Very, very strange!

[TonyM]

Originally Posted by Shadetree

]

From what I understand, removing a transmission on a 36 is a big job. I' taken tranny out of a 1949 Ford but that's easy compared to a 36, right?

Quote Shadetree:
You are right, it is no easy task. First, I would remove the top plate of the transmission and try to see what the issue is. You have two choices to remove the transmission.

Either remove the engine or pull the differential and driveshaft back far enough to drop the transmission. You will need a spring spreader for this.

Personally I prefer the latter method.


On the other hand, its winter. A good time to pull the engine and refresh everything. Good luck and keep us posted on your findings.

Shadetree:

What is different from pulling the rear end and removing the trans on a 1936 and 1937? I pulled the rear on the 1937 and easily removed the transmission. What on the 1936 is different? Why do you need a spring spreader on the 1936?

Thanks. TM

[Chris]

Originally Posted by TonyM

Shadetree:

What is different from pulling the rear end and removing the trans on a 1936 and 1937? I pulled the rear on the 1937 and easily removed the transmission. What on the 1936 is different? Why do you need a spring spreader on the 1936?

Thanks. TM

You would only need one if you left the spring in the car. I would unbolt the 2 u bolts, disconnect the torque tube front the trans, remove speedometer cable, E brake linkage and brake linkage (assuming the brakes are stock) anr roll the rear end with spring back. Then support the engine and remove the trans. Its a big job, but not a hard job.

[TonyM]

Originally Posted by Chris

You would only need one if you left the spring in the car. I would unbolt the 2 u bolts, disconnect the torque tube front the trans, remove speedometer cable, E brake linkage and brake linkage (assuming the brakes are stock) anr roll the rear end with spring back. Then support the engine and remove the trans. Its a big job, but not a hard job.

Yep, I just unbolted the shocks, disconnected the brake cables and speedo, unbolted the u-joint clamshell and then disconnected the spring/differential combine from the frame, and the whole thing came back easy.

[V8COOPMAN]

I think the point he was trying to make is that trans on a '49 just drops out the bottom relatively easily. DD

[JM 35 Sedan]

The transmission has to come up and out through the passenger compartment. This is usually easier and cleaner when the front seat is removed. When removing the transmission on a '35 -'36 passenger car or light commercial vehicle, after the rear has been taken down and rolled back, the back of the engine must come up (after removing two trans to frame bolts) enough to allow the rear transmission mount to clear the center of X member area. In many cases you cannot raise the back of the engine high enough to do this without lossening the front motor mount bolts, and then, if engine is lifted too high, bending or breaking something, and possibly pushing fan blades into the radiator becomes a real concern.
So, what I like to do is lift the back of the engine just high enough to remove the U joint, and the rear trans mount/bearing retainer by removing the six bolts that hold it to the back of the trans. Put one or two bolts w/washers back in the trans to keep the bearing and output shaft in place. With all of this off the rear of the trans, it will come back away from the engine bell housing far enough to come up and out. Some straps around the bottom of the trans or fastened to the threaded holes where the top fastens, will be your friend during removal efforts.
When removing the transmission this way on a '37, you do not have the same problems with the rear trans mount interfering in the center of the X member area.

[Joe Shell]

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Thanks for your suggestions Shadetree. I have been gathering info on my problem all day. Consensus is to pull shifter tower to inspect the interior of the transmission. Went to a restoration shop that does mechanical work. They told me the shifter forks may be out of position, and to pull shift tower to see if anything obvious is causing the problem. This car has custom made carpeting installed which does not look like it will be too easy to remove.
Too cold and dark in my garage to work out there now.

What gets me is that I drive this car just about every week and the transmission has always worked great. For this to happen while the car was idling in neutral is hard to understand.

The engine compartment is clean and fresh, so if the transmission has to come out I will probably have to pull the differential. Car has aColumbia two speed rear end which may complicate things.

Joe

[RandyZ]

Sounds like the input shaft welded to the output shaft. This would explain why shifting to neutral has no affect, but pushing in the clutch does. It's been too many years since I was inside one of those trannys to tell you how the two shafts are separated. I know that in a T5 there is needle bearings that supports the front of the output shaft in a recess on the end of the input shaft. Same idea? Bet you will find that your low on oil too.

[Shadetree]

Originally Posted by TonyM

Shadetree:

What is different from pulling the rear end and removing the trans on a 1936 and 1937? I pulled the rear on the 1937 and easily removed the transmission. What on the 1936 is different? Why do you need a spring spreader on the 1936?

Thanks. TM

I guess my method of separating the rear spring from the differential dates back to my teenage years in the early 50's. I had a `40 Ford tudor with long spring shackles. I could easily remove the long shackles without a spring spreader. I never tried removing the U-bolts and have had my `35 apart twice using a spring spreader.

