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Old 01-19-2014, 06:36 PM   #1
29closedcab
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Default Torquing head nut then it happened

Doing the final torquing to 55 lbs on nut number 8 in sequence. That threads in block gave away. Won't hold torque. What are my options? Can I leave go( probably not). I really don't want to pull head AGAIN. Can I remove stud use head as a guide to drill for 1/2 13 tape . Then drill out head to 1/2 so the oversize stud will slide down and finally tap block.
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Old 01-19-2014, 06:54 PM   #2
Neil Mylar LakewoodCA
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Default Re: Torquing head nut then it happened

I got lucky once. Used 2 thin nuts, tighten them together, then was able to back the stud out. I found out the stud was stripped. I put in a new stud using the 2 thin nuts again (a tad past finger tight), then tightened a new stud nut.
Another time I found that the thread in the block was stripped. Had to drill larger hole and use a timesert. Had to remove head.
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Old 01-19-2014, 06:56 PM   #3
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Default Re: Torquing head nut then it happened

My guess is you will have to repair the threads with a heli-coil .. You would have to pull the head to repair though .. I would for sure fix it though .
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Old 01-20-2014, 08:54 AM   #4
Dick Deegan
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Default Re: Torquing head nut then it happened

I think that you will need to remove the head and do one of two things. Use an oversize stud (where the threads going into the block are oversize) or use a heli coil. I had the same thing happen to me with #2 stud and removed the head (which is not that difficult) drilled and tapped the hole in the block (1/2 X 13 I think) placed the new stud and that was that. Be very careful to ensure that the newly tapped hole is absolutely perpendicular to the block. If you don't the head will not go on properly. Ask me how I know!!

If you had this happen to #8 stud, it definitely needs to be repaired. If you are going to have one stud leak it will be #8. IMO it is the most vulnerable place in the Model A head/block for leakage of coolant.

Good luck

Dick
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Old 01-20-2014, 10:44 AM   #5
Charlville
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Default Re: Torquing head nut then it happened

If you are unlucky and it's the block I'd go helicoil, or if you are lucky just a stud. Either way you can't leave it as the damage could be terminal.
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Old 01-20-2014, 11:11 AM   #6
Dave in MN
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Default Re: Torquing head nut then it happened

You can use the head as a drilling guide to keep the stud perpendicular to the block. The rough hole in the head is close (oversize) to the drill bit required for a 7/16" NC Helicoil. Drill the hole being careful to only go as deep as the existing hole. Blow the cuttings out of the hole and then remove the head to tap the hole. The head will keep drill bit cuttings from getting in the cylinders. Seems daunting …until you try it. It is not that hard.
Good Day!

Last edited by Dave in MN; 01-20-2014 at 01:55 PM.
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Old 01-20-2014, 11:22 AM   #7
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Default Re: Torquing head nut then it happened

The hole in the block needs work as everyone has stated. Best to remove head and do it right. It will have to be drilled out. Leave head in place, use appropriate sized drill, shim the outside to just barely fit the hole in the head, then drill thus using head as an alignment jig.

Two choices remain:
1. Helicoil (the kit has its own special drill and tap)
2. Brattons and prolly others have studs that are 1/2-13 on bottom and regular 7/16 stud size up the shaft and top. Brattons # 8170, 8201, 8211 depending on the length you need.

Tap carefully, going forward and backward often to break the chips so you don't lock the tap in and break it. lots of lube, too
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Old 01-20-2014, 11:32 AM   #8
H. L. Chauvin
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Default Re: Torquing head nut then it happened

Hi Closed,

Humble recommendation for your one (1) stud, & good practice suggestion I heard years ago from a highly intelligent professional vintage mechanic:

1. Remove head, remove all studs, replace all studs with new studs -- do it right ........... do it once.

2. Reason:

Whether a material mystery or not, a changed molecular arrangement, an altered steel tempering, a stretched & stressed cross sectional bolt area, so "few" studs spaced far apart on a Model A head, or many others reasons one may have heard, a very wise move recommended by Ford Technicians in the 1930's was to remove all old studs & provide all new studs every time a Model A head is removed.

3. For me, simple analogy:

In my humble opinion, at under $15.00 for a set of regular, new studs, & realizing the trouble to extract just one (1) broken stud, if someone decides to try using old, even just "once-used" stretched studs, he probably will also try to take a chance on changing his underwear once a year, & still sit in a chair all night and all year, & wonder why young pretty women are refusing to dance with him on a Hot Summer Saturday night.

