Old bolts

[apbright]

Hello all,

I am in the process of a full tear-down and rebuild of a S/W sedan, and find that while all of the bolts that I pull off of it are rusted, a bit of bead-blasting returns them to at least a superficially-looking usable state. I wonder, though, am I fooling myself by their good-looks fresh out of the blasting cabinet - are these likely to just even more quickly rust up again? Replacements are easily purchased. Or, am I a fool to throw these old bolts away? Would be interested in any thoughts.

Thanks, Andrew

[vermontboy]

I always try to reuse original hardware. I use a vinegar soak and wire brush and then run a thread chaser over them and give them a light oil bath or use cold blue (gunsmith item) to prevent rust. There is a totally different quality feel when old nuts and bolts are tightened up compared to new hardware.
You will also find that there are some bolts where there is no modern equivalent available.

[Tom Wesenberg]

I think you should buy all new hardware..........and send me your original hardware.

I'll make sure no one else uses it.

[Steve Plucker]

Originally Posted by Tom Wesenberg

I think you should buy all new hardware..........and send me your original hardware.

I'll make sure no one else uses it.

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm...Now is there is a hidden message behind that one?

Pluck

[Steve Plucker]

Originally Posted by apbright

Hello all,

I am in the process of a full tear-down and rebuild of a S/W sedan, and find that while all of the bolts that I pull off of it are rusted, a bit of bead-blasting returns them to at least a superficially-looking usable state. I wonder, though, am I fooling myself by their good-looks fresh out of the blasting cabinet - are these likely to just even more quickly rust up again? Replacements are easily purchased. Or, am I a fool to throw these old bolts away? Would be interested in any thoughts.

Thanks, Andrew

Depends on just what your goal is with your restoration of the car.

If you want to keep that original look in the best way you can...keep and use the original nuts and bolts...I would use new lockwashers though because they have a tendency to brake. And along with this...get a Parts Price List so you know just what size of Lockwashers to use in each application and assembly. Also a copy of the MARC/MAFCA Restoration Guidelines and Judging Standards for the correct finish on all attaching hardware.

If your goal is not to keep that original look...then send the nuts and bolts to Tom!

Pluck

[eystein]

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In my restoration,(torn down before I bought it) it feels as if I have spent as much time getting original or original-looking bolts as on all the rest of the restoration.

So, Whatever you do, don't throw them away.

Preferably also document which sizes an types go where, so that you can help others who are having problems with an incomplete car.

[colin1928]

30 odd years ago I learned from a old guy who had worked at the Ford plant in Geelong Australia in the 30s and 40s he told me that all bolts and nuts were boiled in hot oil
Maybe that how they have a gunmetal colour ??

[Mitch//pa]

yes we send all of our old original hardware to Tom. he organizes it, catalogues them and stores it for us....

[Kevin in NJ]

Never throw away original!!!!

Many chassis nuts and bolts are done with a tighter tolerance thread. If you run a tap or die you will remove a small amount of metal and now the part will fit loose. You will find a quick example with the radiator support rods or the brake rods. Some nuts are super hard and tighter threads like the spring mount U bolt nuts. They will ruin your tap. Oh, the repros are not as hard so can that be good?

On my car you will find some pitted hardware. I found you can dress up the rusty stuff with a light filing to take the high spots off. For screws I put them in my battery drill and hit them with a file then sand paper to smooth them. This can dress up some pretty bad screw heads.

Some of the repro screws work fine, but you may want to dress them up. The new oval head screws are too thick a head and have rounded edges. I found a file to change the shape gets you pretty close to original. A good example of this is for the dovetail oval head screws. They were, in my case, plated. The repros are stainless and too thick. A file, sandpaper and a buffer and you have something decent.

[Steve Plucker]

Originally Posted by colin1928

30 odd years ago I learned from a old guy who had worked at the Ford plant in Geelong Australia in the 30s and 40s he told me that all bolts and nuts were boiled in hot oil
Maybe that how they have a gunmetal colour ??

Funny, I did a test on that procedure once and here is what I found...

First of all all nuts and bolts must be clean...very clean, wirebrush clean.

Then I heated up clean oil to the boil point and put the items in for a few minutes, shut off the heat source, walked away till it cooled down...items came out goldish color.

Then I heated up the very blackest of black used engine oil I could find to boiling, put the nuts and bolts into the oil for a few minutes, turned it off and came back after cooling...the items came out black.

Then I tried the same as above except this time I heated the nuts and bolts to just to the point of turning red...same conclusions except the "black" nuts and bolts came out even blacker.

I wonder if I were to use "clear" oil, that the nuts and bolts would of still retained that "unfinished" look instead of gold color?

I know there are other ways to achive the the same results...I think Chris Haynes once put up his method on the barn a few years ago.

Pluck

[Terry,NJ]

I know I've said this before, But for cleaning old bolts, Get an adjustable die and adjust it wide/open and run it down over the thread. An adjustable die has been slit on one side and with a wedge screw in your diestock (handle) can be opened or closed as needed. Using this arrangement, you can do a perfect clean up on the bolt threads with out removing any material from the thread.
For the nuts, you need a old Starter tap, which has a long tapered lead on it. I would go in from both sides until the tap starts to "Bite" the metal, then stop. Take an old bolt with a bad head or something and "sacrifice" it by grinding short flutes in it
(Like a tap) and that will also work.
Terry

[Brentwood Bob]

wire brushing on a grinder is my preference. Bob

[MikeK]

Whenever I attach a Vintique part I use matching quality chinese hardware.

[Willie Krash]

Colin1928, you are quite right. I'm a phonograph collector and Edison used black/blue screws. Heat a modern screw up and dip in oil.
Works with old engine oil and with a little lead in it all the better. Clean oil just doesn't work.
I'd love to find a pint of oil out of a really old engine.

[Purdy Swoft]

The carbon and sludge settles to the bottom and the oil will look fresh after sitting for a long period in an old engine.

[Purdy Swoft]

The wire brush on a bench grinder can remove metal and harm threads if heavily used. A rock polisher will tumble old rusty bolts and make them look like new. I just feel better when using as many original bolts and parts as I can. That keeps it real model A.

[Clem Clement]

I run all my old bolts and nuts thru a lapidary tumble. My matrix is soapy water with lots of non-homogeneous old small nuts bolts, nails etc. the rust and mess is gone without removing metal or damaging the threads.

I throw nuthin away.

[Rusty Homestead Fl]

Originally Posted by Willie Krash

Colin1928, you are quite right. I'm a phonograph collector and Edison used black/blue screws. Heat a modern screw up and dip in oil.
Works with old engine oil and with a little lead in it all the better. Clean oil just doesn't work.
I'd love to find a pint of oil out of a really old engine.

Willie, Try someone's used lawn mower oil. Mine is usually black as coal when I get around to changing it.

[Dusty]

Well I screwed up I replaced numerous nuts and bolts with stainless steel but than again I got green fenders



Losing points as I speak in WV soon to be in GA
dusty

[Tom Wesenberg]

Originally Posted by Willie Krash

Colin1928, you are quite right. I'm a phonograph collector and Edison used black/blue screws. Heat a modern screw up and dip in oil.
Works with old engine oil and with a little lead in it all the better. Clean oil just doesn't work.
I'd love to find a pint of oil out of a really old engine.

Wouldn't black oil from a diesel work the best?