The Ford Barn

bunnyc · 08-23-2015, 12:00 PM

Yesterday FedEx delivered my new rear cast iron rear drums. I spent an hour or so hand arcing, 40 grit taped to the inside of the drum, my new riveted linings. Full contact all across the lining.

All the while I'm thinking, man, I'm going to have some super brakes on this car!
Tried to put the drums on with just the service brake shoes installed. No go. Drums won't even start to go over the shoes.
Original backing plates, but all other parts are new. Yes, the adjusting wedge is fully retracted and the brake rod is disconnected.
So now I'm just venting on this forum. I know I'm going to either sand the lining a lot more or have the drums turned, somewhere. Mention 'Model A' around here and you get a blank stare.

Mitch//pa · 08-23-2015, 12:11 PM

Did you turn the new drums to true them after swedging on the hub. They come undersized to leave room for trueing.

Rowdy · 08-23-2015, 12:17 PM

What condition are your roller tracks in? Did you center the brake shoes? Just some random questions along with what Mitch posted I can not think of anything else. Rod

Charlie Stephens · 08-23-2015, 12:22 PM

Sounds like the problem I had with my '37 Ford. It turned out that the company that relined the assumed that all of the drums would be turned out at least .030 and arced all their shoes accordingly (mine were NOS). I ended up sending them back through my retail source to the company that did the relining to have them arced. Can you find anyone locally to arc shoes?

Charlie Stephens

bunnyc · 08-23-2015, 12:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mitch//pa

Did you turn the new drums to true them after swedging on the hub. They come undersized to leave room for trueing.

New drums were done by Mike's. Trueing after swedging the hubs is included in their job description. Have to assume it was done.

Mitch//pa · 08-23-2015, 12:47 PM

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Are they getting hung up on the e brake shoes?

bunnyc · 08-23-2015, 12:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rowdy

What condition are your roller tracks in? Did you center the brake shoes? Just some random questions along with what Mitch posted I can not think of anything else. Rod

New roller tracks installed by Snyders. Shoes were centered with the proper tool.

EVERY part of the brake system is new from the brake pedal forward/aft, except the backing plates. Yes, every.

bunnyc · 08-23-2015, 12:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mitch//pa

Are they getting hung up on the e brake shoes?

E brake shoes not installed. Just tried seeing if the drums would clear the service brakes first.

bunnyc · 08-23-2015, 12:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Charlie Stephens

Can you find anyone locally to arc shoes?

Charlie Stephens

No. One place did, but sold their equipment. He said 'no one does that anymore'.

Y-Blockhead · 08-23-2015, 12:59 PM

I just answered a similar problem a member was having not being able to install his drums as they were hanging up on the shoes. Ensure that the Roller pins are riding on top of the roller guides and the shoes pushed all the way in. You may have to push the shoes toward the adjusting wedge while pushing in at the same time.

Y-Blockhead · 08-23-2015, 01:02 PM

Here is that thread...

https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showthread.php?t=175325

bunnyc · 08-23-2015, 01:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Y-Blockhead

I just answered a similar problem a member was having not being able to install his drums as they were hanging up on the shoes. Ensure that the Roller pins are riding on top of the roller guides and the shoes pushed all the way in. You may have to push the shoes toward the adjusting wedge while pushing in at the same time.

Thank you for taking the time to respond to my problem. That has been checked/done previously. I do appreciate the thought.

Charlie Stephens · 08-23-2015, 01:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bunnyc

No. One place did, but sold their equipment. He said 'no one does that anymore'.

Try asking at a local Model A or Early V8 Club for someone that arcs shoes. Get back to the person that sold you the shoes and see if they can send them back to the company that did the relining. The problem is that it is expensive to set up a machine to arc shoes that will trap all of the dust that is generated (OSHA and air quality requirements with BIG fines attached). With modern disc brakes (that don't need the process) dominating the market no one wants to invest in machinery to arc brake shoes.

