The Ford Barn

Jonnyenglish · 10-04-2014, 02:12 AM

Hi,

Im looking at getting a new higher comp head for my newly bought 30 sport coupe. Il need to get the head shipped to the UK.

I see that Snyders to their own branded head but also sell a Thomas head (which is more expensive) I will spend the extra if its worth it.

What are the differences and which would you rate higher?

Im new to all this, so apologies if its been covered before.

Thanks

juke joint johnny · 10-04-2014, 02:58 AM

Welcome to the Barn
Where in the Uk are you ? You might be around the corner from another Barner !!

Charlie Stephens · 10-04-2014, 03:40 AM

I am not familiar with the exact heads but be sure to check to see if there is enough room over the pistons if yours pop up over the top of the block. I know this was a problem (please don't ask how I know) with the original Thomas heads. I assume the Snyder head has a recess over the piston like a Model A "Police" head.

Charlie Stephens

colin1928 · 10-04-2014, 04:22 AM

I have used both heads if you want a head that looks original and gives a little more power the Synder is the go
the Thomas will give even more power has higher compression better chamber shape modern metric spark plugs and as you can see looks like a performance head
the Thomas has very thick deck so can be milled for even higher compression
they are fly cut so piston clearance not a problem
Colin

BRENT in 10-uh-C · 10-04-2014, 04:54 AM

This also depends on which Snyder iron head you are after. Their iron 6:1 head has a better chamber design that was 'flogged' by Bill Stipe.

Jonnyenglish · 10-04-2014, 09:33 AM

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Quote:

Originally Posted by juke joint johnny

Welcome to the Barn
Where in the Uk are you ? You might be around the corner from another Barner !!

Hello, im only in East Sussex so im guessing quite close! Thanks for the welcome.

Jonnyenglish · 10-04-2014, 09:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BRENT in 10-uh-C

This also depends on which Snyder iron head you are after. Their iron 6:1 head has a better chamber design that was 'flogged' by Bill Stipe.

Yes I was looking at the 6:1 Snyder ( I should have been more specific) and the Thomas 6.7:1.

Purdy Swoft · 10-04-2014, 09:44 AM

I would choose the Snyder cast iron 6:1 head . The Thomas aluminum head may give more power but aluminum has a different expansion rate than cast iron and will sooner or later give more gasket problems. Also aluminum has a tendency to stick to the steel head studs because of disimilar metal reaction. This can be a problem when the head needs to be removed . It may look cool but I always avoid aluminum parts when I have a choice . Aluminum doesn't hold up as well as cast iron .

Jonnyenglish · 10-04-2014, 09:56 AM

Well I guess I was heading towards the Thomas.....but very valid point by Purdy Swoft...still open to any other experiences or views though.

MikeK · 10-04-2014, 10:07 AM

I guess that depends on your intentions. Both Snyder heads look stock, the Thomas definitely has a hot-rod look to it. In addition to the aluminum problems Purdy listed above, you will probably need to run a magnesium sacrificial anode or at least use an OAT antifreeze.

Jonnyenglish · 10-04-2014, 10:48 AM

I do like the look of the non standard head (although would choose performance over looks)....Seems there is more choice than I first thought, now I see there is Lion and Winfield, although just searched about the Lion and maybe we shouldnt go there again unless anyone has real positives??
Educate me!

CarlG · 10-04-2014, 12:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BRENT in 10-uh-C

This also depends on which Snyder iron head you are after. Their iron 6:1 head has a better chamber design that was 'flogged' by Bill Stipe.

???

Purdy Swoft · 10-04-2014, 01:06 PM

Heads with compression that is very much over 6:1 won't have mild manners for street use and drivability in general. In other words , if you don't use a distributor with automatic advance you will need to keep one hand on the spark lever quite a bit to avoid timing knocks and bucking & lugging.

The Lion head is the heaviest built with machined combustion chambers . The Lion head has been reported to give less problems with gasket failure in the center on a recent head gasket thread here. I don't think that the weight of the Lion head would be a problem. I feel that the extra weight of the head will just add strength and durability. A new cast iron Winfield head may soon be available .

Jonnyenglish · 10-04-2014, 01:13 PM

And thankyou again..Lots of excellent info here. Good to hear all your views, always want to spend wisely!

hardtimes · 10-04-2014, 03:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jonnyenglish

I do like the look of the non standard head (although would choose performance over looks)....Seems there is more choice than I first thought, now I see there is Lion and Winfield, although just searched about the Lion and maybe we shouldnt go there again unless anyone has real positives??
Educate me!

