Ford/Champion spark plugs

[42 1/2ton]

Have done several searches here and understand that the Ford/Champion plugs are thought to be replacement plugs but would they lose points if the vehicle was being judged?
The reason I ask is that I have located some of the Ford/Champion H9 Comm plugs, part number 01T 12405. These would be installed into a 1942 Ford Commercial with 29A 100 hp.

[Kube]

Originally Posted by 42 1/2ton

Have done several searches here and understand that the Ford/Champion plugs are thought to be replacement plugs but would they lose points if the vehicle was being judged?
The reason I ask is that I have located some of the Ford/Champion H9 Comm plugs, part number 01T 12405. These would be installed into a 1942 Ford Commercial with 29A 100 hp.

...

[Kube]

Originally Posted by 42 1/2ton

Have done several searches here and understand that the Ford/Champion plugs are thought to be replacement plugs but would they lose points if the vehicle was being judged?
The reason I ask is that I have located some of the Ford/Champion H9 Comm plugs, part number 01T 12405. These would be installed into a 1942 Ford Commercial with 29A 100 hp.

Well, I can add this...
Having served as both a judge and a deputy judge (numerous times) I would not deduct for FORD plugs.
Why?

Well, no one knows for certain if these were factory installed or service parts. How could I possibly defend one position or the other if I simply don't know which position is correct?
I would deduct if they are five rib plugs.

[42 1/2ton]

Thanks Kube, for your reply. The plugs that I have located are the 2 rib type.

[DavidG]

With similar to Mike's judging experience, I also would not deduct points for plugs with Ford on the insulator as long as the rest of the plug was correct for vintage of the application. My rationale would be the same as Mike's.

[ford38v8]

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Originally Posted by DavidG

With similar to Mike's judging experience, I also would not deduct points for plugs with Ford on the insulator as long as the rest of the plug was correct for vintage of the application. My rationale would be the same as Mike's.

Now ya got me thinkin'. I answered deduction on his question put on the V8 Club Forum. Yes, I agree now, we don't know for sure on the Ford Script plugs. ...But, what about the H9 ? In any case, very close to original would certainly not be maximum 8 points.

[Kube]

Originally Posted by ford38v8

Now ya got me thinkin'. I answered deduction on his question put on the V8 Club Forum. Yes, I agree now, we don't know for sure on the Ford Script plugs. ...But, what about the H9 ? In any case, very close to original would certainly not be maximum 8 points.

H9 were OFTEN used in the pickup trucks. in fact, from the documents I've seen, that was the typical plug installed in the light commercial vehicles in 1940.

And, I disagree with you about "close to original"... this ain't horse shoes. If it is wrong, well, it's wrong. "Close" is simply another word for "wrong".

[42 1/2ton]

Alan I am not sure I understand. The Ford parts manuals that I have list the H9 comm plugs for all the Commercials 1938 thru 1947, 90 and 100 hp with Ford part number listed as 01T 12405.

[Kube]

Originally Posted by 42 1/2ton

Alan I am not sure I understand. The Ford parts manuals that I have list the H9 comm plugs for all the Commercials 1938 thru 1947, 90 and 100 hp with Ford part number listed as 01T 12405.

In Alan's defense, not many folks realize that light commercial vehicles were factory equipped with the H9. That being said, I can ONLY speak with any authority in regard to 1940 / 1941.

As a side note:
One thing you MUST keep in mind is that parts books are NOT a good source for restoration reference. These books listed parts that were meant to fit and function with little to zero consideration of what we now term "concourse correct".
I wish I had a dollar for each time an owner attempted to defend a part on his restoration as being correct as it was listed in a parts book. Even more laughable (sad) are the folks that insist it is correct because that's the way it's listed in a (example) Drake catalog.

[42 1/2ton]

Mike, I didn't intend for my response to Alan to be in any way negative, just didn't understand the response. With all questions I have ever ask on the Ford Barn Alan has been very informative.
Thanks for you response to my spark plug question as I have not purchased the plugs yet and needed to know the opinion on how they would be judged.

[Kube]

Originally Posted by 42 1/2ton

Mike, I didn't intend for my response to Alan to be in any way negative, just didn't understand the response. With all questions I have ever ask on the Ford Barn Alan has been very informative.
Thanks for you response to my spark plug question as I have not purchased the plugs yet and needed to know the opinion on how they would be judged.

I didn't once believe your response(s) were negative in any way. I highly doubt Alan did either.

[40 Deluxe]

Good grief! Why all the nitpicking over a wear item like a spark plug??

[Tinker]

Originally Posted by 40 Deluxe

Good grief! Why all the nitpicking over a wear item like a spark plug??

I have a 20's 18mm champion spark plug in my 1927 McCormick Deering, works amazingly great. Would hate to run another plug in it. A good plug doesn't always wear out as advertised.

[ford38v8]

Originally Posted by 42 1/2ton

Mike, I didn't intend for my response to Alan to be in any way negative, just didn't understand the response. With all questions I have ever ask on the Ford Barn Alan has been very informative.
Thanks for you response to my spark plug question as I have not purchased the plugs yet and needed to know the opinion on how they would be judged.

