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Old 05-31-2021, 07:41 PM   #1
Don T
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Default Shoebox pulling a Teardrop

First the question; the car handles the trailer fine but overheating is the problem, so is this doable or is it just too much to expect out of this car? Background is; 8ba with OD, 3.88 rear end. The bore was within tolerances when I got the car so I did rings, bearings, valves, crank water pumps etc. There is a 5 blade fan which I believe is aftermarket, about 18" dia, sitting about 1-1/4" back from the rad. This was a frame off so entire driveline has been gone over. I have about 800 miles on the car now but compression is sitting at 80-85lbs all across, I am assuming the rings have not seated yet as a squirt of oil in the cylinders brings it up to the low 90's. Block and heads cleaned using the rodding and flushing method, sand and casting wires removed, I believe it to be clean. Rad was checked out by a "old guy" rad shop (they still exist) and he indicated good to go. No problems running without pulling the trailer at any temp, have not tried mountain roads yet as none are near. Started with 170 stats that came with the car; changed to 160's; both sets of stats were/are working properly. I was suspicious of the temp gauge so added a mechanical gauge which has read-out in the car. Without the trailer and with the 160 stats temp runs about 170. Both gauges seem to be on the same page.

Pulling the trailer (guessing 800 lb) at 60mph at 70 F into a 20 mph breeze temp is 190; going the opposite direction it sits at 200. I pulled the rad and flushed it, left straight CLR in it for a day, flushed engine and rad. In this process everything ran clean, antifreeze was a touch brown but still very "green". Engine vac normal and steady, plugs the right color, timing right on. I have a nylon bug screen in front of the rad (it is clean and rad clean). I realize the screen is not going to help the cooling but I also need a safety factor. The results of these latest efforts are zero as I expected. At the 200 temp the car smelled hot. So I do not think this is going to work when the temp gets to 95 and the car even sees a hill.

So am I missing something or am I going to have to re-core the rad and add another core or change out to a higher capacity radiator? All thoughts appreciated especially from those who have been down this road!!
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Old 05-31-2021, 09:20 PM   #2
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Default Re: Shoebox pulling a Teardrop

sounds like you have done your home work. compression readings are low, but at 800 mile some break in is still in the future and should improve. were the bores checked for out of round, and properly honed? A streamlined teardrop should not be an issue I would think. do you run in overdrive? maybe a radiator shroud would be an easy fix.
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Old 05-31-2021, 09:42 PM   #3
Don T
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Default Re: Shoebox pulling a Teardrop

Honing was done, a little coarse I thought. Yes I did the runs in overdrive, supposed to be 30 C next couple of days and will try in straight thru ratio. The size of the aftermarket fan kind of limits what kind of shroud I could create, it is as wide and tall as the core. Perhaps moving the rad back would be easier, if the distance from the fan is the problem. I know someone is going to ask me if I did temperature checks with infra-red, yes and no as my old gun goes absolutely snarfy when within 8" of the plug wires or dist. The car will idle all day and hardly get the bottom half of the rad warm. Thanks for your thoughts.
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Old 05-31-2021, 09:43 PM   #4
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Default Re: Shoebox pulling a Teardrop

Cant see what you're worried about.. See Lawries adventures in his 33 towing a van ...
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Old 05-31-2021, 10:05 PM   #5
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Default Re: Shoebox pulling a Teardrop

I believe that the OD should be used sparingly (if at all) when towing a substantial load. Maybe with a good stiff tailwind or on a long downhill grade, but not often. You also lose engine braking when running in OD, which could be a safety concern. You say you have a 3.89 rear gear; most OD cars have 4.11 gears, so you are putting more of a load than usual on it if you use the OD.