Hey Jonny,
Most of the comments that you refer to about the lion head are IMO, from people repeating gossip and NOT from personal use / experience. If you get a chance to buy a Lion Speed Head 111, I'd go with that. It is HEAVY cast iron and makes good power at 7:1 and has real thick deck for further strength/milling if you wish. I let mine go and now wish that I hadn't.

As said, the Thomas head is aluminum, but that shouldn't stop your using it. It is a WELL built head and the guys that I know that run that head all say good about the power that it makes. Like you've discovered...there is a great choice of heads out there. And, if you do not know, a member here TOD, is in the process of making an IRON Winfield with best head design placement that he can determine. Contact Tod here at the Fordbarn. He will make various comp ratios, to make all happy. Good luck

Charlie Stephens · 10-04-2014, 11:08 PM

Jonny,

Be very careful if you buy the Thomas head. It can be dangerous to your bank account. After the head arrives you will realize that you “need” a “Thomas)” intake manifold to go with it (try to explain that to your wife). The original manifolds were two 2 barrels and that is all I have ever seen. They periodically show up for sale. I have seen a reproduction of the 2 barrel manifold. It appears to be the same as the original except the name “Thomas” appears twice on the flange between the two carburetors instead of once in the center. I have seen a couple of I believe “reproduction” manifolds that were made for three 2 barrels. I doubt they ran very well unless one of them was a fake. Be sure to check for clearance problems with the hood as the manifold had a long gently slope (anyone out there running a “Thomas” manifold?) . Of course you must have Stromberg 81 carbs (a very expensive carb that came on the Ford V8 60). Next you need a side plate. There was never one made originally by Thomas ( you may need to settle for a "no name" one) but I believe Dan Price made one for the Model B engines in the 1980’s and this mold probably went with the mold for the head that was passed down over the years. I have never seen an original or “reproduction” side plate for the Model A. Of course water inlets and outlets need to be cast, polished aluminum. If you have an aluminum fan (and you should anyway) it would look good polished. I wonder if you could get a lower water inlet pipe in stainless (from Aries?) and polish it.

Finally you need to buy several pairs of dark glasses for you and your friends to wear when opening your hood. I took the attached photo at the last LA Roadster Show. I currently have an original “Thomas” head and intake manifold that I intend to run in the future.

Charlie Stephens

pat in Santa Cruz · 10-04-2014, 11:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Purdy Swoft

I would choose the Snyder cast iron 6:1 head . The Thomas aluminum head may give more power but aluminum has a different expansion rate than cast iron and will sooner or later give more gasket problems. Also aluminum has a tendency to stick to the steel head studs because of disimilar metal reaction. This can be a problem when the head needs to be removed . It may look cool but I always avoid aluminum parts when I have a choice . Aluminum doesn't hold up as well as cast iron .

this has been my experience as well.

Jonnyenglish · 10-05-2014, 08:13 AM

Ok, well thanks to all the comments, il have a think about which to go for (at this moment really not sure still) and also find out shipping charges and go from there.

BRENT in 10-uh-C · 10-05-2014, 08:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CarlG

???

Just that, during which he initial design stages of this, Bill dyno-tested this head playing with chamber configurations and plug locations to make it better. If I recall correctly, moving the plug location a tad would have yielded even better performance but the decision to retain the 'stock-appearing' location was chosen.

southfork · 10-05-2014, 10:54 AM

What is the price range on the Snyder 6.1 and the Thomas (and also the anticipated Winfield)? Haven't ever looked into buying a high compression head, but now I'm wondering.

Purdy Swoft · 10-05-2014, 11:30 AM

The Snyder 6:1 cast iron head is offered for $325.00 . The Thomas aluminum 6:7 head is offered for $525.00 . There is a $200.00 difference in price . I don't think that a price has yet been mentioned for the new Winfield cast iron head that is in the works now. It is my understanding that the cast iron winfield will be offered in both 6:1 and 7:1 compression ratios with two different variations in the combustion chambers.

Juggler · 10-05-2014, 11:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jonnyenglish

Ok, well thanks to all the comments, il have a think about which to go for (at this moment really not sure still) and also find out shipping charges and go from there.

Hey Jonny

A little closer to home you could give Gary at Belcher Engineering a call - they are near Bury St Edmunds in Suffolk. He's usually got a few speed parts in stock. The number is 01379 890913

Cheers

Juggs

Jonnyenglish · 10-05-2014, 12:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Juggler

Hey Jonny

A little closer to home you could give Gary at Belcher Engineering a call - they are near Bury St Edmunds in Suffolk. He's usually got a few speed parts in stock. The number is 01379 890913

Cheers

Juggs

Excellent thankyou Juggs, I will do that in the morning. Wow Arizona and Bath, sounds good!

