head. I bought a set of high tensile head studs, but only the one intended for the theft proof cable was long enough. All the others were a couple of threads too short. I enquired whether it was possible to purchase a set of the longer studs and as it was not possible, had another set machined up from scratch.
Interestingly, these fitted more accurately and the head slipped on effortlessly.
Rightly or wrongly I torqued the head to 65 ft/lbs and have had no problems after 18 months of sometimes testing driving

Survivorman · 08-10-2017, 01:33 PM

Thanks everyone for your advice. My main question is, do I dare run it as-is? (Further re-torquing will probably draw down the nuts a bit more.) Or, take the head back off and either (a) put my old head back on, once repaired and surfaced, or (b) remove the studs and replace them, something I don't really want to tackle right now. The replacement head I just put on is resurfaced and crack-free (but thicker). This is an original, unrestored '29 CCPU I only drive locally.

JD 1931 · 08-10-2017, 01:53 PM

Some don't like the modern gasket but I have had good luck with it. Stopped small leaks and just follow directions.....

CarlG · 08-10-2017, 02:17 PM

You can get longer studs from ARP if that is the problem.

Also, when installing the studs, make sure you don't screw them in too far. I have used a scale to make sure they are all at the same height off the block.

Chuck Sea/Tac · 08-10-2017, 03:08 PM

What is your exact concern? Looks---- nut will strip--- ??) I can't see why it would hurt to just continue torquing until it stays put. It takes 3-5 torquings to compress and hold. Follow the instructions :very important.

H. L. Chauvin · 08-10-2017, 11:05 PM

Hi survivor,

Per your comments in your Reply No.8:

1. "The replacement head I just put on is resurfaced and crack-free (but thicker)"; and,

2. "My main question is, do I dare run it as-is?"

Why not? What can you lose?

I installed a silicone gasket from Bratton's on my Model A engine with a re-installed "flat" high compression Police Head on a "flat" top of block surface.

Even though not recommended, I applied Permatex No. 2 on both sides of this head gasket and torqued it cold to 55 ft. lbs.

Drove it about 20 miles and the next day, with engine cold, tried re-torquing but when I got up to 55 ft. lbs., nut did not turn; hence did not re-torque.

No leaks in 10 years.

Survivorman · 08-10-2017, 11:27 PM

Thanks, everyone. I'll crank it up and see.

H. L. Chauvin · 08-11-2017, 10:14 AM

Hi Survivor,

In your statement from #8 above:

"This is an original, unrestored '29 CCPU I only drive locally."

Please let us know if your head & head gasket "survived".

In my humble opinion, life is full of mysterious challenges for all of us as "survivors".

And, if we never try things that have never been tried before .... we never lived our lives to the fullest.

If everything went well, we would all be happy to hear such wonderful news.

08-08-2017, 05:06 PM	#1
Survivorman Junior Member Join Date: Jul 2017 Location: Sebastopol, California Posts: 10	Replacement Cylinder Head Problem I had water in my oil. Suspected blown head gasket. Took off head with help from this forum (a three-week ordeal). Found head was cracked and warped, although the gasket was intact. Left all the studs in place. I decided to put on a replacement head I already had ready to go. It has "A 6050" embossed on it so I figure its a Ford produced post-1931 replacement head. I used a Bratton's modern silicone head gasket. Torqued it to 55 and found that most of the nuts still have a couple threads showing. Measured the head and found it's 1/16th " thicker than the head I removed. Haven't put in coolant or run it yet. I figure retorquing will compress the gasket some, and maybe I'm OK, but before I run it I thought I ask folks' opinions. My previous head is being repaired, and I could reinstall that one.

08-08-2017, 05:27 PM	#2
noboD Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 319	Re: Replacement Cylinder Head Problem You could spot face the head at the studs 1/16 that are short, but that's a permanent fix.

08-08-2017, 05:37 PM	#3
1930artdeco Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Lynden, Wa Posts: 3,550	Re: Replacement Cylinder Head Problem As long as the head is perfectly flat, fill her up and go. You should have a few threads showing after torquing the head down. The new head may be thicker due to the fact the other head was killed down. Mike __________________ 1930 TownSedan (Briggs) 1957 Country Sedan

08-08-2017, 06:49 PM	#4
art ebeling Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2014 Location: Hillsboro IL Posts: 480	Re: Replacement Cylinder Head Problem I think the original poster means the head nuts have a couple threads left, not a couple threads showing above the nuts on the stud. I would retorque a couple of times after letting it warm up and cool down. The nuts will probably go another thread or two. The best advice would be to use new studs and nuts.

