Freshly Rebuilt 59AB Help Needed, Near end of my Rope

[GOSFAST]

There's some type issue with the cam journal dimensions and the cam brg clearance numbers??

Can't say exactly why from here, but the journals are way above the high limit and the clearance is also. Something doesn't sound right!

If possible I would try to come up with an accurate cam hsg bore number also! This would require a bore gauge. These holes should be 1.9275" (low) to 1.9285" (high). We find them mostly on the high limit almost always!

Thanks, Gary in N.Y.

P.S. The cam journals should be 1.796" (low) to 1.797" (high)? I have a bunch of OEM cams here and ALL are in that range, One specific on the bench now measures 1.7965" exactly!

[JM 35 Sedan]

I had checked for the gallery plug behind the timing gear before I first pulled the oil pan...it is in place.

Do you know if it is the correct plug originally used by Ford when they built the engine? The original plugs that I have removed from '35 to '48 engines had a slotted head, ~ 1/4" of threads, and then a non threaded cylindrical projection on the front that was also ~ 1/4" long.

[29AVEE8]

Just asking. What was the combination of crank undersize and bearing oversize to make this work? Somebody had to know this was wrong.

[anothercarguy]

Originally Posted by petehoovie

@anothercarguy - I like your style....

Thanks.

Originally Posted by Matt in Alameda

Wow, Anothercarguy,... this was a great thread to follow. It seemed almost like a barn raising.....a bunch of people coming together to fix a major problem. I hope everything goes smoothly from here. The Barn is such a great site..( Thank-you Ryan)...good luck to you the rest of the way! ...Matt in Alameda

Thanks and well said!

Originally Posted by JM 35 Sedan

Do you know if it is the correct plug originally used by Ford when they built the engine? The original plugs that I have removed from '35 to '48 engines had a slotted head, ~ 1/4" of threads, and then a non threaded cylindrical projection on the front that was also ~ 1/4" long.

The plugs (front and rear) had a slotted head screw into some sort of plug/cylinder...so based on your description, they sound like they are original (I didn't remove them).

Originally Posted by 29AVEE8

Just asking. What was the combination of crank undersize and bearing oversize to make this work? Somebody had to know this was wrong.

The mains were turned .010" and rods .020". Based on the following...the journal sizes seem pretty much interchangeable from '46-53.

http://www.vanpeltsales.com/FH_web/f...ring-specs.htm

I don't know whether someone new about the error or not. I bought the package from a friend (and we remain friends). He had the work done by a guy he met at the Portland swap meet who sold him a good (non-cracked) factory relieved block, and some other flathead parts. As they began chatting, the fellow offered to help my friend (my friend was about 79 years old at the time) by assembling the engine for him. My friend, a year later (then 80 years old) decided he wasn't going to be able finish the project and offered it to me. There was certainly no malicious intent on the part of my buddy, he paid for work that he thought had been done well.

My block and parts are now at the machine shop. I hope to get them back as soon as possible to resume the project (but I know how busy this one man shop is... he specializes in flatheads and hemi's...along with building land speed cars, and runs his own mid 7 second copy of the '34 Sharp Mooneyham drag coupe).

[Bored&Stroked]

Glad you found it - a combination that looks like it works, but obviously has the wrong number of oil holes in the wrong places. Putting a 49-53 crank in it is the easiest fix and you might be able to use your existing rod bearings. Welcome to out flathead world - glad you have the interest in working through problems!

[chuck stevens]

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I'm glad things worked out. I have always run into trouble when you assume something is what it's supposed to be, with out checking. Happy motoring, Chuck S

[JM 35 Sedan]

Originally Posted by anothercarguy

The plugs (front and rear) had a slotted head screw into some sort of plug/cylinder...so based on your description, they sound like they are original (I didn't remove them).
My block and parts are now at the machine shop. I hope to get them back as soon as possible to resume the project (but I know how busy this one man shop is... he specializes in flatheads and hemi's...along with building land speed cars, and runs his own mid 7 second copy of the '34 Sharp Mooneyham drag coupe).

Only the front oil galley plug is as described in my previous post. The rear oil galley plug does not have the extra projection and has larger thread diameter as compared to the front plug. It might be prudent for you, or whoever is working on this engine now, to remove and check those plugs to make sure they are the correct ones. Just saying...leave no stone unturned!