Thank you for your confidence in my ability. My downfall is my readiness to put my foot in my mouth, as Mike and David are always there ready to prove me wrong!

[Kube]

Originally Posted by 40 Deluxe

Good grief! Why all the nitpicking over a wear item like a spark plug??

Perhaps you don't comprehend the desire some folks have to properly restore their cars???

Those that choose to do so must pay special attention to the MANY fine details of absolute correctness.
This is precisely why there are very few (true) #1 cars in existence.

From my personal experience, it is those fine details that are both frustrating and VERY satisfying to achieve.

[Kube]

Originally Posted by ford38v8

Thank you for your confidence in my ability. My downfall is my readiness to put my foot in my mouth, as Mike and David are always there ready to prove me wrong!

Alan, I enjoy the sparring with you. You've taught me a lot through the years my friend. I hope you'll keep it up!

[JT FORD]

What about the cars that have ethanol gasoline or gas with out the lead?
Henry never built a car and shipped it out without the correct gas... Forget the spark plug numbers.

[DavidG]

The original plugs perform well with modern gasoline, with or without ethanol.

[40 Deluxe]

Originally Posted by JT FORD

What about the cars that have ethanol gasoline or gas with out the lead?
Henry never built a car and shipped it out without the correct gas... Forget the spark plug numbers.

Hey, I never thought of that! None of these high point/fine point cars have the correct gas in them! How many points must be deducted for this error? Think of the frustration/satisfaction in trying to find/finding period correct gasoline! Not to mention the test equipment the judges need to properly analyze the gas tank's contents.
Next, what about fluids? It's not a correct restoration if the car has modern engine oil, gear oil or brake fluid! Or modern grease in the wheel bearings, or steering box.

[Kube]

Originally Posted by 40 Deluxe

Hey, I never thought of that! None of these high point/fine point cars have the correct gas in them! How many points must be deducted for this error? Think of the frustration/satisfaction in trying to find/finding period correct gasoline! Not to mention the test equipment the judges need to properly analyze the gas tank's contents.
Next, what about fluids? It's not a correct restoration if the car has modern engine oil, gear oil or brake fluid! Or modern grease in the wheel bearings, or steering box.

I am hoping this is satire...

[ford38v8]

Originally Posted by Kube

I am hoping this is satire...

Mike, you are very intuitive.

[Ggmac]

Or the AIR , needs to be pre nuclear age .

[tubman]

Just like the Corvette guys who are constantly searching for NOS air for their non-DOT tires.

[DavidG]

Mike,


I think not.

[Kube]

Originally Posted by DavidG

Mike,


I think not.

I agree with you. Still, I hope...

[42 1/2ton]

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Mike, DavidG, Alan, thanks for your input. I have purchased the plugs and they will be used in a 1942 29A 100hp Commercial.
Sorry I opened the proverbial can.
Ed

[Kube]

Originally Posted by 42 1/2ton

Mike, DavidG, Alan, thanks for your input. I have purchased the plugs and they will be used in a 1942 29A 100hp Commercial.
Sorry I opened the proverbial can.
Ed

Don't be sorry Ed. You'd asked a very good question. It's unfortunate that so many are eager to offer responses that have nothing to do with the original question.

[40 Deluxe]

Originally Posted by Kube

I am hoping this is satire...

Not entirely. It's an observation of how far out some fine point restorers can get, obsessing over minor details; so why not have the correct fluids in the car as well?!

[ford38v8]

Originally Posted by 40 Deluxe

Not entirely. It's an observation of how far out some fine point restorers can get, obsessing over minor details; so why not have the correct fluids in the car as well?!

It's the minor details in life that are most satisfying. Some people may prioritize differently, but without the fine details life is a sham.

[Kube]

Originally Posted by ford38v8

It's the minor details in life that are most satisfying. Some people may prioritize differently, but without the fine details life is a sham.

Ya know Alan, I believe you are correct. Though I would add that many, perhaps most folks are unable to see the details and that may possibly be one reason many are quick to criticize and / or "poke" at the true restoration efforts going on. And, that's okay.
Still, why they attempt to tear down what brings such satisfaction to people like me I have yet to understand. I truly enjoy the research, the search for "unobtainium" parts and the constant challenge of faithfully recreating a piece of history.
Each and every vehicle I have restored has been a true test of my abilities. And, each and every time, Lord knows, I've been tested!

I have always appreciated other venues for what they are. Want a nice driver? Good for you! Enjoy!
Want a hot rod? Again, enjoy!
Hey, my wife has ten horses and strives for perfection at each and every show she competes in. Do I understand what makes her "tick"? You bet I do. Is it for me? Nope. Do I appreciate the seemingly never ending amount of effort she puts in? Yes sir!
Like me, she does this "horse thing" to see what she is capable of. She, like me, is not attempting to prove to anyone but herself / myself our respective mettle.
Don't have the desire, patience, knowledge, talents and let us not overlook $$$, to restore a car to as near perfection as humanly possible?
Okay - understood and accepted.
Now, how about accepting me and others like me?

[estout81]

Kube,

I like your thinking. Without that kind of thinking nothing would get improved.