Juggler · 10-05-2014, 02:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jonnyenglish

Wow Arizona and Bath, sounds good!

Best of both worlds maybe

Their close ratio gear sets are worth checking out also

http://www.belcherengineering.co.uk/...tion/index.php

Tod · 10-05-2014, 03:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Purdy Swoft

The Snyder 6:1 cast iron head is offered for $325.00 . The Thomas aluminum 6:7 head is offered for $525.00 . There is a $200.00 difference in price . I don't think that a price has yet been mentioned for the new Winfield cast iron head that is in the works now. It is my understanding that the cast iron winfield will be offered in both 6:1 and 7:1 compression ratios with two different variations in the combustion chambers.

I'm looking at the $400.00 range.

As for the Thomas heads, I have 65 new castings in the shop to machine for Snyder. The only part I play in that product is machining them. I also machine the intakes mentioned in this thread.

Tod

Juggler · 10-05-2014, 03:05 PM

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Really looking forward to the new Winfields Tod

Can I have number 1?

pcup · 10-05-2014, 03:43 PM

BRENT, I'M NOT ABLE TO BRING PRIOR COMENTS BY CARL G, WHO ARE U REFERING TO AS [BILL] AND WHICH HEAD. I'M IN So Cal JUST RETURNED FROM COLORADO AND THE "C" HEAD JUST DIDN'T CUT IT AFTER 6 K ELEVATION. I WILL MOVE THERE SHORTLY SO I ALSO WILL NEED ANOTHER HEAD.
PCUP

southfork · 10-05-2014, 03:58 PM

Just as a point of reference, what is the compression ration on the original Ford Model B cast iron head? Also the original Model A cast iron head? Also, What do used Model B heads typically sell for?

As mentioned in another thread recently, I picked up a cast iron head that appears to have smaller combustion chambers, compared to Ford Model A cast iron heads. Anybody have any idea what it is? It has USA cast into the top center of the head.

southfork · 10-05-2014, 04:07 PM

Here's a comparison of the combustion chambers of the two heads pictured above. What are they?

Purdy Swoft · 10-05-2014, 05:02 PM

The original Model B head used a three bolt water pump, had a large letter C embossed in the top near the distributor and used the improved heart shaped combustion chamber with a compression ratio of 4.6:1 . The original model A head had a compression ratio of 4.2:1. There was a model A head with normal water pump, A large letter B embossed near the distributor with a compression ratio of 5.2:1 This head is often reffered to as the police head.

The heads pictured show that the top picture appears to be the standard 4.2:1 compression. The bottom picture shows the heart shaped combustion chamber. This is an aftermarket replacement and probably has a ratio , anywhere from 5.2 to 6.1 Its impossible to say for sure withoun measuring the CCs in the combustion chambers

southfork · 10-05-2014, 06:21 PM

I appreciate that comprehensive information about Ford cast iron heads, Purdy. That aftermarket head and the Model A head were part of a stash of Model A and Model T heads that some lady dumped off at the local iron recycling yard a while back. Fortunately, I was there to intercept them.

Purdy Swoft · 10-05-2014, 08:40 PM

Good find !!! The head with the heart shaped combustion chamber will make a noticable improvement in power and hill climbing ability .

hotrodalley · 10-05-2014, 09:22 PM

I have had really good luck with the Thomas head. I have over 10,000 miles on mine and enjoy the extra performance. I have learned to manually adjust the timing as I am running a stock distributor. Someday I might spring for a centrifugal advance setup, but I'm ok for now. I have a Snyder 5.5 on one of my other cars, and it is ok, but there is just something about the looks of the Thomas head - especially with dual downdraft carbs.

southfork · 10-05-2014, 11:25 PM

Hotrodalley, Doesn't the Model B distributor have the centrifugal advance? There should be quite a few of them around, I would think, and that's just about a drop in.

Jonnyenglish · 10-06-2014, 10:31 AM

Right, someone on a Uk forum says "go for a winfield" so I searched and reds headers comes up with an aluminium head, is there a iron head avaliable to buy now as I cant find by searching? Any ideas? I understand they are in the pipeline as talked about above but just want a bit more info please.

hardtimes · 10-06-2014, 12:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jonnyenglish

Right, someone on a Uk forum says "go for a winfield" so I searched and reds headers comes up with an aluminium head, is there a iron head avaliable to buy now as I cant find by searching? Any ideas? I understand they are in the pipeline as talked about above but just want a bit more info please.

