39merc block

[52merc]

ok gurus tell me whati need to look for to make sure its a 39merc block i have been looking at a block that has no markings on it except someone has stamped on the top of where intake sits 99a13545789 these seem to have been put there after manufacture now ford had no serial#s on engines so what gives here thanks trev

[26 lakes]

The center water passages in the top of the block are round. The Ford is a trapizoid. The 39 block has a dime size freeze plug on both sides in the bottom of block where the oil pan bolts on.

[swoopNZ]

The Canadian ones down here have 99A cast in the block behind the RH water pump.

[52merc]

yep know thyat but this is a usa block no dam #s cast anywher

[Ken/Alabama]

Also should be 3 3/16 bore instead of 3 1/16.

[Bruce Lancaster]

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

The serial is VERY odd, as it is FAR beyond the total produced with 99 seials 1939-48.
26 Lakes has the essential points for American 99's. It is common but not universal for '39-40 99"s to have a "99" only stamped at right front of manifold surface on block. Stamoed numerals are about 1/4" high.
The two freeze plugs can be spotted even on an assembled motor, because there is a long bulge up the block right above each to create enough room on the pan flange to house the plugs.
221 and 239 blocks will look very much the same, and the 221 can be bored to 239 bore, but on 221 lower and middle water holes are trapezoid, on 239 lower only, middle one is round.
Also the upper cylinder area of the 239 is astoundingly thick...you can see and feel this at the trapezoidal hole, where the cylinder wall almost reaches the hole.

[52merc]

thanks bruce it has 99a stamped on the top of valley with a few #s there is no cast # on the block anywhere were usa blocks 99a? as the canada ones? ive been into flatheads along time and have never seen a # stamped on top of valley

[Ken/Alabama]

I have one of these blocks lying in the shop floor . I will do some scraping around on it this weekend to check for numbers on it. Now my curiosity is up.

[Bruce Lancaster]

USA flatheads before the 59 lack block ID casting. The stamped 99 at front was JUST the 99, not a serial...the number shown here looks like a Ford serial, but is way too high for '39-48 239 series...
A few early flatheads DO have apparently original serial stamped on block. Perhaps some were done to meet a state or local legal requirement...? Others may well have been industrial engines sold without transmission. Ford put serials only on completed and tested complete engines, normally putting the # on trans which went out to assembly plants as a ready to install engine trans unit...but industrial engines were available without trans as well as with car or truck trans, and I would think those would have gotten serial numbers.

[52merc]

right update bruce ive just been down to check it out cleaned up around serial #
*99A 1331022* is stamped on rear of valley however 59 cast on rear bell housing no i repeat no frost plugs ddnt pull head ????????????????

[Ken/Alabama]

Sounds like a 59A to me.

[rotorwrench]

The 59 on the bell is a dead giveaway.

[Ken/Alabama]

Just took a quick look when I got home at the block I have . The water holes between the center cyls have a almost triangle hole at the top ,round hole in the center and a trapezoid hole at the bottom. It has the core/freeze plugs in the pan rail and has a 3 3/16" bore . There is no 59 or other designation on the bell housing. I will clean the intake surface good and look for any numbers there. I have been wanting to build this engine and put it in my 40 .

[Bruce Lancaster]

That would be a '39-40 99 block, Ken, a VERY good block and one that will look exactly the same as a 221 1940.

[Ken/Alabama]

Here are a couple of pics of the engine I have. I think I might have another one, I need to dig it out.

[26 lakes]

This could also be a 99T block. They were in the large Ford trucks. The Mercury and the larger Ford blocks were the same.

[Mike in Mass]

THIS IS A GOOD THREAD . I have the same motor in my celler . came out of a 40 big fire engine. 99 on the top corner . no reaised intake deck . . has 9T on the heads . nothing on the bellhousing . I soaked the baby for a month sprayin pb blaster down the cylinders . my brother Chuck came over ,an just for the heck nof it ,tried to spin it over an "smooooze" it turned over , I just got all the valves to open an close.

[Bruce Lancaster]

Allegedly...no confirmation, but a good yarn...the "99" stamp on '39-40 239's was to distinguish 239 from 221 on the assembly line, since they looked exactly alike once assembled. Then somewhere in '41 or 2 Someone hit upon the idea of painting 239"s blue to distinguish from the mossy green 221, and of course the blue carried over postwar when all v8's were 239 '46-48.

[Ralph Moore]

Didn't the Mercury's(early ones) also have 29A marked heads, as opposed to 59AB? I found a motor in a junk yard here in a big cabover truck. I did some research and came up with the Mercury designation. That would also fit in with the truck use mentioned earlier.
It turned over, and I wanted to buy it, but the guy thought it was worth a whole lot more than I did.

[Bruce Lancaster]

29A is 1942 Merc. Any early number with a 9 in that position is 239, the 2 is the intro year. A '42 Merc would have the "raised" intake pad.
I think 99 Mercs used the 221 truck heads...don't have merc catalog handy. Trucks got 99T I think...

[Mike in Mass]

the motor in my 39 that was in my fire engine ( my avitar) has the 29A heads, and the raised intake deck , I remember sombody here sayin it was a 42 motor. The motor in my celler ,that a big raised 9T on the top rt of the heads . round middle water hole , no raised deck AND it passes the pencil test !. is it a merc motor as well ?

