Go Back   The Ford Barn > General Discussion > Model A (1928-31)

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 04-20-2021, 03:32 PM   #21
Russ/40
Senior Member
 
Russ/40's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Santee, California
Posts: 3,505
Default Re: Batt. Supercharger

If the bore was not enlarged for the turbine, i would discount any benefit, but this one takes into account preserving the venturi area. I'd love to try one anyway.
Russ/40 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-20-2021, 03:48 PM   #22
Mountain Dew
Senior Member
 
Mountain Dew's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Newport, NC
Posts: 194
Default Re: Batt. Supercharger

I am concerned about the vanes of the inner cone breaking of and being sucked into the valves and cylinders. They look like they are made from a thin sheet of brass.
Mountain Dew is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)
Old 04-20-2021, 04:14 PM   #23
40 Deluxe
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: now Kuna, Idaho
Posts: 3,774
Default Re: Batt. Supercharger

Quote:
Originally Posted by J Franklin View Post
Are you sure these things don't work? Any proof?

Well, first of all, there is no proof that such gadgets do work. With the "100 MPG carb", the myths are always vague; it seemed that someone's uncle's third cousin's barber heard stories down at the corner bar and the myth grew from there. Wild conspiracy theories are repeated instead of hard facts, no real evidence proves such wild claims!

Heard of the Fish Carburetor? The myth says it was a 100 MPG carb. In reality, the inventor only claimed "up to 20% better fuel mileage". The typical car of the day got maybe 15 MPG; 20 MPG was seldom seen. So it was really a 18-24 MPG carb at best. Tens of thousands were built and sold by the Fish Carburetor Company, and they still show up on ebay so anyone can buy one and test it for themselves. Fish made enough money to sponsor a NASCAR car in the mid-'50's. But he never claimed 100 MPG.



As far as the "HHO" scam goes, it too is unworkable. The claim is that you can use electrical current from the alternator, pass it through a set of metal plates in a jar of water, and make hydrogen as you drive. Supposedly this gives magical fuel economy! Not true! It takes power to get electricity from the alternator. It takes extra gasoline to get the extra power, resulting in a net loss! Don't forget: A car engine is only about 20-25% efficient, and an alternator is 50% efficient at best. So a lot of the gasoline burned is wasted as heat. A gallon of gasoline has about 120,000 Btu's of energy. A gallon-sized container of hydrogen at ambient temperature and pressure contains about 42 Btu's! A typical HHO unit makes 1 to 2 liters of "HHO" a minute. "HHO" is 1/3 oxygen so that leaves 28 Btu's in our gallon of HHO and we only make about 1/2 gallon a minute. So there is not enough "HHO" produced to make any improvement!! It's all smoke and mirrors!
40 Deluxe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-20-2021, 07:01 PM   #24
rotorwrench
Senior Member
 
rotorwrench's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: San Antonio, Texas
Posts: 16,371
Default Re: Batt. Supercharger

Modern fuel injection and electronic ignition all with computer control gets the economy about as good as it gets and same with performance. To put a swirl tube device in the plenum likely doesn't help the vaporization all that much. The amount is likely just above negligible due to the amount of blockage drag there is in there. (One might help a bit while the other affect detracts a bit). It's most likely affect on economy would have been slowing down the fuel mixture to a degree that may have given a slightly better burn. The way a flathead is made, there is already enough chaos going on inside the cylinder to create a good burn but with the low compression, it also loses out a bit on performance.

Now an actual turbocharger might get the performance up a bit but then the economy would likely go down a bit too. It's always a trade off somewhere with these old flat motors.
rotorwrench is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-20-2021, 07:09 PM   #25
Mountain Dew
Senior Member
 
Mountain Dew's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Newport, NC
Posts: 194
Default Re: Batt. Supercharger

BatInstall copy.jpeg
Still no luck with posting picture.
Mountain Dew is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-21-2021, 03:15 AM   #26
Rob Doe
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2021
Location: Central Illinois
Posts: 469
Default Re: Batt. Supercharger

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)
Interesting.
Rob Doe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-21-2021, 07:36 AM   #27
Mountain Dew
Senior Member
 