As said in my comment above, contact a member here...Tod for information. It is my understanding that WHEN he makes his cast iron Winfield head replacements, that he will make combustion ratios that suit most anyone. So, you get on his 'list' (good thing,eh

) you let him know what c/r you want. IMO, is worth waiting for, as I have a nice alum Super Winfield, but want iron of proper c/r. As to reason...a friend of Winfield told me that Winfield said something to the effect that iron makes power and alum is for cooking/looks ! I think that I understand this, a bit, and am patiently waiting for Tod

!!

BTW...I also mentioned the IRON Lion Speed Head 111 , as an available iron head..if you can not wait. I think that the current edition MAY be a IV now ?

Jonnyenglish · 10-06-2014, 12:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hardtimes

As said in my comment above, contact a member here...Tod for information. It is my understanding that WHEN he makes his cast iron Winfield head replacements, that he will make combustion ratios that suit most anyone. So, you get on his 'list' (good thing,eh

) you let him know what c/r you want. IMO, is worth waiting for, as I have a nice alum Super Winfield, but want iron of proper c/r. As to reason...a friend of Winfield told me that Winfield said something to the effect that iron makes power and alum is for cooking/looks ! I think that I understand this, a bit, and am patiently waiting for Tod

!!

BTW...I also mentioned the IRON Lion Speed Head 111 , as an available iron head..if you can not wait. I think that the current edition MAY be a IV now ?

Thanks, I think im getting somewhere now as preferably want cast iron and have heard lots of good about winfield, so I will do as you say and see if I can get on the list...Cheers

Jonnyenglish · 10-10-2014, 12:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hardtimes

As said in my comment above, contact a member here...Tod for information. It is my understanding that WHEN he makes his cast iron Winfield head replacements, that he will make combustion ratios that suit most anyone. So, you get on his 'list' (good thing,eh

) you let him know what c/r you want. IMO, is worth waiting for, as I have a nice alum Super Winfield, but want iron of proper c/r. As to reason...a friend of Winfield told me that Winfield said something to the effect that iron makes power and alum is for cooking/looks ! I think that I understand this, a bit, and am patiently waiting for Tod

!!

BTW...I also mentioned the IRON Lion Speed Head 111 , as an available iron head..if you can not wait. I think that the current edition MAY be a IV now ?

I have made a decision to go for the Snyder 6:1, I never heard back from Tod about the cast winfields, maybe hes away, but want to get going, the Lion and Thomas cost a lot more. I phoned a place in the UK which was not very helpful, they had a copy of a winfield which they called a wingfield?? but said it was as good, but still still wanted top $$, so I think my only opton is the snyder - and they were great at returning an email about shipping and seemed very helpful, customer services definately pays off!

hardtimes · 10-10-2014, 09:56 PM

Hey Jonny,
Well, you figured ONE thing out well, i.e.- that Snyders service to customers is GREAT

!

The other two things...cost and availability...not so much ! An old saying about cost applies here. And , good things come to those who wait is also somewhat true. BTW...I believe that TOD machines those Snyder sold heads, so youse just may have made full circle on that (Tod) anyway. If 5:1 head meets your needs, go for it ! Good luck.

southfork · 10-12-2014, 10:59 PM

What would be a fair price for a used after market high-compression head with the "B" style water pump bolt pattern? I'm going to look at the used head tomorrow. The owner took it and the 'B' water pump off a recently rebuilt insert-bearing banger. He's asking $100 for the head and also $100 for the 'B' water pump if I want it. I asked him why he took it off, and he said it's too hard on the engine to have that much compression, and because it's too hard to crank over with that much compression.

I wont know the manufacturer of the head until I see it --- assuming that the manufacturer has marked it with the name.

Pete · 10-13-2014, 12:29 AM

Too hard to crank with the starter is the biggest crock I have ever heard.
Beware of that guy.
I have run B engines with 11 to 1 compression on alcohol and they start right up on the starter just like a stock engine.

hb32 · 10-13-2014, 12:30 AM

Any new info on the new cast Winfield ?

BRENT in 10-uh-C · 10-13-2014, 06:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by forever4

It will be interesting to see what you find. There are almost no high compression heads made for the Model B water pump.

I am only aware of three that were ever made, all in the 1930s and 40s, all cast iron, and all made outside the USA.