Charlie Stephens

bunnyc · 08-23-2015, 01:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Charlie Stephens

Try asking at a local Model A or Early V8 Club for someone that arcs shoes. Get back to the person that sold you the shoes and see if they can send them back to the company that did the relining.

Closest Club is about 200 miles away, I'm not a member. I relined the shoes with my riveting tool from Snyders. There are no gaps between the lining and shoe. All rivets are tight.

1931 flamingo · 08-23-2015, 02:03 PM

The easiest remedy probably would be to turn the drums. JMO

Can you measure across the shoes to come up with a dimension??
Paul in CT

H. L. Chauvin · 08-23-2015, 02:41 PM

FWIW:

How about the diameter of the brake shoes' arcs?

Have experienced that a few 80 year old shoes were tampered with in trying to "open" them slightly to "increase" their arc diameters to adjust to "over-worn" inside diameters of steel drums.

Sometimes, after even one (1) of the pair of shoes is "opened", both "ends" of this shoe protrudes more whereby one has to remove more lining material from surfaces on both "ends" of this "opened" shoe lining.

It would not hurt to try to:

A. Place matched newly lined shoes inside brake drums.

B. With a "fine" and thin piece of paper or aluminum foil gauge, check to see if the shoes make contact with the "entire" inner circumference of the drum as opposed to only on both "ends".

C. It does not take much to cause a misfit ......... sometimes with just a little more lining "end" removal, this minor removal will allow drums to slide on.

D. Bad news that we all encounter with "shoe" fit is ....... our brake drums will never stretch even 0.0000000000001" like that of the shoes on our feet ......... well, just saying, my brake drums never stretched like my new shoes.

Keith True · 08-23-2015, 02:42 PM

It's time to measure.I know you paid to have it done,but that doesn't mean somebody didn't pick the drums up from the wrong side of the table,assuming they were already done,when they were actually waiting to be done.Things happen.If the drums measure 11 or more,you are good.If they measure less,they didn't get done.Until the measurements are verified on both the shoes and drums we are still shooting in the dark.

H. L. Chauvin · 08-23-2015, 02:52 PM

Calling Mike's tomorrow cannot hurt either.

Even as Hi-Tech as we would all like to appear, even Campbell Soup & other food producers have re-calls often because of simple human errors.

bunnyc · 08-23-2015, 03:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1931 flamingo

Can you measure across the shoes to come up with a dimension??
Paul in CT

Sorry, I don't have anything that will measure to .001" that large. The largest I can measure is 6".

bunnyc · 08-23-2015, 03:05 PM

In addition to monitoring this thread I have been hand arcing the linings on one drum.
I now have one drum on!
There's no telling how much of the linings I removed, but there's plenty left before hitting the rivets.
It's just going to take a while to get them to fit.
Only three more to go!

08-23-2015, 12:00 PM	#1
bunnyc Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: KY Posts: 296	I was so happy, until... Yesterday FedEx delivered my new rear cast iron rear drums. I spent an hour or so hand arcing, 40 grit taped to the inside of the drum, my new riveted linings. Full contact all across the lining. All the while I'm thinking, man, I'm going to have some super brakes on this car! Tried to put the drums on with just the service brake shoes installed. No go. Drums won't even start to go over the shoes. Original backing plates, but all other parts are new. Yes, the adjusting wedge is fully retracted and the brake rod is disconnected. So now I'm just venting on this forum. I know I'm going to either sand the lining a lot more or have the drums turned, somewhere. Mention 'Model A' around here and you get a blank stare.

08-23-2015, 12:11 PM	#2
Mitch//pa BANNED Join Date: May 2010 Location: Bucks County, PA Posts: 11,454	Re: I was so happy, until... Did you turn the new drums to true them after swedging on the hub. They come undersized to leave room for trueing.

08-23-2015, 12:17 PM	#3
Rowdy BANNED Join Date: May 2010 Location: Gothenburg Nebraska Just off I-80 Posts: 4,893	Re: I was so happy, until... What condition are your roller tracks in? Did you center the brake shoes? Just some random questions along with what Mitch posted I can not think of anything else. Rod __________________ Do the RIGHT thing - Support the H.A.M.B. Alliance!!!!

