Brake energizer kit questions

[31Abone]

I see bratons has a hole and pin while Teds do not in front Kit..talking about front lower wedge assembly..whats the story behind this ?? see pics

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

The sides of the stud is narrower than stock on the Brattons units which allows the side tolerance of the wedge that is inserted over the stud to float and so the pin that inserts in the hole is used to keep it centered. This in theory allows the wedge to have some float where the shoes can center themselves.

[jhowes]

Brent; What is your opinion of the floater kits if one is rebuilding the front brakes as close to spec. as possible? Sorry to steal this thread. Jack

[TerryH]

We just re-built my front brakes without floaters and they work extremely well now, but we spent considerable time making sure they were properly centered.

[nick c]

Brake floaters will help, the brake energizer will help more, because the top adjusting wedge is 2 piece and the wedge can float so that the rear shoe puts pressure on the front shoe know as self energizing.
carry on

[Purdy Swoft]

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I now use the front floaters from Brattons when I rebuild model A front brakes . Brattons front floaters are a good improvement and centers the lower end of the front brake shoes when used . Without the lower floaters on the front brakes the only centering adjustment is up or down by building up or grinding the front brake tracks . Back in the day , a lot of the old mechanics would bend the tracks in an attempt to center the up and down position of the brake shoes . I mostly prefer the weld and grind method .

[alexiskai]

This is one of those areas where people often ask what the "best" solution is and I really think the best solution depends greatly on the resources you have available. Like if you are building an engine and you have a whole factory's worth of tooling to draw on, then you can make certain choices that you can't make if you have a small workshop and a limited budget. Same with brakes, like if you don't have the tools and expertise to turn the drum, rivet the lining, center and arc the shoes, etc., then your "best" choice might not be the same as the best choice for someone who does have those resources.

A lot of folks feel like the brake energizer/floater kits are not as good as factory-spec brakes, but if they get you close to the performance of factory-spec brakes without the resource input needed to rebuild to spec, then I think there's a worthwhile place for them in the hobbyist toolkit.

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

Originally Posted by alexiskai

This is one of those areas where people often ask what the "best" solution is and I really think the best solution depends greatly on the resources you have available. Like if you are building an engine and you have a whole factory's worth of tooling to draw on, then you can make certain choices that you can't make if you have a small workshop and a limited budget. Same with brakes, like if you don't have the tools and expertise to turn the drum, rivet the lining, center and arc the shoes, etc., then your "best" choice might not be the same as the best choice for someone who does have those resources.

A lot of folks feel like the brake energizer/floater kits are not as good as factory-spec brakes, but if they get you close to the performance of factory-spec brakes without the resource input needed to rebuild to spec, then I think there's a worthwhile place for them in the hobbyist toolkit.

To a certain extent, you are correct however the bigger thing that frustrates me somewhat is some people try to validate their method is better only because it seems believable (--to them). For example, how many times have we heard the excuse that someone converted their Model-A car over to 12 volts because they wanted to safely drive it at night? The floater kits are often used because someone did not take the time to cover the basic fundamentals first.

[alexiskai]

Originally Posted by BRENT in 10-uh-C

The floater kits are often used because someone did not take the time to cover the basic fundamentals first.

That can be true, but "the basic fundamentals" can also be in the eye of the beholder. I've certainly seen people say "before you put in floaters you should take the time to do X and Y" when X and Y require not just time but also money and access to specialized tools and expertise. I think it'd be better to say "If you can, you should first do X and Y, which can resolve a lot of problems without introducing new parts and complications."

[J Franklin]

They're BRAKES. If you are planning to work on them do the X&Y, and everything else, and don't cheap out!

[wmws]

Nick C post 5 has it right. A trailing shoe will never be as efficient as a leading shoe. That is why most road race cars and bikes in the 50s and 60s had double leading shoe brakes. Ted’s floater kit simulates a double leading shoe without all the complicated mechanical linkage.

[alexiskai]

Originally Posted by J Franklin

They're BRAKES. Do the X&Y and everything else and don't cheap out!

I just think that taking a strong prescriptive stance on brakes or seat belts or the clutch or whatever mostly leads to a lot of cars rarely leaving the garage because the owner has been told they must do X and Y or, you know, people's lives are in danger.

I had a guy come to my house last month as part of a mobile detailing crew – we were having a car prepped for sale – and he saw my '29 coupe and just fell instantly in love. Kept just stopping work and staring at the car. Now he really wants to get one and restore it.

But he's young and broke and doesn't come from a mechanical background. And that should be OK! I want more guys like that in the hobby, and I think we should be OK telling them there are multiple solutions to problems, including solutions that might work better for folks who have more time than money, or more money than time, or can't weld, etc. (I can't count the number of suggestions I've seen that start with "just weld.")

Anyway. I agree that brakes should be inspected carefully and maintained well. Floater kits can be a band-aid on a system that would benefit from retooling or replacement. But sometimes those are not good options for folks, and I personally would rather have those folks out on the road enjoying the hobby than waiting around trying to save up the time and money to do it "right."

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

Originally Posted by J Franklin

They're BRAKES. If you are planning to work on them do the X&Y, and everything else, and don't cheap out!

While I was not going to respond simply to refrain from being argumentative, however hopefully we all will agree that there are certain things that in the society that we live in today dictates a stronger reasoning for doing something correctly. Also, there really should be no shame in seeking assistance when the proper tools or knowledge are not owned.

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

Originally Posted by alexiskai

I just think that taking a strong prescriptive stance on brakes or seat belts or the clutch or whatever mostly leads to a lot of cars rarely leaving the garage because the owner has been told they must do X and Y or, you know, people's lives are in danger.