[petehoovie]

From spark plugs to philosophizing....This thread is devolving....

[40 Deluxe]

Originally Posted by Kube

Ya know Alan, I believe you are correct. Though I would add that many, perhaps most folks are unable to see the details and that may possibly be one reason many are quick to criticize and / or "poke" at the true restoration efforts going on...…….
Like me, she does this "horse thing" to see what she is capable of. She, like me, is not attempting to prove to anyone but herself / myself our respective mettle.
Don't have the desire, patience, knowledge, talents and let us not overlook $$$, to restore a car to as near perfection as humanly possible?
Okay - understood and accepted.
Now, how about accepting me and others like me?

Kube, I can see where you're coming from. I should explain my comments were directed toward the "checkbook restorers" who buy/commission a restoration simply for bragging rights at the high end snooty shows and at their country club. They have no appreciation for the work that went into their car nor for what the car is. To them, it's just another status symbol.
Didn't mean to throw rocks at your craftsmanship. Personal satisfaction and sense of accomplishment are the true reward, I think.

[Kube]

Originally Posted by 40 Deluxe

Kube, I can see where you're coming from. I should explain my comments were directed toward the "checkbook restorers" who buy/commission a restoration simply for bragging rights at the high end snooty shows and at their country club. They have no appreciation for the work that went into their car nor for what the car is. To them, it's just another status symbol.
Didn't mean to throw rocks at your craftsmanship. Personal satisfaction and sense of accomplishment are the true reward, I think.

I can agree with you in part as I realize there are those that gain their bragging rights by the size of their wallet. All one needs do is attend a Barrett Jackson auction and this will be more than evident time after time.

I can also tell you from personal experience that without exception all of my clients both former and current are not simply "checkbook restorers". All have been very involved in the process and none had me restore their vehicles as a status symbol. Rather, each vehicle either meant something personal to the owner or they simply couldn't tackle the task themselves due to lack of ability and / or time.

[Tinker]

Originally Posted by 40 Deluxe

Kube, I can see where you're coming from. I should explain my comments were directed toward the "checkbook restorers" who buy/commission a restoration simply for bragging rights at the high end snooty shows and at their country club. They have no appreciation for the work that went into their car nor for what the car is. To them, it's just another status symbol.
Didn't mean to throw rocks at your craftsmanship. Personal satisfaction and sense of accomplishment are the true reward, I think.

I don't want to be a dick, but isn't this what facebook is for? Let it go.


Restorations are judged as best as they can by the judges and the people restoring a vehicle can do. Some spend many hrs and decades doing so. IF YOU CHOOSE TO DO THAT.


Interested clients and collectors keep this industry going too. Nothing wrong with a collector. It's not exclusive to the rich... just more expensive and much quicker. You can spend a ton more on a street rod.


You can do it on a limited budget. Just my experience.

[42 1/2ton]

40 Deluxe,
Just so you know, the 1942 Ford 1/2 ton that the spark plugs are for that seem to have caused you some hart burn is a frame off restoration that I have done myself. Over many years as I had the time and money to proceed with each step in the process.
Mike had it right. I enjoy the process of finding the parts that make the truck a piece of history, as close to the truck that rolled of off Mr. Fords assembly line as I can possibly get it.
I am sorry that you may have thought that I have deep pockets and pay someone else to do all of this for me because that is not the case.
I am a child of the 60's and love muscle cars and street rods but I also have a very deep appreciation for the original cars of all decades.
Sorry I caused you any stress over what I thought was a simple question.
Ed

[40 Deluxe]

Originally Posted by 42 1/2ton

40 Deluxe,
Just so you know, the 1942 Ford 1/2 ton that the spark plugs are for that seem to have caused you some hart burn is a frame off restoration that I have done myself. Over many years as I had the time and money to proceed with each step in the process.
Mike had it right. I enjoy the process of finding the parts that make the truck a piece of history, as close to the truck that rolled of off Mr. Fords assembly line as I can possibly get it.
I am sorry that you may have thought that I have deep pockets and pay someone else to do all of this for me because that is not the case.
I am a child of the 60's and love muscle cars and street rods but I also have a very deep appreciation for the original cars of all decades.
Sorry I caused you any stress over what I thought was a simple question.
Ed

Well, I have spouted off out of turn it seems. Sorry guys, I apologize.

[ford38v8]

Originally Posted by petehoovie

From spark plugs to philosophizing....This thread is devolving....

On the contrary, sir. I believe that more than a few personal opinions have evolved from this thread.

[kirkf]

This is a very interesting thread!
Since I have no personal experience in concourse judging, I had no idea the level of detail owners work towards in their restorations.

Sounds like it would be very rewarding to try and maintain the historical accuracy to these levels.

Kirk

[DavidG]

It is (very rewarding).

[deuce_roadster]

In response to post 12----Nit picking is the concourse judges job. I am still looking for some 1940 air for my tires.

[Tinker]

Originally Posted by 40 Deluxe

Well, I have spouted off out of turn it seems. Sorry guys, I apologize.

It's all good. If I had a nickel for every mistake I made... I'd have two nickels.... ha ha ... ya NO. take care!