08-08-2017, 10:56 PM	#5
1930artdeco Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Lynden, Wa Posts: 3,550	Re: Replacement Cylinder Head Problem Oops, sorry I did not catch that. The studs I have read here don't need to be screwed all the way down. Maybe screw down and then back offa thread or two? Mike __________________ 1930 TownSedan (Briggs) 1957 Country Sedan

08-08-2017, 11:26 PM	#6
H. L. Chauvin Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 4,179	Re: Replacement Cylinder Head Problem Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) Hi Survivor, In my humble opinion, as a survivor, here is the first half of your Survival Kit: 1. How level and flat is your replacement head that you just installed; and the second half: 2. How flat was the top face of your block before you installed the replacement head? Again as an experienced survivor, your chances of your dried survival food going to rot are very dependent on these two (2) survival factors.

08-09-2017, 04:10 PM	#7
wensum Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: New Zealand Posts: 444	Re: Replacement Cylinder Head Problem I had a similar situation with a Winfield head. I bought a set of high tensile head studs, but only the one intended for the theft proof cable was long enough. All the others were a couple of threads too short. I enquired whether it was possible to purchase a set of the longer studs and as it was not possible, had another set machined up from scratch. Interestingly, these fitted more accurately and the head slipped on effortlessly. Rightly or wrongly I torqued the head to 65 ft/lbs and have had no problems after 18 months of sometimes testing driving

08-10-2017, 01:33 PM	#8
Survivorman Junior Member Join Date: Jul 2017 Location: Sebastopol, California Posts: 10	Re: Replacement Cylinder Head Problem Thanks everyone for your advice. My main question is, do I dare run it as-is? (Further re-torquing will probably draw down the nuts a bit more.) Or, take the head back off and either (a) put my old head back on, once repaired and surfaced, or (b) remove the studs and replace them, something I don't really want to tackle right now. The replacement head I just put on is resurfaced and crack-free (but thicker). This is an original, unrestored '29 CCPU I only drive locally.

08-10-2017, 01:53 PM	#9
JD 1931 Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: west coast Fla.. Posts: 311	Re: Replacement Cylinder Head Problem Some don't like the modern gasket but I have had good luck with it. Stopped small leaks and just follow directions.....

08-10-2017, 02:17 PM	#10
CarlG Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Anchorage, Alaska Posts: 9,115	Re: Replacement Cylinder Head Problem You can get longer studs from ARP if that is the problem. Also, when installing the studs, make sure you don't screw them in too far. I have used a scale to make sure they are all at the same height off the block. __________________ Alaskan A's Antique Auto Mushers of Alaska Model A Ford Club of America Model A Restorers Club Antique Automobile Club of America Mullins Owner's Club

08-10-2017, 03:08 PM	#11
Chuck Sea/Tac Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Between Seattle & Tacoma Posts: 2,354	Re: Replacement Cylinder Head Problem What is your exact concern? Looks---- nut will strip--- ??) I can't see why it would hurt to just continue torquing until it stays put. It takes 3-5 torquings to compress and hold. Follow the instructions :very important.

08-10-2017, 11:05 PM	#12
H. L. Chauvin Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 4,179	Re: Replacement Cylinder Head Problem Hi survivor, Per your comments in your Reply No.8: 1. "The replacement head I just put on is resurfaced and crack-free (but thicker)"; and, 2. "My main question is, do I dare run it as-is?" Why not? What can you lose? I installed a silicone gasket from Bratton's on my Model A engine with a re-installed "flat" high compression Police Head on a "flat" top of block surface. Even though not recommended, I applied Permatex No. 2 on both sides of this head gasket and torqued it cold to 55 ft. lbs. Drove it about 20 miles and the next day, with engine cold, tried re-torquing but when I got up to 55 ft. lbs., nut did not turn; hence did not re-torque. No leaks in 10 years.

08-10-2017, 11:27 PM	#13
Survivorman Junior Member Join Date: Jul 2017 Location: Sebastopol, California Posts: 10	Re: Replacement Cylinder Head Problem Thanks, everyone. I'll crank it up and see.

08-11-2017, 10:14 AM	#14
H. L. Chauvin Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 4,179	Re: Replacement Cylinder Head Problem Hi Survivor, In your statement from #8 above: "This is an original, unrestored '29 CCPU I only drive locally." Please let us know if your head & head gasket "survived". In my humble opinion, life is full of mysterious challenges for all of us as "survivors". And, if we never try things that have never been tried before .... we never lived our lives to the fullest. If everything went well, we would all be happy to hear such wonderful news.