☆Edit/Correction to the above post: The front oil galley plug is smaller in diameter at the threads than the rear oil galley plug, so the front plug could not be used in the rear. I realized this today when getting a set of front and rear galley plug together to send to a fellow Fordbarner. The above post will be changed to reflect.this correction.

[anothercarguy]

Originally Posted by JM 35 Sedan

Only the front galley plug is as described in my previous post. The rear galley plug does not have the extra projection. It is consieveable that the previous engine builder unknowingly switched those plugs end for end, and the plug with the extra projection could be in the rear galley plug hole, possibly blocking some oil flow. Much crazier things have happened. It might be prudent for you, or whoever is working on engine now, to remove and check those plugs to make sure they are the correct ones, and in their correct location. Just saying...leave no stone unturned!

Good tip...will do. Thanks.

[George/Maine]

You could be loosing oil pressure if the endplay is to much when mixing and regrinding the crank. The endplay for rods is .010 max in 1951 it was changed to .020 and the mains is .002 to .006 worn rod width and regrind side rub could be to much.

[anothercarguy]

Ok, I know this thread is over a month old, but for the sake of those that followed it and were very helpful in making suggestions I thought I would give an update of the total of my findings (now that the motor is re-assembled and running smoothly and quietly...as it should).

This motor was an example of some really nice parts assembled poorly (or without the due diligence normally associated with a performance engine build. My mistake was assuming that it had all been carefully checked when the PO (and his engine guy)initially assembled (yet another lesson learned the hard way)!

So, I already mentioned the distributor bolts that were too long and hit the cam gear, and of course there was the 59AB crankshaft with the 49-53 rods that created the oiling issue to begin with. Other findings and sources for the cacophony of noise that emanated from this motor...the heads of the bolts that held the flywheel where too tall and made contact with the springs in the clutch plate (bolt heads were cut down on my lathe to correct)...the electrodes on the Autolite 4316 sparkplugs where flattened after having made contact with the valves (replaced with NGK B4L's...that were indexed with washers such that the electrodes were vertical and between the valves)...and finally the original Eddie Meyer heads required significant carving out (and re-polishing) in the combustion chambers as they were contacting a number of pistons and valves (especially as the engine warmed up and parts began expanding, I assume someone back in the day must have milled the heads).

Anyway, it's all running as it should now...and I can tidy up the shop after the thrash and prepare to work on upholstery.

Thanks all again, Tim

[Tim Ayers]

Originally Posted by anothercarguy

Ok, I know this thread is over a month old, but for the sake of those that followed it and were very helpful in making suggestions I thought I would give an update of the total of my findings (now that the motor is re-assembled and running smoothly and quietly...as it should).

This motor was an example of some really nice parts assembled poorly (or without the due diligence normally associated with a performance engine build. My mistake was assuming that it had all been carefully checked when the PO (and his engine guy)initially assembled (yet another lesson learned the hard way)!

So, I already mentioned the distributor bolts that were too long and hit the cam gear, and of course there was the 59AB crankshaft with the 49-53 rods that created the oiling issue to begin with. Other findings and sources for the cacophony of noise that emanated from this motor...the heads of the bolts that held the flywheel where too tall and made contact with the springs in the clutch plate (bolt heads were cut down on my lathe to correct)...the electrodes on the Autolite 4316 sparkplugs where flattened after having made contact with the valves (replaced with NGK B4L's...that were indexed with washers such that the electrodes were vertical and between the valves)...and finally the original Eddie Meyer heads required significant carving out (and re-polishing) in the combustion chambers as they were contacting a number of pistons and valves (especially as the engine warmed up and parts began expanding, I assume someone back in the day must have milled the heads).

Anyway, it's all running as it should now...and I can tidy up the shop after the thrash and prepare to work on upholstery.

Thanks all again, Tim

Wow, what an ordeal. Glad it all worked out. Another reason to be weary of an already built flathead. I guess you truely don't know what you are getting unless you hear it run or see it all apart.

Best of luck with the motor.

[Mart]

Thanks for the update. I'm glad you have ironed out all the problems.

Mart.

[prpmmp]

Isn't this stuff fun!!!! You did good!! Congrats!! Pete

[Bored&Stroked]

Nice Job Tim! You stuck with it until the problem was truly identified - that was key to the whole thing. I've seen a lot of folks quit, punt or come to false conclusions on stuff like this - once you find it, it all makes sense. You'll have a good running engine now!

[JSeery]

Thanks for providing the feedback!