I had a guy come to my house last month as part of a mobile detailing crew – we were having a car prepped for sale – and he saw my '29 coupe and just fell instantly in love. Kept just stopping work and staring at the car. Now he really wants to get one and restore it.

But he's young and broke and doesn't come from a mechanical background. And that should be OK! I want more guys like that in the hobby, and I think we should be OK telling them there are multiple solutions to problems, including solutions that might work better for folks who have more time than money, or more money than time, or can't weld, etc. (I can't count the number of suggestions I've seen that start with "just weld.")

Anyway. I agree that brakes should be inspected carefully and maintained well. Floater kits can be a band-aid on a system that would benefit from retooling or replacement. But sometimes those are not good options for folks, and I personally would rather have those folks out on the road enjoying the hobby than waiting around trying to save up the time and money to do it "right."

I guess this is where we disagree again. Folks need to understand their limitations in all facets of life. A 'young, broke, unmechanically-minded' person is NOT going to be a good steward of a Model-A vehicle, and the brutal reality is he has not 'earned the right' to own this type of vehicle that WILL require some mechanical skills, tools, and $$. Condoning someone to drive a marginally safe vehicle using the mindset that they should enjoy the hobby instead of 'doing it right' is just plain foolish in my view. Life is all about priorities too, -and if a person truly wants a safe Model-A that is not a driving hazard to himself, -or towards other innocent motorists, they WILL find a way to do the job correctly. And if you want to disagree with my opinion on this, that is fine too.

[Dick Steinkamp]

Originally Posted by BRENT in 10-uh-C

A 'young, broke, unmechanically-minded' person is NOT going to be a good steward of a Model-A vehicle, and the brutal reality is he has not 'earned the right' to own this type of vehicle that WILL require some mechanical skills, tools, and $$.

I disagree with your disagree

I was a young, broke 15 year old in 1962 with no mechanical skills when I got my first Model A. A 30 coupe that was in pieces. I read everything I could get my hands on about As. I joined the local club and networked with other helpful owners. I used my father's rather poor set of tools and borrowed those I didn't have. I earned the money to buy the parts I needed to put it back together.



I became a "car guy". I've restored (or hot rodded) over 30 vehicles (including 2 other Model As). I've taken 2 of those cars to the Grand National Roadster Show. If I had waited until I had the skills, tools and $$ to buy my first A, my lifelong avocation would probably be golf or bowling.

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

Originally Posted by Dick Steinkamp

I disagree with your disagree

I was a young, broke 15 year old in 1962 with no mechanical skills when I got my first Model A. A 30 coupe that was in pieces. I read everything I could get my hands on about As. I joined the local club and networked with other helpful owners. I used my father's rather poor set of tools and borrowed those I didn't have. I earned the money to buy the parts I needed to put it back together.



I became a "car guy". I've restored (or hot rodded) over 30 vehicles (including 2 other Model As). I've taken 2 of those cars to the Grand National Roadster Show. If I had waited until I had the skills, tools and $$ to buy my first A, my lifelong avocation would probably be golf or bowling.

Times were different back then Dick. Less of a litigious society -and your skill set & resources, -albeit maybe limited by standards back then were still far greater then than the typical mechanical mindset found today.


I am not saying all of this just to blurt out a harmful opinion or to place judgment on people. Its just my observations. I honestly see/experience this 2 -3 times a week, ...not just on some random occasion. I field technical calls through my line of work from people who call us with a problem asking for advice, -and when you ask them questions and start giving (free) advice, I find they do not have any tools to work with nor do they have any books or manual to read. People today don't read like you did back then. I find they really just want someone to explain it to them ...yet they don't take notes on what I am saying nor do they seem to follow directions well. I will give them 3 or 4 things to do/check by phone and tell them to contact me back after they have completed those items. When I inquire afterwards, I often find they did not follow my instructions. I try to be polite but it honestly is a different mindset today. People don't try to figure things out for themselves these days. They often are looking for a simple solution to barely get by. Probably one of the most frustrating excuses I hear is "I just want a driver, so it doesn't need to be perfect like a show car."


You guys feel free to disagree with me all you like, as it really changes nothing for either side, however I am done commenting on this topic.

[Dick Steinkamp]

I would disagree with you painting EVERYONE with the same brush unless those 2-3 experiences during the week are close to 100% of your contacts during the week. If not, it is not correct to use terms like "People today don't read", or "People don't try to figure things out for themselves".

We have all met people like you describe. I think that is a small percentage, however. I believe that most of us here on the Barn and most of us in the old car hobby in general read and try to figure things out (with a little help from friends sometimes) . At least that's my experience.

[rer_239]

So i have soiled greasy paged Les Andrews books, and have finished the brakes, but would like to find someone to double check them. When i was interested in hot rods i saw (at NHRA shows) safety inspections that were quite detailed, are there any Model A safety inspection sites?

[wmws]

I have heard of some clubs doing safety checks for their members but some have shied away from the practice for liability reasons. The best you might be able to do is a friend who is familiar with Model A's who you trust to look over your work to see if there is anything really badly wrong.

[Russ/40]

Originally Posted by BRENT in 10-uh-C

You guys feel free to disagree with me all you like, as it really changes nothing for either side, however I am done commenting on this topic.

Brent, I can relate to your frustration. It's got to be difficult dealing professionally with people who want you to think for them, without compensating you for your knowledge or time. Personally, I often run into people who to me, should not own an old car. They rely on other people, taking them for granted. I will help anyone, as long as they are willing to invest there own time, money, and, or, personal effort for self study. But, I do have a soft spot for the sincere enthusiast who rewards not with money they don't have, but with an appreciative attitude, and relationship that is rewarding in ways other than money. I can do that but then, I dont have to make a living doing it.