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Old 07-18-2018, 03:59 AM   #1
mercman from oz
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Default 1940 Ford Deluxe Tail Lights


Take a look at the above picture, and see if you can see something odd on this restored 1940 Ford Deluxe Fordor Sedan?
Give in?
If you look closely, you will see that the Right tail Light is mounted higher than the one on the left?
Some years ago, a friend from down south in Victoria told me that the Tail Lights on his 1940 Ford Deluxe Sloper were not positioned at the same height.
As 1940 Fords are thin in the ground in Australia, I was unable to confirm his findings, however, the owner of this lovely Fordor Sedan recently joined our local Early Ford V8 Club. I asked him to measure the position of the Tail Lights on his car. This was his reply:- I have measured the distance from the centre of the bottom tail light screw to the trailing edge of the mudguard in each case.
The left is 29cm and the right is 32cm! In Imperial language, that equated to just over one Inch. Is this anomaly unique to Australian assembled 1940 Ford Deluxe vehicles, or does it extend to USA models also?
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Old 07-18-2018, 05:18 AM   #2
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Default Re: 1940 Ford Deluxe Tail Lights

At least now, for those who have seen this, we will probably be inspecting all '40 Fords that we see.
Without knowing the full history of this vehicle it's hard to attribute this anomaly to the factory. But if others are found, it would be interesting to know why.
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Old 07-18-2018, 05:30 AM   #3
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Default Re: 1940 Ford Deluxe Tail Lights


How about this 1940 Ford deluxe Sloper? I don't have a better shot of this car, but if you look, the right hand Tail light appears to be positioned higher than the left hand Tail light? This feature is not just a "one off".
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Old 07-18-2018, 06:25 AM   #4
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Default Re: 1940 Ford Deluxe Tail Lights

It may appear that way but I would not give much weight to a picture that can exhibit distortion.
For example-----

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Old 07-18-2018, 07:14 AM   #5
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Default Re: 1940 Ford Deluxe Tail Lights

Quote:
Originally Posted by mercman from oz View Post
This feature is not just a "one off".
Maybe yes, maybe no, but I would not come to that conclusion based on a distorted picture.
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Old 07-18-2018, 07:18 AM   #6
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Default Re: 1940 Ford Deluxe Tail Lights

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Like 51Merc suggested, I ran for my tape measure. I bet a cloth tape
would be more accurate.
On my early production 40 coupe both are the same.
12 1/4 in. from center of screw to lower edge of fender.
Right rear fender came out of a junk yard after an accident in the 60's..
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File Type: jpg DSC00806 (Medium)best.jpg (71.5 KB, 55 views)

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Old 07-18-2018, 07:55 AM   #7
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Default Re: 1940 Ford Deluxe Tail Lights

look under left side fender and see if someone modified a 39 fender for the chevron taillight. 39 lights are lower, aren't they?
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Old 07-18-2018, 07:55 AM   #8
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Default Re: 1940 Ford Deluxe Tail Lights

My guess is the right lamp was added "later in life". Even factory "seconds" as some call them, would not have had that anomaly.

I'd like to see a photograph from beneath each fender, depicting the bucket area.
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Old 07-18-2018, 07:58 AM   #9
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Default Re: 1940 Ford Deluxe Tail Lights

Quote:
Originally Posted by 19Fordy View Post
Like 51Merc suggested, I ran for my tape measure. I bet a cloth tape
would be more accurate.
On my early production 40 coupe both are the same.
12 1/4 in. from center of screw to lower edge of fender.
Right rear fender came out of a junk yard after an accident in the 60's..
Very interesting.
Based on the dim's given for the subject lights, it appears that the left light is too low.
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Old 07-18-2018, 09:46 AM   #10
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Default Re: 1940 Ford Deluxe Tail Lights

Like Kube, I suspect someone added a tail light bucket to a V8 ("std") fender and just didn't do a great job. I just measured a NOS pair and they were identical. Down Under maybe the same guy did the work!
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Old 07-18-2018, 12:47 PM   #11
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Default Re: 1940 Ford Deluxe Tail Lights

take a picture of underside/taillight area for us experts
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Old 07-18-2018, 01:44 PM   #12
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Default Re: 1940 Ford Deluxe Tail Lights