08-23-2015, 12:22 PM	#4
Charlie Stephens Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Southern California Posts: 7,030	Re: I was so happy, until... Sounds like the problem I had with my '37 Ford. It turned out that the company that relined the assumed that all of the drums would be turned out at least .030 and arced all their shoes accordingly (mine were NOS). I ended up sending them back through my retail source to the company that did the relining to have them arced. Can you find anyone locally to arc shoes? Charlie Stephens

08-23-2015, 12:47 PM	#6
Mitch//pa BANNED Join Date: May 2010 Location: Bucks County, PA Posts: 11,454	Re: I was so happy, until... Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) Are they getting hung up on the e brake shoes?

08-23-2015, 12:59 PM	#10
Y-Blockhead Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Redondo Beach, CA Posts: 5,848	Re: I was so happy, until... I just answered a similar problem a member was having not being able to install his drums as they were hanging up on the shoes. Ensure that the Roller pins are riding on top of the roller guides and the shoes pushed all the way in. You may have to push the shoes toward the adjusting wedge while pushing in at the same time.

08-23-2015, 01:02 PM	#11
Y-Blockhead Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Redondo Beach, CA Posts: 5,848	Re: I was so happy, until... Here is that thread... https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showthread.php?t=175325

08-23-2015, 02:03 PM	#15
1931 flamingo Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: new britain,ct 06052 Posts: 9,390	Re: I was so happy, until... The easiest remedy probably would be to turn the drums. JMO Can you measure across the shoes to come up with a dimension?? Paul in CT

08-23-2015, 02:41 PM	#16
H. L. Chauvin Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 4,179	Re: I was so happy, until... FWIW: How about the diameter of the brake shoes' arcs? Have experienced that a few 80 year old shoes were tampered with in trying to "open" them slightly to "increase" their arc diameters to adjust to "over-worn" inside diameters of steel drums. Sometimes, after even one (1) of the pair of shoes is "opened", both "ends" of this shoe protrudes more whereby one has to remove more lining material from surfaces on both "ends" of this "opened" shoe lining. It would not hurt to try to: A. Place matched newly lined shoes inside brake drums. B. With a "fine" and thin piece of paper or aluminum foil gauge, check to see if the shoes make contact with the "entire" inner circumference of the drum as opposed to only on both "ends". C. It does not take much to cause a misfit ......... sometimes with just a little more lining "end" removal, this minor removal will allow drums to slide on. D. Bad news that we all encounter with "shoe" fit is ....... our brake drums will never stretch even 0.0000000000001" like that of the shoes on our feet ......... well, just saying, my brake drums never stretched like my new shoes. Last edited by H. L. Chauvin; 08-23-2015 at 02:44 PM. Reason: typo

08-23-2015, 02:42 PM	#17
Keith True Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Epping N.H. Posts: 2,984	Re: I was so happy, until... It's time to measure.I know you paid to have it done,but that doesn't mean somebody didn't pick the drums up from the wrong side of the table,assuming they were already done,when they were actually waiting to be done.Things happen.If the drums measure 11 or more,you are good.If they measure less,they didn't get done.Until the measurements are verified on both the shoes and drums we are still shooting in the dark.

08-23-2015, 02:52 PM	#18
H. L. Chauvin Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 4,179	Re: I was so happy, until... Calling Mike's tomorrow cannot hurt either. Even as Hi-Tech as we would all like to appear, even Campbell Soup & other food producers have re-calls often because of simple human errors.

08-23-2015, 03:05 PM	#20
bunnyc Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: KY Posts: 296	Re: I was so happy, until... In addition to monitoring this thread I have been hand arcing the linings on one drum. I now have one drum on! There's no telling how much of the linings I removed, but there's plenty left before hitting the rivets. It's just going to take a while to get them to fit. Only three more to go!