Vince, at Hershey this year, Dan Price had a new flathead on his table that had the 3-bolt water pump. I did not inquire about it but I suppose you can addition to that admittedly small list.

southfork · 10-13-2014, 01:05 PM

Now I'm really curious as to WHY there weren't a lot of high compression aftermarket heads made with the bolt pattern for the B water pump. Today, it seems that lots of guys are trying to get top performance out of there bangers, and that B Bangers are quite popular. Wasn't that always the case, given the improvements in that engine over the 'A'?

Anyway, now I'm a bit skeptical about that "aftermarket high-compression" head that I'm going to see later today. It's probably a Ford Model B head, although the guy said that he didn't think that it was made by Ford.

southfork · 10-13-2014, 06:30 PM

The referenced "high Compression head" that I looked at this afternoon has me a bit uncertain. It has a large "C" cast on the top of the head, but doesn't say Ford anywhere. Instead, it has "3M" inside a rectangle, and right below that is a cast designation "M-6050". Elsewhere on the top of the head, it has what looks like a screw head casting followed by 16-255. Finally, it takes spark plugs of a smaller base diameter than Model A spark plugs. Anybody have any idea who made this Model B style head, and whether it's a desirable head?

southfork · 10-13-2014, 08:34 PM

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Thanks, forever4. I guess it's about the same as a Ford-made Model B then, compression-wize. Probably worth the $100 the sellers is asking.

31Tudor · 10-14-2014, 08:17 AM

I have been running the Thomas 7 to 1 head on my speedster for going on 16 years. I have 9,000 miles on everything. Runs great!

Dodge · 10-14-2014, 03:36 PM

Another thing to consider is that this car is in the U.K. and could have the smaller cubic
inch displacement motor in it. If it does you could be lowering the compression by
putting on an aftermarket head. If so you may want to go to a U.S. spec motor.
Does any one know the chamber cc's for the smaller displacement motor?

CarlG · 10-14-2014, 03:41 PM

I read somewhere that the small engine was 2.2L while the US model is 3.3L

Jonnyenglish · 10-15-2014, 10:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dodge

Another thing to consider is that this car is in the U.K. and could have the smaller cubic
inch displacement motor in it. If it does you could be lowering the compression by
putting on an aftermarket head. If so you may want to go to a U.S. spec motor.
Does any one know the chamber cc's for the smaller displacement motor?

Good knowledge! Luckily its a U.S motor!

Gabalus · 04-13-2015, 10:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CarlG

I read somewhere that the small engine was 2.2L while the US model is 3.3L

The small UK (and therefore european) engine has a displacement of 2043 cc and the standard engine ( US and european ) 3285 cc.
1928-31 Model AF makes 28hp (at approx 2600 rpm ? ) but 1932 model BF (or ANF) 40hp (at approx 3100 rpm ? ).
The model BF is quite different with its valves which move (tilted) near cylinders. Two effects of this : little combustion chambers and more water around combustion chambers and intake/exhaust.

Why not make an HC head for these engines ?...

1929 · 04-13-2015, 10:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jonnyenglish

Hi,

Im looking at getting a new higher comp head for my newly bought 30 sport coupe. Il need to get the head shipped to the UK.

I see that Snyders to their own branded head but also sell a Thomas head (which is more expensive) I will spend the extra if its worth it.

What are the differences and which would you rate higher?

Im new to all this, so apologies if its been covered before.

Thanks

Iam trying to make the same decision, which head, Snyders 6-1 $325 or Lion 3 $569, I prefer the 6-1 cause it looks better, but would like a 7-1, just wish that new 7-1 cast iron by Tod was out next month cause that would make my decision.

Tod · 04-14-2015, 06:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1929

Iam trying to make the same decision, which head, Snyders 6-1 $325 or Lion 3 $569, I prefer the 6-1 cause it looks better, but would like a 7-1, just wish that new 7-1 cast iron by Tod was out next month cause that would make my decision.

Depending on how the core shop does, it just might be.

Tod

waxhead · 04-14-2015, 06:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tod

Depending on how the core shop does, it just might be.

Tod

Woo hoo, great news

1929 · 04-14-2015, 09:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tod

Depending on how the core shop does, it just might be.

Tod

great news, my mind is made up!

Jonnyenglish · 04-14-2015, 11:23 AM

Now that is good news - lets hope all goes to plan, i would love to have the new head fitted for pendine sands this year. Fingers crossed.

My original post was between thomas and snyder, but once i was aware of Tods Winfield my mind was made up.

hardtimes · 04-14-2015, 11:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1929

great news, my mind is made up!