Having spent many years as a tool maker, I can assure you that although parts can be produced poorly at times from otherwise great dies the improper location of that tail lamp hole would NOT happen within a die. It couldn't. Um, not without one HUGE crash. And if that happened, there would be no more fenders from that die.
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Old 07-18-2018, 07:37 PM   #13
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Default Re: 1940 Ford Deluxe Tail Lights

Just went out and measured my '40 Deluxe 2 door. It's also 12 1/4" from lower lip to bottom screw, both sides.
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Old 07-19-2018, 01:33 AM   #14
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Default Re: 1940 Ford Deluxe Tail Lights


Above is another picture of the rear of this Australian 1940 Ford Deluxe Sloper. You can see from this angle that the right Tail Light is mounted higher than the left one?
It seems that this anomaly is unique to Australian assembled 1940 ford Deluxe Sedans and Slopers.
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Old 07-19-2018, 01:40 AM   #15
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Default Re: 1940 Ford Deluxe Tail Lights


Another anomaly with Australian 1940 Ford Deluxe Sedans and Slopers is that the early production models came from the Factory fitted with 1939 Ford Teardrop tail Lights, as per this example. Everything else is correct for 1940 except for the Tail Lights.
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Old 07-19-2018, 01:56 AM   #16
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Default Re: 1940 Ford Deluxe Tail Lights




You asked for it. The above pictures show these Tail Lights from the underside. Top picture is the one on the left, the bottom picture shows the one on the right. Does this help?
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Old 07-19-2018, 07:41 AM   #17
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Default Re: 1940 Ford Deluxe Tail Lights

Mike,


But, if the dies for the right and left hand fenders were different to start with there would be no crash and no wrecked dies.


The various states of Australia had some pretty unique rear lighting requirements as there evidently was no national standard (at that time). An Australian or Canadian export chassis parts catalogue of the period makes for interesting and enlightening reading in that regard. It may just be that one of the states had different lamp height requirements, side to side, but only someone with a 1940 model version of that catalogue could confirm that.
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Old 07-19-2018, 07:48 AM   #18
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Default Re: 1940 Ford Deluxe Tail Lights

Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidG View Post
Mike,


But, if the dies for the right and left hand fenders were different to start with there would be no crash and no wrecked dies.


The various states of Australia had some pretty unique rear lighting requirements as there evidently was no national standard (at that time). An Australian or Canadian export chassis parts catalogue of the period makes for interesting and enlightening reading in that regard. It may just be that one of the states had different lamp height requirements, side to side, but only someone with a 1940 model version of that catalogue could confirm that.
This is true. And, I had not considered that possibility.
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Old 07-19-2018, 09:28 AM   #19
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Default Re: 1940 Ford Deluxe Tail Lights

Another possibility, is that for some reason Dearborn supplied "standard" RH rear fenders and Australia had to "field install", then simply set up the fixtures with a different height from the LH. This would account for the consistent height and mismatch.


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Old 07-19-2018, 05:08 PM   #20
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Default Re: 1940 Ford Deluxe Tail Lights


The above photo shows a pair of 1940 Ford deluxe Fenders for sale in Australia. You can see that the opening for the Tail Lights are different heights? This anomaly is not just an isolated case.
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Old 07-19-2018, 06:11 PM   #21
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Default Re: 1940 Ford Deluxe Tail Lights

Theory: the guy responsible for locating the hole had too many 'Toohey's'.
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Old 07-19-2018, 09:03 PM   #22
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Default Re: 1940 Ford Deluxe Tail Lights

Karl,


With respect, Dearborn supplied no fenders to Ford of Australia. There were either stamped locally or came from Ford of Canada (the parent company to Ford of Australia at that time).
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Old 07-20-2018, 12:18 AM   #23
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Default Re: 1940 Ford Deluxe Tail Lights


Here is another shot of the rear of this Australian 1940 Ford Deluxe with the uneven positioning of the Tail Lights. I have always suspected that this issue was unique to Australian built 1940 Fords. Next question, what is the correct positing of these Tail Lights. On this car, they are located 29 CM and 32 CM from the bottom edge. In Imperial measurement, that equates roughly to 11.5 ins and 12.5 ins. Question:- which side is correct in relation to USA models?
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Old 07-20-2018, 04:45 AM   #24
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Default Re: 1940 Ford Deluxe Tail Lights