Mountain Dew's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Newport, NC
Posts: 194
Default Re: Batt. Supercharger

https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/attac...3&d=1558465006
Here is a link from a previous post where I was able to upload a picture.
Mountain Dew is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-21-2021, 07:40 AM   #28
jw hash
Senior Member
 
jw hash's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Auburn Washington
Posts: 2,550
Default Re: Batt. Supercharger

Russ
the hourglass turbine devise just float inside. it looks to me that when the air goes through it, it could rotate. i have always thought it was like the old snake oil salesman. but to me it is just cool to look at.
jw hash is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-21-2021, 10:02 AM   #29
Russ/40
Senior Member
 
Russ/40's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Santee, California
Posts: 3,505
Default Re: Batt. Supercharger

If it actually spins, you would think it would make quite a racket.

Would someone send one to me for testing
Russ/40 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-21-2021, 11:12 AM   #30
Mountain Dew
Senior Member
 
Mountain Dew's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Newport, NC
Posts: 194
Default Re: Batt. Supercharger

Would the extra length of the manifold have an effect? Sort of the same theory of a high rise manifold. I don't see any notable performance from an original manifold.
Mountain Dew is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-21-2021, 12:21 PM   #31
Patrick L.
Senior Member
 
Patrick L.'s Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Largo Florida
Posts: 7,225
Default Re: Batt. Supercharger

I doubt the 'turbine' rotates. I think its suppose to sit there and get the fuel/air charge to spin as the charge passes thru it and enhance the flow/charge into the cylinders.
The manifold design could in itself [without the turbine] enhance the cylinder charging.
If I had one I think I'd leave out the turbine.
Patrick L. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-21-2021, 06:29 PM   #32
rotorwrench
Senior Member
 
rotorwrench's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: San Antonio, Texas
Posts: 16,371
Default Re: Batt. Supercharger

It would cause a swirl or vortex in the air/fuel flow. My problem with it is the hour glass shape would redirect the vortex and hinder the flow more. A plain swirl tube would likely have been more effective but even that may hinder the mixture from staying in a good vaporized state. Some of the vapor may form into larger droplets instead of a nice even vapor flow.

These type of things were also developed for OHV engines as well and all it would really do is allow for a bit slower burn in the cylinder. This might reduce detonation but it won't do much for performance.
rotorwrench is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-23-2021, 11:19 AM   #33
katy
Senior Member
 
katy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Red Deer, Alberta
Posts: 5,011
Default Re: Batt. Supercharger

Here's another attempt at "fuel/air enhancement", this was for the flathead V8s:
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Fuel enhancer.JPG (111.3 KB, 65 views)
__________________
If you don't hear a rumor by 10 AM, start one!.
Got my education out behind the barn!
katy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-23-2021, 02:29 PM   #34
Jack Shaft
BANNED
 
Join Date: Dec 2019
Posts: 1,196
Default Re: Batt. Supercharger

Quote:
Originally Posted by 40 Deluxe View Post
Well, first of all, there is no proof that such gadgets do work. With the "100 MPG carb", the myths are always vague; it seemed that someone's uncle's third cousin's barber heard stories down at the corner bar and the myth grew from there. Wild conspiracy theories are repeated instead of hard facts, no real evidence proves such wild claims!

Heard of the Fish Carburetor? The myth says it was a 100 MPG carb. In reality, the inventor only claimed "up to 20% better fuel mileage". The typical car of the day got maybe 15 MPG; 20 MPG was seldom seen. So it was really a 18-24 MPG carb at best. Tens of thousands were built and sold by the Fish Carburetor Company, and they still show up on ebay so anyone can buy one and test it for themselves. Fish made enough money to sponsor a NASCAR car in the mid-'50's. But he never claimed 100 MPG.