Good thinking, smart move and good news...indeed

10-04-2014, 02:12 AM	#1
Jonnyenglish Member Join Date: Sep 2014 Location: united Kingdom Posts: 58	Snyder or Thomas head Hi, Im looking at getting a new higher comp head for my newly bought 30 sport coupe. Il need to get the head shipped to the UK. I see that Snyders to their own branded head but also sell a Thomas head (which is more expensive) I will spend the extra if its worth it. What are the differences and which would you rate higher? Im new to all this, so apologies if its been covered before. Thanks

10-04-2014, 02:58 AM	#2
juke joint johnny Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: London England Posts: 908	Re: Snyder or Thomas head Welcome to the Barn Where in the Uk are you ? You might be around the corner from another Barner !!

10-04-2014, 03:40 AM	#3
Charlie Stephens Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Southern California Posts: 7,032	Re: Snyder or Thomas head I am not familiar with the exact heads but be sure to check to see if there is enough room over the pistons if yours pop up over the top of the block. I know this was a problem (please don't ask how I know) with the original Thomas heads. I assume the Snyder head has a recess over the piston like a Model A "Police" head. Charlie Stephens

10-04-2014, 04:22 AM	#4
colin1928 Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2013 Location: Australa Melbourne Posts: 878	Re: Snyder or Thomas head I have used both heads if you want a head that looks original and gives a little more power the Synder is the go the Thomas will give even more power has higher compression better chamber shape modern metric spark plugs and as you can see looks like a performance head the Thomas has very thick deck so can be milled for even higher compression they are fly cut so piston clearance not a problem Colin

10-04-2014, 04:54 AM	#5
BRENT in 10-uh-C Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Eastern Tennessee Posts: 11,513	Re: Snyder or Thomas head This also depends on which Snyder iron head you are after. Their iron 6:1 head has a better chamber design that was 'flogged' by Bill Stipe. __________________ . BRENT in 10-uh-C . www.model-a-ford.com ...(...Finally Updated!! ) .

10-04-2014, 09:44 AM	#8
Purdy Swoft Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Alabama Posts: 8,099	Re: Snyder or Thomas head I would choose the Snyder cast iron 6:1 head . The Thomas aluminum head may give more power but aluminum has a different expansion rate than cast iron and will sooner or later give more gasket problems. Also aluminum has a tendency to stick to the steel head studs because of disimilar metal reaction. This can be a problem when the head needs to be removed . It may look cool but I always avoid aluminum parts when I have a choice . Aluminum doesn't hold up as well as cast iron .

10-04-2014, 09:56 AM	#9
Jonnyenglish Member Join Date: Sep 2014 Location: united Kingdom Posts: 58	Re: Snyder or Thomas head Well I guess I was heading towards the Thomas.....but very valid point by Purdy Swoft...still open to any other experiences or views though.

10-04-2014, 10:07 AM	#10
MikeK Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Windy City Posts: 2,919	Re: Snyder or Thomas head I guess that depends on your intentions. Both Snyder heads look stock, the Thomas definitely has a hot-rod look to it. In addition to the aluminum problems Purdy listed above, you will probably need to run a magnesium sacrificial anode or at least use an OAT antifreeze.

10-04-2014, 10:48 AM	#11
Jonnyenglish Member Join Date: Sep 2014 Location: united Kingdom Posts: 58	Re: Snyder or Thomas head I do like the look of the non standard head (although would choose performance over looks)....Seems there is more choice than I first thought, now I see there is Lion and Winfield, although just searched about the Lion and maybe we shouldnt go there again unless anyone has real positives?? Educate me!

10-04-2014, 01:06 PM	#13
Purdy Swoft Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Alabama Posts: 8,099	Re: Snyder or Thomas head Heads with compression that is very much over 6:1 won't have mild manners for street use and drivability in general. In other words , if you don't use a distributor with automatic advance you will need to keep one hand on the spark lever quite a bit to avoid timing knocks and bucking & lugging. The Lion head is the heaviest built with machined combustion chambers . The Lion head has been reported to give less problems with gasket failure in the center on a recent head gasket thread here. I don't think that the weight of the Lion head would be a problem. I feel that the extra weight of the head will just add strength and durability. A new cast iron Winfield head may soon be available .

10-04-2014, 01:13 PM	#14
Jonnyenglish Member Join Date: Sep 2014 Location: united Kingdom Posts: 58	Re: Snyder or Thomas head And thankyou again..Lots of excellent info here. Good to hear all your views, always want to spend wisely!