Quote:
Originally Posted by mercman from oz View Post
In Imperial measurement, that equates roughly to 11.5 ins and 12.5 ins. Question:- which side is correct in relation to USA models?
If you read my post #9 and the two posts by others indicating their measurements of USA light locations, the most likely answer is that the left light is too low.
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Old 07-20-2018, 05:36 AM   #25
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Default Re: 1940 Ford Deluxe Tail Lights

51 MERC-CT, Thanks for the clarification. The fact that the Left Tail Light is too low, is very unusual, as in LHD cars, the left fender had the Tail Light. Had Ford of Canada sent Fenders to Australia, it would only be the right fenders that could have been blank? All very strange.
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Old 07-20-2018, 06:05 AM   #26
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Default Re: 1940 Ford Deluxe Tail Lights

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Quote:
Originally Posted by mercman from oz View Post
51 MERC-CT, Thanks for the clarification. The fact that the Left Tail Light is too low, is very unusual, as in LHD cars, the left fender had the Tail Light. Had Ford of Canada sent Fenders to Australia, it would only be the right fenders that could have been blank? All very strange.
Yes, indeed, very strange.
At least from now on I can probably be seen poking around the rear ends of all '40 Fords that I see. (checking tail light dimensions )
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Old 07-20-2018, 06:55 AM   #27
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Default Re: 1940 Ford Deluxe Tail Lights

THAT is very interesting.
Wonder if two different companies were punching out those holes?
Doesn't make sense. Strange.
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Old 07-20-2018, 09:24 AM   #28
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Default Re: 1940 Ford Deluxe Tail Lights

Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidG View Post
Karl,


With respect, Dearborn supplied no fenders to Ford of Australia. There were either stamped locally or came from Ford of Canada (the parent company to Ford of Australia at that time).

Thanks for the clarification.


Karl
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Old 07-20-2018, 01:59 PM   #29
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Default Re: 1940 Ford Deluxe Tail Lights

Trevor,


Not necessarily, as Ford of Canada had both LHD and RHD exports of built-up vehicles (although primarily the latter) so it would have been manufacturing both rear fenders with and without an opening for the tail lamp.


As for a solution to the mystery, it may never be ascertained as there was the additional complication of Ford of Canada winding down passenger production and ramping up military vehicle production given Canada's entry into WWII in late 1939.

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Old 07-21-2018, 04:14 AM   #30
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Default Re: 1940 Ford Deluxe Tail Lights

I remember an old mate of mine who had 3 40 sedans over his life time told me that his cars were all like this trevor , maybe one day I will get that 40 sloper I lust after and I don't care were the dam lights are as long as they are the ever so cool 40 taillamps
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Old 07-22-2018, 09:07 PM   #31
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Default Re: 1940 Ford Deluxe Tail Lights

This reply is from the owner of a 1940 Ford Deluxe Sloper in New South Wales. Proof that is not just an isolated case.

The Forty taillights are different, the passenger side is at 29cm and the driver side at 31.5cm or for us older people passenger side 11&7/16” driver side 12&7/16”
A whole 1” difference!
I believe when there is just a driver and no passenger they look level (haha)
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Old 07-23-2018, 04:45 AM   #32
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Default Re: 1940 Ford Deluxe Tail Lights

My right hand drive 40 coupe also has different height tail lights.


11 7/8" on the left side and 12 5/8" on the right.
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Old 07-23-2018, 05:00 AM   #33
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Default Re: 1940 Ford Deluxe Tail Lights


47MERC, thanks for your comment. That makes this subject very interesting, as Ford Australia never offered a Coupe.
11 7/8" on the left side and 12 5/8" on the right. Thanks for posting.
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Old 07-23-2018, 04:49 PM   #34
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Default Re: 1940 Ford Deluxe Tail Lights


Reading the various comments, originally, I thought that this may have been limited to Australian 1940 Fords. That is why I asked friends in the USA to measure their All American 1940 Ford Deluxe Tudor Sedan. The above picture shows the car that they measured and came up with the right hand Tail Light being 5/8 inch higher than the left hand Tail Light. This is an original unmolested 1940 Ford Deluxe Tudor.
Can other owners of 1940 Ford Deluxe Sedans go and measure their car, as it would appear that this anomaly is not restricted to Australian cars.
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Old 07-24-2018, 05:21 PM   #35
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Default Re: 1940 Ford Deluxe Tail Lights

