Flathead Lifter Adjusting - "On the Bench"

[35fordtn]

Just Curious, why don't you use stock Non adjustable lifters? I can readily understand that a normal hobbyist without a valve grinder, lathe or mill, etc would much prefer adjustables, but for the engine builder why wouldn't you use the stock lifters? Some of my cars have adjustables and some stock. My 1940 after 4200 miles the lash is within .002" of where it was when I did the valve Job and it has non adjustables.

[glennpm]

Hi Gary,


Wondering if you've come up with a better way to make the adjustments for a built motor with adjustable lifters?


"1-Adjusting the valves (I'm still referring to new builds here) without the headache of reaching under the manifold area to get all 16 done. The method I started this post about recently, "on the bench", really works fine for me. I can "hit" the target lash number within a "thou or two" WITHOUT having to hold the lifters and turn the adjusting nuts inside the unit. I will "dial-in" the necessary numbers during the final assembly. This ENTIRE procedure now should take us about an "hour and a half", two at the most, to get ALL 16 valves assembled AND lashed??

2-Holding the lifters from turning even with the bores drilled is still no "fun", this is even mentioned above here by "glennpm", I'm in total agreement with him! I am still working on this here?"


Thanks,
Glenn

[GOSFAST]

Originally Posted by glennpm

Hi Gary,


Wondering if you've come up with a better way to make the adjustments for a built motor with adjustable lifters?


"1-Adjusting the valves (I'm still referring to new builds here) without the headache of reaching under the manifold area to get all 16 done. The method I started this post about recently, "on the bench", really works fine for me. I can "hit" the target lash number within a "thou or two" WITHOUT having to hold the lifters and turn the adjusting nuts inside the unit. I will "dial-in" the necessary numbers during the final assembly. This ENTIRE procedure now should take us about an "hour and a half", two at the most, to get ALL 16 valves assembled AND lashed??

2-Holding the lifters from turning even with the bores drilled is still no "fun", this is even mentioned above here by "glennpm", I'm in total agreement with him! I am still working on this here?"


Thanks,
Glenn

Hi Glenn, no answer yet, it's not going to be a "simple" setup to get done.

Due to our workload with my race guys (and some personal issues) I just don't have time to devote to the lifter adjusting issue on these Flatties.

This doesn't mean I've given up, just won't be for a while!

(Add) One major change over here I will not be building any Flatheads any longer with "small-base" cams, much too involved for me. This decision is after the last 2 forum member's builds recently here with these type cams!

Thanks, Gary in N.Y.

P.S. There's another issue I've wanted to "conquer" for a while now, even chatted with my friend Paul at Topline. I wanted to do a hyd-lifter Flathead (8BA) and talked with him about the lifters. It is doable, but it's one more item I just can't spare the time I need to work it out! It would have used a highly modified SBC lifter and bushed lifter bores! I'm told they can do the cams also for a hyd-lifter setup!

[glennpm]

Thanks Gary for the update and taking the time to do it!

The SBC change is sure not for me!

Thanks,
Glenn

[35fordtn]

Gary, see my above question.. why not just use non adjustable lifters like ford did?? They are lighter and won’t loosen or loose adjustment. I understand the appeal for the use of adjustables to the average consumer, but guys that have the proper equipment and tools it would seem like stock lifters would be better and easier?

[big job]

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Originally Posted by 35fordtn

Gary, see my above question.. why not just use non adjustable lifters like ford did?? They are lighter and won’t loosen or loose adjustment. I understand the appeal for the use of adjustables to the average consumer, but guys that have the proper equipment and tools it would seem like stock lifters would be better and easier?