10-05-2014, 08:13 AM	#18
Jonnyenglish Member Join Date: Sep 2014 Location: united Kingdom Posts: 58	Re: Snyder or Thomas head Ok, well thanks to all the comments, il have a think about which to go for (at this moment really not sure still) and also find out shipping charges and go from there.

10-05-2014, 10:54 AM	#20
southfork Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Idaho Posts: 416	Re: Snyder or Thomas head What is the price range on the Snyder 6.1 and the Thomas (and also the anticipated Winfield)? Haven't ever looked into buying a high compression head, but now I'm wondering.

10-05-2014, 11:30 AM	#21
Purdy Swoft Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Alabama Posts: 8,099	Re: Snyder or Thomas head The Snyder 6:1 cast iron head is offered for $325.00 . The Thomas aluminum 6:7 head is offered for $525.00 . There is a $200.00 difference in price . I don't think that a price has yet been mentioned for the new Winfield cast iron head that is in the works now. It is my understanding that the cast iron winfield will be offered in both 6:1 and 7:1 compression ratios with two different variations in the combustion chambers. Last edited by Purdy Swoft; 10-05-2014 at 12:25 PM.

10-05-2014, 03:05 PM	#26
Juggler Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Phoenix AZ/Bath UK Posts: 481	Re: Snyder or Thomas head Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) Really looking forward to the new Winfields Tod Can I have number 1?

10-05-2014, 03:43 PM	#27
pcup Junior Member Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: North Co. Posts: 19	Re: Snyder or Thomas head BRENT, I'M NOT ABLE TO BRING PRIOR COMENTS BY CARL G, WHO ARE U REFERING TO AS [BILL] AND WHICH HEAD. I'M IN So Cal JUST RETURNED FROM COLORADO AND THE "C" HEAD JUST DIDN'T CUT IT AFTER 6 K ELEVATION. I WILL MOVE THERE SHORTLY SO I ALSO WILL NEED ANOTHER HEAD. PCUP

10-05-2014, 05:02 PM	#30
Purdy Swoft Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Alabama Posts: 8,099	Re: Snyder or Thomas head The original Model B head used a three bolt water pump, had a large letter C embossed in the top near the distributor and used the improved heart shaped combustion chamber with a compression ratio of 4.6:1 . The original model A head had a compression ratio of 4.2:1. There was a model A head with normal water pump, A large letter B embossed near the distributor with a compression ratio of 5.2:1 This head is often reffered to as the police head. The heads pictured show that the top picture appears to be the standard 4.2:1 compression. The bottom picture shows the heart shaped combustion chamber. This is an aftermarket replacement and probably has a ratio , anywhere from 5.2 to 6.1 Its impossible to say for sure withoun measuring the CCs in the combustion chambers

10-05-2014, 06:21 PM	#31
southfork Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Idaho Posts: 416	Re: Snyder or Thomas head I appreciate that comprehensive information about Ford cast iron heads, Purdy. That aftermarket head and the Model A head were part of a stash of Model A and Model T heads that some lady dumped off at the local iron recycling yard a while back. Fortunately, I was there to intercept them.

10-05-2014, 08:40 PM	#32
Purdy Swoft Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Alabama Posts: 8,099	Re: Snyder or Thomas head Good find !!! The head with the heart shaped combustion chamber will make a noticable improvement in power and hill climbing ability .

10-05-2014, 09:22 PM	#33
hotrodalley Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Franklin, TN Posts: 124	Re: Snyder or Thomas head I have had really good luck with the Thomas head. I have over 10,000 miles on mine and enjoy the extra performance. I have learned to manually adjust the timing as I am running a stock distributor. Someday I might spring for a centrifugal advance setup, but I'm ok for now. I have a Snyder 5.5 on one of my other cars, and it is ok, but there is just something about the looks of the Thomas head - especially with dual downdraft carbs.

10-05-2014, 11:25 PM	#34
southfork Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Idaho Posts: 416	Re: Snyder or Thomas head Hotrodalley, Doesn't the Model B distributor have the centrifugal advance? There should be quite a few of them around, I would think, and that's just about a drop in.

10-06-2014, 10:31 AM	#35
Jonnyenglish Member Join Date: Sep 2014 Location: united Kingdom Posts: 58	Re: Snyder or Thomas head Right, someone on a Uk forum says "go for a winfield" so I searched and reds headers comes up with an aluminium head, is there a iron head avaliable to buy now as I cant find by searching? Any ideas? I understand they are in the pipeline as talked about above but just want a bit more info please.