The weakest link in a Ford back then were the transmissions, especially the cluster gear. They could not take the abuse of a teenager. Transmissions were plentiful at the local junk yards for $20, but that was nearly a week's salary working at a Texaco Station and going to school.

Ford flathead engines were tough. Overheating probably destroyed more flathead engines than over revving...

[jimTN]

Sure sounds like FOD to me. A piece of the sync, a pin, old tooth some sort of foreign object has gotten cought between the imput shaft gear and the cluster gear. Get the cap off, drain the oil and get a light down there. If you can find the object and work it out and retreive it with a magnet, then problem solved.

[Joe Shell]

This is an update to my locked up transmission problem on my 36 cabriolet.

Yesterday I spoke to two very knowledgable mechanics who really know early Fords. Both suggested that I remove the shift tower and check the inside of the transmission. It was suggested that the shift forks could be out of position which may cause the transmission input shaft to lock up. I decided to pull the shift tower as soon as the outside temperature got up over freezing in a few days.

This morning, I could not stand the suspense. Despite the bitter cold in my garage, I started to take out my floorboards to remove the shift tower and take a look. While removing the floorboards, a friend who has a 1935 Ford Cabriolet, came over. When the floorboards were out I wanted to demonstrate the problem. Made sure the trans was in neutral, clutch pedal up, hit starter, and was astonished to hear the engine turn over and start.

For two days I played with the shift lever, moving it into into every position. The movement of the shift lever felt normal but the starter would not crank the engine unless the trans was in neutral WITH the clutch pedal DOWN. I even tried rocking the car in gear hoping to somehow free up whatever was jammed. But that did nothing.

Now, after doing nothing more than removing the floorboards, the transmission appears normal. Figured I better take a road test before installing the floorboards. Transmission working perfectly as it always has.

I thought about removing the shift tower anyway but decided not to. I' m in the process of installing the floorboards.

I'm happy but concerned. Wish I knew what happened.

Thanks to all for your suggestions.

Joe

[Mart]

Is there some sort of a short circuit being caused by the clutch pedal movement or release mechanism?

To be honest I'm completely baffled. I'd need to be there to be of any help at all.

Mart.

[Joe Shell]

Super,

Looks like you were right on. See my update of a few minutes ago.
Thanks for your help. Think I should remove shift tower and inspect or just drive it and hope for the best?

Joe

[V8COOPMAN]

Hmmmmmm! That dreaded "fixed itself....everything will be fine" syndrome! Hate when that happens. Good luck! DD

[Jack E/NJ]

>>>Despite the bitter cold in my garage>>>

Maybe ice formed and dropped into a bad place from condensation inside the box?

Jack E/nj

[Mike B]

Originally Posted by Jack E/NJ

>>>Despite the bitter cold in my garage>>>

Maybe ice formed and dropped into a bad place from condensation inside the box?

Jack E/nj

Or maybe the broken chip found it's way to the bottom of the trans?

[Joe Shell]

Think I will change the transmission oil before I reinstall floorboard. Transmission oil looked good and was at proper level.

Draining trans oil may shed some light on what happened.


Joe

[El Rat]

Things that go away by themselves come back by themselves! Look inside before driving! Something is in or wrong with the tranny! g

[Marv]

While you are at it with the top off maybe you can use a magnet to check for pieces. When i was kid i lost the shift tower pin in to the trans. I already had filled it with oil and could not find the pin. I was in a hurry and got a pin from another transmission and put it in. I drove it that way with no problem for quite a while and even had forgot about. One night i was winding it hard in second gear. It locked up, ruined the cluster and chipped another gear and let loose and was able to drive it home to re do the trans.

[Talkwrench]

Draining the oil and removing the shift tower is not hard..DO IT! just to be on the safe side..

[JM 35 Sedan]

Originally Posted by El Rat

Things that go away by themselves come back by themselves! Look inside before driving! Something is in or wrong with the tranny! g

I agree. I also believe there was something lodged between gear teeth which locked up the gears.

Your two very knowledgeable mechanics who really know early Fords were on target suggesting that you remove the shift top and take a good look inside the box, but I don't agree with their suggestion that shift forks being out of place would have caused input gear to lock up.
My theory is there is a piece of something (possibly a piece of broken gear tooth) in the bottom of the case. With these cold temperatures, your gear oil was very thick. With the engine idling, and transmission in neutral with clutch engauged, the input and cluster gears are still rotating. That rotation and thick oil could have allowed that piece of something to be pulled up into the gear mesh, locking the transmission and stalling the engine. Once the car was moved into the warmer garage, the oil became thinner, and with some movement of gears, possibly when moving the shift lever into different gear positions, that piece of something dislodged allowing the gears to turn again.
Just draining the transmission may not bring that piece of something out of the box. You need to remove the shift top after draining the oil and inspect all internal parts, especially the gear teeth. Then see if you can find anything in the bottom of the box. Of course these are just my thoughts and opinions.