As to the actual temperature, as long as it doesn't boil, there usually isn't a problem. You don't mention losing any coolant, so I don't think there's a real problem. I had to read the post twice to make sure, but you say that it runs cooler into the wind than it does with the wind. If true, that suggests an airflow problem to me.
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Old 05-31-2021, 10:06 PM   #6
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Default Re: Shoebox pulling a Teardrop

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Canadian 1950 Meteor Deluxe Four Door Sedan pulling a Teardrop - Nice.
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Old 05-31-2021, 10:37 PM   #7
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Default Re: Shoebox pulling a Teardrop

There are additives to add to your coolant that help disapate
more heat. Water Wetter is one that I have used, and it helped.
Also, as Tubman said, 200 degrees is not that hot, as long as
you are not loosing too much coolant. Coolant should be just
a little above the core, to leave room for expansion of coolant.

Do a search for: Cooling System Additives - Cooling Agent



.
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Old 05-31-2021, 10:38 PM   #8
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Default Re: Shoebox pulling a Teardrop

Thanks for the pic mercman, nice rig indeed
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Old 05-31-2021, 10:38 PM   #9
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Default Re: Shoebox pulling a Teardrop

Thinking some more about this, I believe that the owners manual advises against using OD while towing. If you don't have one, I'll check mine tomorrow.
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Old 05-31-2021, 10:51 PM   #10
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Default Re: Shoebox pulling a Teardrop

The five blade aftermarket fan may be an issue too. Some of the flex fans, made to straighten out at high rpm, when in theory you are on the highway and should have plenty of air flow...simply do not work. any access to a stock fan to try out?
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Old 05-31-2021, 10:54 PM   #11
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Default Re: Shoebox pulling a Teardrop

Re timing: Since an 8BA has only the vacuum chamber for proper timing (no mechanical advance mechanism), you have to be certain it is working! Just setting the timing at idle is not enough. You have to make sure the timing advances as RPM increases. If not, overheating is a sure result.
Also, is the carb original? For the vacuum advance distributor to work right it needs a matching carb with the proper internal vacuum passages or the timing will never be right!
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Old 05-31-2021, 11:10 PM   #12
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Default Re: Shoebox pulling a Teardrop

all good points ^^^^
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Old 06-01-2021, 12:38 AM   #13
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Default Re: Shoebox pulling a Teardrop

what ever mechanical fan you end up using, it should be about 3/4 of an inch from the radiator for optimal cooling if not running a shroud. if using a shroud the fan blades shroud be positioned so that the blades are half way into the shroud, no matter what the distance from the radiator. also make sure that all the factory air deflectors around the radiator support that direct the air through the radiator, are in place.
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Old 06-01-2021, 08:18 AM   #14
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Default Re: Shoebox pulling a Teardrop

Everything you mentioned sounds reasonable IF you are driving the car by itself. Some thoughts
The rule of thumb is ambient air temp + 100 degrees is acceptable.

Radiators; for what you are attempting I would think about a “new style” core. I was going old school (4 core) when I had ours done. Was talked out of “old school” by the radiator shop. 3 core x ¾” tubes has been proven (according to him) to lower the “dwell time” facilitating the heat transfer.
If you insist on running a mechanical fan a shroud is critical (as the OP mentioned) even if the fan is located ¾” from the core..

Ignition timing; uber critical. Bubba here (thankx Bubba ignition) and or Charlie NY have both done extensive R&D on ignition curves. I set mine up like they suggested; to maximize torque (18 degrees @1800 RPMs). The distributer tops out @ 2400 and 20 degrees +the 2 on the wheel. I also use manifold vacuum instead of ported signal. IF you are running the Load ‘O’ Matic it is impossible to do. I cannot express how critical the proper curve is especially what you are doing.

Gearing; ’ Im thinking you are “lugging” that motor. Vacuum signal to the distributor is falling off just compounding the problem.

