Oil Pickup gasket

[tommyleea]

55 272 oil tube to oil pan connection. I know this has been covered
ad nauseam, but looking at the oil pump diagram in the book I have a question. The book shows the pickup tube and seals, but it doesn't show the oil pan, or a dotted line as to where the oil pan would be. How can you tell if the washer at the pan side goes inside the pan, or outside the pan? Is it just from experience? I am going to install on the inside, but just curious. If I were to just look at the book, and not ask any questions, I would have installed it on the outside. That's what is so great about these forums..experience. Thanks for all the help and inputs.

[Dobie Gillis]

If you're talking about the square gasket at the oil pump outlet my '54/'55 Merc service manual shows it at the inside of the pan.

[dmsfrr]

It's been a couple too many years and working thru the CRS fog it seems there are 2 round gaskets where the pickup tube passes thru the side of the oilpan.
One made of gasket material on the inside and one of a soft-ish metal on the outside for the nut to tighten against... is what I vaguely remember doing.
Page 106 of the Charles Morris "Y-Block Engines" book, illustration #4 says "two sealing washers" ... one inside & one outside.
.

[Dobie Gillis]

This is from the Ford Y-block engine assembly guide:

The oil pickup on the Y-block Ford engine is external. It is fed through a hole in the oil pan from the inside out. Two sealing washers are included in the engine gasket kit for the pickup. One goes to the outside (the thicker one) of the pan and seals the pickup against the pan. The other fits between the large nut and the oil pan. Thread the large nut onto the pickup from the outside but do not fully tighten it at this point. The oil pan may now be installed. Be sure to use sealer (I prefer RTV) on the gasket; it seals well and also helps hold the gasket in place during assembly. Once you start the numerous oil pan bolts, a speed handle, socket, and extension to snug them up are great time-savers.

[tommyleea]

Again, that's why I love these forums. Thanks to all. One inside, and one outside.

[darrell]

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i have never used or seen a gasket on the outside of a pan.

[tommyleea]

Originally Posted by darrell

i have never used or seen a gasket on the outside of a pan.

I will post a picture, because I have one on mine as of tonight!

[Daves55Sedan]

I've owned three Y-blocks in all, two I still have, and worked on several. All the car Y-block engines I have seen have a large copper washer on the outside of the pan with a large nut that smashes the copper washer to the oil pan.
If the oil pan and oil pump are already installed on the engine you can still install the pickup tube, by leaving the washer and nut loose on the pickup tube. Slide your threaded fitting and rubber seal onto the pump end, then push the elbow of the pickup tube into the pan, pushing the tube toward the front and work the back of the tube into the pump till she's home. Pull the elbow portion of the pickup tube back out and screw the nut on that end. Now screw the threaded fitting in at the pump end and tighten everything. Done.

[KULTULZ]

Originally Posted by tommyleea

55 272 oil tube to oil pan connection. I know this has been covered
ad nauseam,

Doesn't matter as you are unclear and need to know the answer.

... but looking at the oil pump diagram in the book I have a question. The book shows the pickup tube and seals, but it doesn't show the oil pan, or a dotted line as to where the oil pan would be. How can you tell if the washer at the pan side goes inside the pan, or outside the pan?

Look at the ILL -



The seal (6626) goes to the outside of the pan and is crushed/held by the retaining nut (354361-S). The resulting washer crush will seal the connection completely.

What may be causing confusion is random use of aftermarket gasket sets and/or FORD design changes throughout the engine history.

In the ILL, BPN 6673 and 6698 go to the pump inlet.

[darrell]

i went out and checked some pans i have one had the washer on the inside and two had none at all and didnt seem to be leaking.these are of rebuilds so who knows.some may be using washers on both sides for a little extra insurance.

[tommyleea]

[QUOTE=KULTULZ;1849533]Doesn't matter as you are unclear and need to know the answer.




Look at the ILL -



The seal (6626) goes to the outside of the pan and is crushed/held by the retaining nut (354361-S). The resulting washer crush will seal the connection completely.

Yes, that is the illustration I was looking at. There is no indication of where the oil pan would be in relationship to the sealing washer. That is where my confusion came in. I agree with you that looking at the illustration, I would put the washer on the outside, BUT....Anyway, I have one on the inside, and one on the outside. I will just have to see what the outcome is. Thanks for the info. Additionally, if there was to be a washer on the tube it seems like the illustration would show it on the tube with an arrow and a part number. Just things I think about. Thanks again....

[tommyleea]

Originally Posted by darrell

i went out and checked some pans i have one had the washer on the inside and two had none at all and didnt seem to be leaking.these are of rebuilds so who knows.some may be using washers on both sides for a little extra insurance.

Copy that .. I guess things change over the years..Thanks for the input.

[KULTULZ]

Look at the ILL -



The seal (6626) goes to the outside of the pan and is crushed/held by the retaining nut (354361-S). The resulting washer crush will seal the connection completely.