Hope this helps.
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Old 01-20-2014, 07:37 PM   #9
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Default Re: Torquing head nut then it happened

Thanks for the help. I installed new copper gasket, crimp up, gasket spray coated. All new studs, and nuts. Filed the water neck and head flat. Was just taken by surprise when the threads gave away. I will do it all over again now that I did the warmup.
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Old 01-20-2014, 09:06 PM   #10
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Default Re: Torquing head nut then it happened

Quote:
Originally Posted by 29closedcab View Post
Thanks for the help. I installed new copper gasket, crimp up, gasket spray coated. All new studs, and nuts. Filed the water neck and head flat. Was just taken by surprise when the threads gave away. I will do it all over again now that I did the warmup.
But you did not tell us what you did with the stripped stud ??? Hpw did you repair it ?
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Old 01-21-2014, 12:58 AM   #11
Neil Mylar LakewoodCA
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Default Re: Torquing head nut then it happened

29closedcab,
When you originally put in the new studs did you tighten them just a little past finger tight? Over torquing the studs can cause stripped threads.
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Old 01-21-2014, 05:01 AM   #12
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Default Re: Torquing head nut then it happened

I haven't done the repair yet. Studs only went down finger tight with anti seize on threads. I plan on a helicoil. Ordered a kit from summit racing.
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Old 01-21-2014, 11:12 AM   #13
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Default Re: Torquing head nut then it happened

torque is supposed to be read with lubrication (and clean threads, not all burred up) , else you get a reading that is too low. Plus, there is no guarantee you will ever get it apart (or the next guy 80 yrs from now) without inducing havoc, shearing bolts, wrecking threads, etc.

In fact ARP makes their own special lube just for this purpose:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SPoe9S7GqCI

Never-seize is your best friend.
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Old 01-21-2014, 12:16 PM   #14
H. L. Chauvin
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Default Re: Torquing head nut then it happened

Hi tbirdtbird,

Agree 100% with your last sentence of your reply no.4.

All vehicle Forums are overloaded with similar questions on how to remove bolts & studs which have been sheared off because they either broke or have had threads stripped while trying to drill out and/or unscrew these stubborn rusted bolts.

Many of us have already had more than our share of torment in trying to remove stubborn Model A bolts.

Mr. 29closedcab is presently experiencing this same dilemma "only" because some former lazy, cheap, selfish, untrustworthy, mean spirited, hypocrite, nasty, crooked, lying, robbing, murdering, jealous, malcontent, rebellious, swindling, unjust, slothful, idiot would not take the time to do it right & use "Anti-Seize."

Anyone ........................ please assist & add a few if I left out any complimentary human descriptive adjectives ------ thanks!

Anyway, in my humble opinion, it is always wise to use some type of modern Anti-Seize material on all Model A bolts & have compassion for possibly your children, grandchildren, or others who one day will have to dismantle parts for the next vintage re-build of the vehicles we all treasure.

Hope this helps.

Last edited by H. L. Chauvin; 01-21-2014 at 12:17 PM. Reason: typo
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Old 01-21-2014, 01:07 PM   #15
Mitch//pa
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Default Re: Torquing head nut then it happened

Quote:
Originally Posted by h. L. Chauvin View Post
hi tbirdtbird,

agree 100% with your last sentence of your reply no.4.

All vehicle forums are overloaded with similar questions on how to remove bolts & studs which have been sheared off because they either broke or have had threads stripped while trying to drill out and/or unscrew these stubborn rusted bolts.

Many of us have already had more than our share of torment in trying to remove stubborn model a bolts.

Mr. 29closedcab is presently experiencing this same dilemma "only" because some former lazy, cheap, selfish, untrustworthy, mean spirited, hypocrite, nasty, crooked, lying, robbing, murdering, jealous, malcontent, rebellious, swindling, unjust, slothful, idiot would not take the time to do it right & use "anti-seize."

anyone ........................ Please assist & add a few if i left out any complimentary human descriptive adjectives ------ thanks!

Anyway, in my humble opinion, it is always wise to use some type of modern anti-seize material on all model a bolts & have compassion for possibly your children, grandchildren, or others who one day will have to dismantle parts for the next vintage re-build of the vehicles we all treasure.

Hope this helps.
whistle cock
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