I totally agree: 50 yrs ago we used adjustable 8N lifters local Ford dealer and
my friend parts guy, gave me a genuine Ford lifter tool that has two pins
its one piece, not these two piece china stuff knuckle buster junk. We all know
the time it takes even for adjustable's never mind solids. So we ask how in the
world is this done pumping 5,000 engines a day, but yes many, many, people
on the line. The block is now fresh machined sitting up on its bell housing, no
crank yet, but cam installed, with lifters. The cam is turned by hand to the heal you can see it. All valve seats have been machined ground to the tenths,
to the seats and to the lifters on heal- (down) Hard part for me without pic,
the jig is; picture a male and female cone the male goes on the seat its stem goes into the guide precision hole through this jig with a rod to dial indicator: Now indicator is zeroed out. Now put the valve in the female jig. Mic the total length of the valve still in jig. OH I forgot, mic the total length of the first jig to the length of the valve and grind stem as necessary or face valve for say .014 or .012 . I hope this is understandable. I do this on a surface plate. If you or a friend has a lathe this is 101 freshman high school. Aluminum brass or even delvan is fine. Find 'Tubale Cane your Utube shop teacher' on 'what is it' series on Utube couple months ago. He showed one, only two guessed what it is. Also John Edwards "fiat nuzt" on utube sells these..sam

[JSeery]

Looks like John died in 2017:

John Gregory Edwards, 69, passed away on Christmas day 2017 of a massive heart attack. He opened his first auto repair shop, Automobili Prova, when he was in his early 20s. He started teaching with the ROP program in 1984 but decided to concentrate on writing books in 2000. His latest endeavor was Costa Mesa R & D in Costa Mesa CA, which he was still operating at the time of his death. John was a master machinist who will be missed not only by his family but by his customers as well.

[AnotherDay2020]

Thats good advice and info. Where would I source Johnson Hollow Adjustable Radius
Non-Rotating lifters They would be grooved or I could that part myself but the bottom needs to have radius as opposed to flat bottom.

Thanks for the adjusting info,
Mark " Another Day"

[Tim Ayers]

Originally Posted by AnotherDay2020

Thats good advice and info. Where would I source Johnson Hollow Adjustable Radius
Non-Rotating lifters They would be grooved or I could that part myself but the bottom needs to have radius as opposed to flat bottom.

Thanks for the adjusting info,
Mark " Another Day"

For like a Weber or Isky radius lifter cam? From what I gather, one uses a 1" radius and the other 2". I forget which one uses which.

Cam grinder @Pete1 here can do the Isky radius on your adjustable lifters.

[Bored&Stroked]

I've never heard that Pete1 would put the 404A radius on an adjustable - but it may be possible. I've had him do some stock steel ones for me for my 505A cam. Of course there is more to it than the radius, you also have to have the tool to drill the locking wire holes in the lifter bores and you have to install the lock wires. Kind of a pain in the butt, but the 404A is a really good racing cam.

[Tim Ayers]

Originally Posted by Bored&Stroked

I've never heard that Pete1 would put the 404A radius on an adjustable - but it may be possible. I've had him do some stock steel ones for me for my 505A cam. Of course there is more to it than the radius, you also have to have the tool to drill the locking wire holes in the lifter bores and you have to install the lock wires. Kind of a pain in the butt, but the 404A is a really good racing cam.

I could be wrong, but I seem to recall him saying he could, but prefers stock lifters due to weight. Hopefully Pete will chime in.

[Pete]

It is possible to machine the slot in adjustable lifters but I would not do it because they are cast iron and I am sure they would not last one lap.
Isky lifters are 2 inch radius.

[Tim Ayers]

Originally Posted by Pete

It is possible to machine the slot in adjustable lifters but I would not do it because they are cast iron and I am sure they would not last one lap.
Isky lifters are 2 inch radius.

Ah. Thanks, Pete. I guess I was wrong. Thanks for clarifying.

[glennpm]

Originally Posted by glennpm

Regarding, "Holding the lifters from turning even with the bores drilled is still no "fun", this is even mentioned above here by "glennpm", I'm in total agreement with him! I am still working on this here?"

I found that the Johnson tool works fairly well when adjusting such that the lever to the adjacent valve is rotating into it rather than away from it when turning the adjustment nut. I used a couple of pry levers and a large screwdriver to push between the lifter being adjusted and the Johnson tool and thin wrenches. I noticed that especially when the tool was rotating away from the adjacent valve spring, that the ramp on the formed tool was allowing my levers and screwdriver to ride up and away from the down force I needed. I decided cut the ramps off with my Dremel and it worked well allowing me to get the last few stubborn lifters adjusted. In one of my pictures you can see one of the tools of the set with the ramp removed and the other intact. I cut that one off too.
Glenn

A couple of more "pin tools" that I made for holding the lifter barrels when making adjustments