10-10-2014, 09:56 PM	#39
hardtimes Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: South California Posts: 6,188	Re: Snyder or Thomas head Hey Jonny, Well, you figured ONE thing out well, i.e.- that Snyders service to customers is GREAT ! The other two things...cost and availability...not so much ! An old saying about cost applies here. And , good things come to those who wait is also somewhat true. BTW...I believe that TOD machines those Snyder sold heads, so youse just may have made full circle on that (Tod) anyway. If 5:1 head meets your needs, go for it ! Good luck.

10-12-2014, 10:59 PM	#40
southfork Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Idaho Posts: 416	Re: Snyder or Thomas head What would be a fair price for a used after market high-compression head with the "B" style water pump bolt pattern? I'm going to look at the used head tomorrow. The owner took it and the 'B' water pump off a recently rebuilt insert-bearing banger. He's asking $100 for the head and also $100 for the 'B' water pump if I want it. I asked him why he took it off, and he said it's too hard on the engine to have that much compression, and because it's too hard to crank over with that much compression. I wont know the manufacturer of the head until I see it --- assuming that the manufacturer has marked it with the name.

10-13-2014, 12:29 AM	#41
Pete Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Wa. Posts: 5,408	Re: Snyder or Thomas head Too hard to crank with the starter is the biggest crock I have ever heard. Beware of that guy. I have run B engines with 11 to 1 compression on alcohol and they start right up on the starter just like a stock engine.

10-13-2014, 12:30 AM	#42
hb32 Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2012 Location: Nanaimo Vancouver Island B.C. Canada Posts: 1,067	Re: Snyder or Thomas head Any new info on the new cast Winfield ?

10-13-2014, 01:05 PM	#44
southfork Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Idaho Posts: 416	Re: Snyder or Thomas head Now I'm really curious as to WHY there weren't a lot of high compression aftermarket heads made with the bolt pattern for the B water pump. Today, it seems that lots of guys are trying to get top performance out of there bangers, and that B Bangers are quite popular. Wasn't that always the case, given the improvements in that engine over the 'A'? Anyway, now I'm a bit skeptical about that "aftermarket high-compression" head that I'm going to see later today. It's probably a Ford Model B head, although the guy said that he didn't think that it was made by Ford.

10-13-2014, 06:30 PM	#45
southfork Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Idaho Posts: 416	Re: Snyder or Thomas head The referenced "high Compression head" that I looked at this afternoon has me a bit uncertain. It has a large "C" cast on the top of the head, but doesn't say Ford anywhere. Instead, it has "3M" inside a rectangle, and right below that is a cast designation "M-6050". Elsewhere on the top of the head, it has what looks like a screw head casting followed by 16-255. Finally, it takes spark plugs of a smaller base diameter than Model A spark plugs. Anybody have any idea who made this Model B style head, and whether it's a desirable head?

10-13-2014, 08:34 PM	#46
southfork Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Idaho Posts: 416	Re: Snyder or Thomas head Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) Thanks, forever4. I guess it's about the same as a Ford-made Model B then, compression-wize. Probably worth the $100 the sellers is asking.

10-14-2014, 08:17 AM	#47
31Tudor Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: North Carolina Posts: 611	Re: Snyder or Thomas head I have been running the Thomas 7 to 1 head on my speedster for going on 16 years. I have 9,000 miles on everything. Runs great!

10-14-2014, 03:36 PM	#48
Dodge Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: Sonoma, CA. Posts: 1,495	Re: Snyder or Thomas head Another thing to consider is that this car is in the U.K. and could have the smaller cubic inch displacement motor in it. If it does you could be lowering the compression by putting on an aftermarket head. If so you may want to go to a U.S. spec motor. Does any one know the chamber cc's for the smaller displacement motor?

10-14-2014, 03:41 PM	#49
CarlG Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Anchorage, Alaska Posts: 9,115	Re: Snyder or Thomas head I read somewhere that the small engine was 2.2L while the US model is 3.3L __________________ Alaskan A's Antique Auto Mushers of Alaska Model A Ford Club of America Model A Restorers Club Antique Automobile Club of America Mullins Owner's Club Last edited by CarlG; 10-14-2014 at 03:46 PM.

04-14-2015, 11:23 AM	#56
Jonnyenglish Member Join Date: Sep 2014 Location: united Kingdom Posts: 58	Re: Snyder or Thomas head Now that is good news - lets hope all goes to plan, i would love to have the new head fitted for pendine sands this year. Fingers crossed. My original post was between thomas and snyder, but once i was aware of Tods Winfield my mind was made up.