Yes, that is the illustration I was looking at. There is no indication of where the oil pan would be in relationship to the sealing washer. That is where my confusion came in. I agree with you that looking at the illustration, I would put the washer on the outside, BUT....Anyway, I have one on the inside, and one on the outside. I will just have to see what the outcome is. Thanks for the info. Additionally, if there was to be a washer on the tube it seems like the illustration would show it on the tube with an arrow and a part number. Just things I think about. Thanks again....

I see what you are saying now. You have to get used to FORD. The actual pickup tube (in pan) has the threaded part, correct? The washer would not fit over that fitting. The threaded part sticks thru the oil pan hole and is held tightly with the crushing nut. All is sealed between the pan and nut.

[tommyleea]

I see what you are saying now. You have to get used to FORD. The actual pickup tube (in pan) has the threaded part, correct? The washer would not fit over that fitting. The threaded part sticks thru the oil pan hole and is held tightly with the crushing nut. All is sealed between the pan and nut.[/QUOTE]

Yes, the threaded part is on the tube.

[tommyleea]

So, in conclusion..pickup tube seal or seals....

1. The Y Block engine book says one inside, and one outside

2. The Ford Shop Manual and IPB show only one on the outside

3. Several mechanics state only on the inside

4. Can't flip a coin because there are three options..

I guess this topic is closed...Until next time!

But, I do appreciate all the input..At least there is a choice....Good info..And, I will be able to have an input next time it is brought up..

[KULTULZ]

2. The Ford Shop Manual and IPB show only one on the outside

3. Several mechanics state only on the inside

Think of it this way -

If a gasket or crush washer is used on the inner pan side, the actual threaded portion of the inner pickup tube may not protrude enough to obtain full torque value and not crush the copper washer sufficiently.

[Daves55Sedan]

My experience with car Y-block oil pan pick-up tubes as I recall, is that there is a large round washer built in to the pickup tube behind the threads.
The tube is installed in the pan by poking the pump end of the tube in thru the hole in the side of the oil pan. That built-in washer rests against the inside of the side of the oil pan. Once it is poked thru, then you slide the copper washer (6626) and the locknut (354361) in from the pump end of the tube all the way down to the oil pan. The copper washer is the only gasket I have ever seen and it goes on the outside. I don't know how many engine gasket sets I've gotten over the years, but there has never been any kind of gasket that would fit over the threads on the pickup tube (which would position that gasket on the inside of the pan) included in the gasket sets other than the outer copper washer (6626). It makes sense because the built-in washer on the pickup tube itself provides the seal on the inside, once the locknut is tightened. I have never seen any leakage installing it this way, and that is the way they came apart in the first place (with the copper washer on the outside). If you have two gaskets, one for inside and one for outside, by all means, try it. How could it hurt?

[KULTULZ]

Originally Posted by tommyleea

So, in conclusion..pickup tube seal or seals....

1. The Y Block engine book says one inside, and one outside

What book are you referring to?

[tommyleea]

Originally Posted by Daves55Sedan

My experience with car Y-block oil pan pick-up tubes as I recall, is that there is a large round washer built in to the pickup tube behind the threads.
The tube is installed in the pan by poking the pump end of the tube in thru the hole in the side of the oil pan. That built-in washer rests against the inside of the side of the oil pan. Once it is poked thru, then you slide the copper washer (6626) and the locknut (354361) in from the pump end of the tube all the way down to the oil pan. The copper washer is the only gasket I have ever seen and it goes on the outside. I don't know how many engine gasket sets I've gotten over the years, but there has never been any kind of gasket that would fit over the threads on the pickup tube (which would position that gasket on the inside of the pan) included in the gasket sets other than the outer copper washer (6626). It makes sense because the built-in washer on the pickup tube itself provides the seal on the inside, once the locknut is tightened. I have never seen any leakage installing it this way, and that is the way they came apart in the first place (with the copper washer on the outside). If you have two gaskets, one for inside and one for outside, by all means, try it. How could it hurt?

I agree with all your points. I thought the metal built in washer would butt up against the pan, and you add a washer to the outside. If I am reading the shop manual correctly it states to insert the tube through the pan on the inside, then install the seal and nut over the tube and tighten. It doesn't mention installing a seal/washer prior to inserting the tube through the pan. But, when I took mine apart it had a washer on the inside. Since there are some references to a washer on the inside, I installed one on the inside, and one on the outside. I will report my results. There was only one washer that would fit in the oil pan/oil tube gasket set that I received, so I had to locate another that would fit. I didn't get the entire engine gasket kit so not sure about that one. Thanks for your info....

[KULTULZ]

If the integrity of all parts is good, you do not need an inner gasket. Using one may prevent the capturing nut from fully compressing the connection.


The crush washer and nut completely seals the fitting if installed correctly.



Again Tommy, which book?