As far as the "HHO" scam goes, it too is unworkable. The claim is that you can use electrical current from the alternator, pass it through a set of metal plates in a jar of water, and make hydrogen as you drive. Supposedly this gives magical fuel economy! Not true! It takes power to get electricity from the alternator. It takes extra gasoline to get the extra power, resulting in a net loss! Don't forget: A car engine is only about 20-25% efficient, and an alternator is 50% efficient at best. So a lot of the gasoline burned is wasted as heat. A gallon of gasoline has about 120,000 Btu's of energy. A gallon-sized container of hydrogen at ambient temperature and pressure contains about 42 Btu's! A typical HHO unit makes 1 to 2 liters of "HHO" a minute. "HHO" is 1/3 oxygen so that leaves 28 Btu's in our gallon of HHO and we only make about 1/2 gallon a minute. So there is not enough "HHO" produced to make any improvement!! It's all smoke and mirrors!

The browns gas generator actually works, a friend powered his Vw beetle with it. The car did burn to the ground from and electrical fire,and the generator was ungainly...but I saw it with my own highly skeptical eyes..
Jack Shaft is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-24-2021, 03:53 PM   #35
40 Deluxe
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: now Kuna, Idaho
Posts: 3,774
Default Re: Batt. Supercharger

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack Shaft View Post
The browns gas generator actually works, a friend powered his Vw beetle with it. The car did burn to the ground from and electrical fire,and the generator was ungainly...but I saw it with my own highly skeptical eyes..

Did his fuel mileage improve any?
40 Deluxe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-25-2021, 10:31 AM   #36
40 Deluxe
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: now Kuna, Idaho
Posts: 3,774
Default Re: Batt. Supercharger

Quote:
Originally Posted by 40 Deluxe View Post
Did his fuel mileage improve any?



From the comment about the "ungainly" generator, I assume it was significantly larger than stock. Which means it took more power from the engine to spin it. Using more power means using more gasoline. The result is a net loss! While he no doubt made some "Brown's gas", it would not be enough to offset the extra gasoline used to produce it.
Wishful thinking does not replace science!
40 Deluxe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-26-2021, 12:42 PM   #37
Flathead
Senior Member
 
Flathead's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Southern Maine
Posts: 1,493
Default Re: Batt. Supercharger

Isn't there some law of physics that says "energy can neither be created or destroyed"?
Or simply stated, no free lunch.
Flathead is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-26-2021, 01:03 PM   #38
alexiskai
Senior Member
 
alexiskai's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: Mebane NC
Posts: 2,332
Default Re: Batt. Supercharger

This might be just confusion of terms... in most cases you wouldn't put the HHO generator itself in the car. You generate the HHO via AC power and then you keep the HHO in an onboard tank. So it's basically a CNG conversion.
alexiskai is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-26-2021, 02:56 PM   #39
40 Deluxe
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: now Kuna, Idaho
Posts: 3,774
Default Re: Batt. Supercharger

Quote:
Originally Posted by alexiskai View Post
This might be just confusion of terms... in most cases you wouldn't put the HHO generator itself in the car. You generate the HHO via AC power and then you keep the HHO in an onboard tank. So it's basically a CNG conversion.

No, I don't think so! It takes a very special (very expensive) compressor to reach the high pressures needed to store enough hydrogen to get out of your driveway. And special high pressure tanks that won't be damaged by hydrogen embrittlement. Since hydrogen has such low energy density. the tanks needed would be huge.
Actually, the "HHO" systems in common use are on-board generators that only make miniscule amounts of hydrogen as you drive, using the vehicle's alternator for the electricity needed.
This scam seems to have died out in recent years, but just wait until gas goes over $4 a gallon again!
40 Deluxe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-26-2021, 04:19 PM   #40
woofa.express
Senior Member
 
woofa.express's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: Tocumwal, NSW, Australia
Posts: 1,745
Default Re: Batt. Supercharger

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack Shaft View Post
The browns gas generator actually works, a friend powered his Vw beetle with it. The car did burn to the ground from and electrical fire,and the generator was ungainly...but I saw it with my own highly skeptical eyes..
Morning Jack Shaft.

You have confused me. So it does work or doesn't it work??
__________________
I know many things,
But I don't know everything,
Sometimes I forget things.

And there are times when I have a long memory.
woofa.express is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:35 PM.