[merc40]

looks like a mec. block to me..whats that tag on the back ken in alabama / DICK T.

[26 lakes]

Mike In Mass,
Your block is the same as a 1939-40 Mercury motor. The 99T was in the large Ford trucks. Your head should say 9T on it. I have two 99T blocks that I am going to have magged. I also have a 1941 Mercury block that is being assembled. Same block other than the intake area on the block. These blocks are 95 HP, the Fords 85 HP.

[Ken/Alabama]

Originally Posted by merc40

looks like a mec. block to me..whats that tag on the back ken in alabama / DICK T.

There isnt a tag on the back . If you are refering to the bell housing it just looks like there is something there in the picture. I had been scraping around on it looking for numbers.

[Bruce Lancaster]

USA blocks before 59 did not have cast in designations. Canadians did. USA ones need fairly detailed scrutiny to identify model and distinguish 239 from bored out 221...some of the details needed are in posts above.

[38 coupe]

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

For a run down of the flathead blocks with pictures look here: http://www.goldengatev8.org/tips/Evo...heFlathead.pdf

[Mike in Mass]

Wow 38coupe thats awsum ! thanks for that link !

[2tudors]

Are these 99 blocks the only years with the keystone water passages?I have two blocks with what appears to have 19 cast on front pass side behind water pump.Both with Keystone.No markings on bell.One has 5G108661 stamped on top of intake deck,other has 4G59288*.The 9 has a line under number.Both have a factory relief,and all outer exhaust ports on both blocks seen to be massaged with a smooth edge inside port where one would cut the D into block.I was told second block was ordered for a replacement block for a gen set.Any info would be appreciated.Also both have what looks like a s stamped(shaped like a lightning bolt)ramdomly on top as well.
Thanks Dave

[2tudors]

I added pics in profile,also a 19 cast inside one keystone and 6 in other.Has freeze plugs in pan rails.I guess I am looking for conformation.I was told 47ish truck but believe are 99's...Are canadian blocks.
Thanks Dave

[Bruce Lancaster]

There was a 19 block, and I do not know how it differed from the 29 block, both dropped the pan rail plugs and had the distinct pad for manifold.. Canadians did mark pre-59 blocks, unlike USA. All the prewar 24 studs had the keystone I believe.
The Canadian serials are entirely different from USA, and there is a website partially at least listing them. Canada made its own engines so no relationship was needed with USA series.

[2tudors]

These blocks have the freeze plugs,and Keystone.Possibly Canada carried plugs over later than US.Maybe military issue?All the C59/69A I have have round passage and no relief.Also sharp edge in exhaust port.I guess the main thing is no cracks.I thought I'd get lucky and have a block that I could put some really big slugs in....

[Bruce Lancaster]

This page has the only information I know of on the Canadian serial numbers:

http://www.wnyrg.org/canvins.html

And here's a copy of their chart:



So could your #'s given in post 28 be 1944 and 1945 extensions of the civilian 1942 info shown in chart?... That seems to sort of fit.
Do these blocks have either a circular boss or an actual drilled passage to the right of the vertical oil port at back of block??
I think the boss there marking location for full-flow oil to Bren coolers and truck filters denotes a wartime '41-42 type engine, but that is my own guess.

[2tudors]

The blocks are both drilled for full flow oil....Three holes.No bosses just holes.I have C69A blocks with the the round bosses you speak of.

[Bruce Lancaster]

I think that supports my guess that these are post-1942 military numbers extending from the published 1942 numbers.
Canada made most of the WWII Ford engines for all the Empire armies, and many applications used the full flow to coolers or to filters.
The Ford USA 1937-48 engine overhaul book has many illustrations of the US version of all this, and one picture in it shows the 3 hole block.
USA engines also have the boss, and I think some of them also went into canadian production, and I believe all the postwar engines kept the boss for the third hole.

[2tudors]

Thanks Bruce,sounds like mystery block is probably a good one...I guess I will try to measure bore thickness and hopefully end up with a heavy duty block.I haven't a regular 59/69 to compare right handy.I have a little jimmy blower and thought this would be a good candidate for it.The relieving is almost done already....Maybe some get some really big pistons for this one...
Thanks Dave

[G32]

Originally Posted by 38 coupe

For a run down of the flathead blocks with pictures look here: http://www.goldengatev8.org/tips/Evo...heFlathead.pdf

Downloadable Flathead Block Pictures

[Mike in Mass]

THANKS G32 for posting that link and for taking the time to put it all together That answers allot of questions. Ive had guys ask me about the "pencil test" and they think I have rocks in my head .NOW I can just give them this link . very informative and nicely done thanks again mike p

[G32]

Originally Posted by Mike in Mass

THANKS G32 for posting that link and for taking the time to put it all together That answers allot of questions. Ive had guys ask me about the "pencil test" and they think I have rocks in my head .NOW I can just give them this link . very informative and nicely done thanks again mike p

Just uploaded the link--credit for work gos to 38 Coupe and Mills

Rumbleseat collected Flathead info--hope it works.

http://www.flatheadv8.org/rumblest/intro.htm