Good luck, I don’t think your problem is insurmountable. It’s going to take some work, but it can be done.
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Old 06-01-2021, 08:58 AM   #15
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Default Re: Shoebox pulling a Teardrop

Remove the bug screen and see what happens. I was told that the nylon can expand when hot and can restrict the airflow.
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Old 06-01-2021, 10:55 AM   #16
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Default Re: Shoebox pulling a Teardrop

I was once told bug screens can reduce air flow by as much as 50%..........
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Old 06-01-2021, 11:15 AM   #17
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Default Re: Shoebox pulling a Teardrop

When driving the Tonner in O/D while carrying a load I’ve observed a similar rise in engine temp. (Close to H on the gauge) When that happens I take the trans out of O/D and run in DD which causes the temp to drop down between N and H. FWIW my theory is that when driving in O/D and under a load the engine is operating below the optimum torque curve (think lug condition) and doesn’t shed the BTU’s as fast due to the fact that the engine RPM’s which affect both fan speed and water pump speed are also operating at a 30% lower speed for a given MPH speed. The next time you take the trailer out see if there is an observable difference in temp while operating IN and OUT of O/D.
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Old 06-01-2021, 11:17 AM   #18
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Default Re: Shoebox pulling a Teardrop

I have had a lot of experience with OD transmissions in EV8F's, my father owned several F-1 Fords w/OD and I have owned a couple of F100's with OD's.
'tubman' hit the nail on the head in #5. Every Owners manual I have ever read advises the OD be locked out when towing and/or driving in the mountains.

Factory equipped OD vehicles always have a lower gear ratio than non-OD vehicles, ie;
a 59 Ford F100 generally has 3.72 gearing with 670x15 tires, an OD vehicle has 3.89 or 4.11.
My father had a '52 F-1 V8 with OD for several years, he pulled a 30' house trailer all over the western states for many years with no problems..
Modern vehicles with OD transmissions have a tow mode built inter the system. Of course very few people ever read the owners manual, so they have no idea what that little 'trailer/tow' sign on the end of the gear shift lever means.
During the late 1930's, early '40's my father pulled a teardrop trailer all over the western U.S. behind his '40 Chevy 2 dr sd.. On one trip to Idaho from So. Cal it was so hot in the car that our crayons melted all over the back seat.. Not a good thing in a car that was only a year old.
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Old 06-01-2021, 12:48 PM   #19
Don T
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Default Re: Shoebox pulling a Teardrop

Just for more info; stock carb and distributor, new vac advance and it works, a little extra advance and starts to ping so is set to factory timing mark. I believe bug screens are a issue; so is a rad filled with bugs, pick your poison I guess. A 1 hour drive around here and shaking the screen down is a good idea. Regarding the fan; it is not a flex fan and looks to be the same vintage as the car. I believe a shroud is a good idea, these cars never had one; it would be a monster to build as I mentioned the fan is wider than the core. All factory "deflectors" in place. In OD rpm at this speed is about 2200, peak torque. As mentioned I will try this out again on the next hot day with OD on and off. Thank you all for your thoughts and will get back to you.
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Old 06-01-2021, 08:23 PM   #20
Don T
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Default Re: Shoebox pulling a Teardrop

New test to-day, temp is up to 80 deg, up 10 from the previous trip, wind speed and direction same as previous test day, same route (about 25 miles). Portion of the trip that was 200 deg the other day is now running 205+; the other area which ran 195 is about 200; seems to reflect the weather change; the temps in OD or out of OD are same same. The only way to drop the temp is drop the speed from 60 to 50, temps drop about 5 deg. This engine has never ran near as smooth as the same engine in my truck, when it gets to the 205 temp it even runs rougher; it also burped several times today, guessing vapor lock maybe? So best I get this thing running better/smoother before I dick with trailer/overheating issue. Thanks again for your help.
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Old 06-01-2021, 08:39 PM   #21
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Default Re: Shoebox pulling a Teardrop

I think it would be worth running a test with the bug screen removed just to see what happens. If it doesn't help reduce the temp then you know the bug screen doesn't hurt airflow but if it does then at least you know and can take whatever action you decide.
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Old 06-01-2021, 08:43 PM   #22
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Default Re: Shoebox pulling a Teardrop

Our 33 with a 99a 265 ci engine 3.78 rear end tows the caravan that weighs about 900kg at 50-55 mph all day in 35 -40C days , stock cooling with stock fan on the generator ,never over heats, most times around 75-85 C.
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Old 06-01-2021, 10:06 PM   #23
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Default Re: Shoebox pulling a Teardrop

Put some miles on the car to see if compression improves
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