I've been restoring a 1940 standard. It came with a single tail light, and wanting a bit more safety, I opted to replace the original lightless passenger side rear fender with one with a tail light. I've been following this thread for a while, and it occurred to me that I might have the same 'problem'. Sure enough, the bottom edge of the left tail light is 11 inches above the bottom edge of the fender, and the right is a bit more than 12 inches above. Because the passenger fender doesn't belong to the car, it isn't quite the same issue, but clearly some of the fenders out there deviate from the norm. This is a Canadian car (in Canada), and likely the fender is too. Could have been a 'Commonwealth' thing?
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Old 07-24-2018, 10:09 PM   #36
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Default Re: 1940 Ford Deluxe Tail Lights


Gordon has supplied this picture of his 1940 Ford Deluxe Sloper. He made the following comments:- The Forty taillights are different, the passenger side is at 29cm and the driver side at 31.5cm or for us older people passenger side 11&7/16” driver side 12&7/16” A whole 1” difference!
I believe when there is just a driver and no passenger they look level (haha)
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Old 07-25-2018, 12:47 PM   #37
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Default Re: 1940 Ford Deluxe Tail Lights

I've been restoring a 1940 standard coupe, and found a passenger side rear fender with light to replace the lightless rear fender it came with. I have the same issue now - the bottom of the light is 11 inches above the bottom of the fender on the left, and a little more than 12 inches on the right. Admittedly this isn't exactly equivalent, since the fender didn't come with the car, but there are clearly some deviant rear passenger fenders out there. Given that the reports in this thread come from Australia, it might be relevant to point out that mine is a Canadian car, as is likely the fender (since this is where I live, and purchased the fender). Is it possible that this design quirk has something to do with production in the commonwealth countries?
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Old 07-25-2018, 01:30 PM   #38
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Default Re: 1940 Ford Deluxe Tail Lights

Apologies for the duplicate post. I wrote the first one yesterday, but when it didn't show up, I assumed that I had messed up the submission. I hadn't noticed that the thread had wrapped around onto the second page.
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Old 07-27-2018, 09:27 AM   #39
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Default Re: 1940 Ford Deluxe Tail Lights

I just measured my '40, from the bottom of the fender to the bottom of the taillight and it's exactly 12" on both sides.
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Old 07-27-2018, 02:00 PM   #40
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Default Re: 1940 Ford Deluxe Tail Lights

Some different heights, some the same. Too many cars with the "error", so the error must not have been caught right away, or the vendor supplied the fenders with the error, it was caught, but the fenders were needed and used anyway (not unusual for HF, I'd wager). It would be interesting to see when the cars with the original fenders were produced.

In any event, since this site & the EFV8 Club is all about keeping or restoring cars to their original state, as produced, I suggest leaving the "error" alone and just explain it to every person who wishes to criticize the car. Judging should accept either taillight placement.

What will probably happen, is that everyone with the "error" fenders, will fix them and that little part of Ford history will be lost forever.

Just my 2¢
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Old 07-27-2018, 02:42 PM   #41
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Default Re: 1940 Ford Deluxe Tail Lights

For what it's worth my car has the late ash trays and late wiper motor bracket also.
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Old 07-27-2018, 07:21 PM   #42
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Default Re: 1940 Ford Deluxe Tail Lights

Kiwis and Aussies are always taking the piss out of each other and we'd say Australians have a "chip on their shoulder"( making them unbalanced)...looks like their 40 Fords do too ..or should I say a "chip on their fender"

This is an interesting thread. Although NZ cars were Canadian sourced we never got the 40 here as we had already turned to war production so we cant comment from a NZ perspective.

Just noticed the 39 deluxe overiders on the Aussie cars too.

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Old 08-25-2018, 11:33 PM   #43
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Default Re: 1940 Ford Deluxe Tail Lights


Here is another example of a 1940 Ford Deluxe with the uneven Tail Lights. This problem is not just an isolated case as you can from the many examples shown above.
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Old 08-26-2018, 09:04 AM   #44
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Default Re: 1940 Ford Deluxe Tail Lights

Quote:
Originally Posted by Graeme / New Zealand View Post

Just noticed the 39 deluxe overiders on the Aussie cars too.

GB

OK, for us dummies up here in The States, what is an "overider", or "overrider"? DD
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Old 08-26-2018, 09:09 AM   #45
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Default Re: 1940 Ford Deluxe Tail Lights

I think it's a bumper guard here in the states.
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Old 08-27-2018, 01:46 AM   #46
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Default Re: 1940 Ford Deluxe Tail Lights

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All Australian assembled 1940 Fords got the carry-over 1939 Over Riders / Bumper Guards, as you can see from the Cover of the original Australian Sales Brochure
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Old 09-10-2018, 05:52 AM   #47
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Default Re: 1940 Ford Deluxe Tail Lights


A friend is working on this 1940 Ford Deluxe Sloper that has had a very hard neglected life. It is not in the best shape as you can see, but the owner reckons that he will fix it up. I asked him to measure the positioning of the Tail Lights. As was the case with previous 1940 Ford Deluxe models in this Thread that we have measured, the Right hand Tail Light is higher than the Left Tail Light.
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Old 10-01-2018, 12:44 AM   #48
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Default Re: 1940 Ford Deluxe Tail Lights


Screen shot of the mismatched Australian 1940 Ford Deluxe Tail Lights.
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Old 10-01-2018, 12:29 PM   #49
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Default Re: 1940 Ford Deluxe Tail Lights

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Originally Posted by mercman from oz View Post

A friend is working on this 1940 Ford Deluxe Sloper that has had a very hard neglected life. It is not in the best shape as you can see, but the owner reckons that he will fix it up. I asked him to measure the positioning of the Tail Lights. As was the case with previous 1940 Ford Deluxe models in this Thread that we have measured, the Right hand Tail Light is higher than the Left Tail Light.
As with the Sloper in post 15, this one has the decklid badge below the handle, although it appears that this particular one may also have had one in the normal location above the license plate. Something else to watch for on the 40's from Down Under!
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Old 01-07-2019, 10:44 PM   #50
mercman from oz
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Default Re: 1940 Ford Deluxe Tail Lights

After reading all the replies to this Thread, it seems that the Tail Light mounted on the Right Side in the higher position is the correct height, the same as the 1940 Fords in the USA. The one on the Left Side that sits lower is the incorrect one. That could mean that Ford Australia imported all Standard Passenger Side Rear Fenders for their 1940 Fords, and added the extra Tail Lights for the Deluxe models locally. Unfortunately, I don't think that we will find a definite answer to this question. The people who worked on these cars when new are no longer with us. So, the higher mounted Tail Light on these RHD 1940 Fords is in the correct position, while the Passenger Side Tail Light is mounted too low.
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Old 01-08-2019, 01:08 AM   #51
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Default Re: 1940 Ford Deluxe Tail Lights

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Originally Posted by ford38v8 View Post
As with the Sloper in post 15, this one has the decklid badge below the handle, although it appears that this particular one may also have had one in the normal location above the license plate. Something else to watch for on the 40's from Down Under!



Only the Slopers had the Ford badge below the handle,, whereas the 4 door sedans had it above the handle, similar to the US models.
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Old 01-08-2019, 01:21 AM   #52
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Default Re: 1940 Ford Deluxe Tail Lights

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Originally Posted by mercman from oz View Post
After reading all the replies to this Thread, it seems that the Tail Light mounted on the Right Side in the higher position is the correct height, the same as the 1940 Fords in the USA. The one on the Left Side that sits lower is the incorrect one. That could mean that Ford Australia imported all Standard Passenger Side Rear Fenders for their 1940 Fords, and added the extra Tail Lights for the Deluxe models locally. Unfortunately, I don't think that we will find a definite answer to this question. The people who worked on these cars when new are no longer with us. So, the higher mounted Tail Light on these RHD 1940 Fords is in the correct position, while the Passenger Side Tail Light is mounted too low.

Hi Mercman,, you may be right there,, but I'm tipping that Ford may have also used up the 39 rear LHS fender,, and to fit the 40 tail light, they trimmed out the 39 area which had the slight hump at the top profile of the tailight. I suspect that the 39 tail light position and its profile would have meant the 40 tail light being installed slightly lower.. Curious to know if the 39 tail light does sit lower.
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Old 01-09-2019, 06:40 AM   #53
mercman from oz
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Default Re: 1940 Ford Deluxe Tail Lights


OZ40, I got my friend to measure the distance of his Tear Drop Tail Light to the bottom of the Fender on his early Australian 1940 Ford Deluxe Sedan, and it is only 6 inches. On that basis, Ford Australia could not have used up these early Fenders, as the hole would be way too low. It was a good thought and worth while investigating. Thanks for your input.
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