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Old 02-14-2020, 11:00 AM   #21
mike in tucson
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Default Re: Drake Sale:

A couple of years ago, a group of us stopped at Drake's parts outfit in Grant's Pass, OR. Mr Drake was very cordial and showed us around the place. He openly discussed the backorder problem.... for instance, he contracted to have tooling done for a particular fender. The stamping house required a lot size of 500 fenders so he ordered 500, not knowing if they would all sell or not. For that part, the 500 eventually sold but the guy that ordered #501 didnt get a fender. Since Mr. Drake had to order a second batch of 500 to fulfill that one fender order, he had to wait until the quantity got to a point where it was cost effective to order 500. Not his fault.

He obviously was a very dedicated person but economics played a large part in his operation. He also showed us new parts he was developing. One was a hood ornament for a 19xx Ford. He had three samples, all three were slightly different. How could he duplicate an ornament that would satisfy everyone? Even the mounting stud patterns were different; Ford used three suppliers and made them fit at the factory.

I will never bad mouth his business after that visit. I dont envy him.
Mike
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Old 02-14-2020, 11:14 AM   #22
V8COOPMAN
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Default Re: Drake Sale:

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Originally Posted by mike in tucson View Post
A couple of years ago, a group of us stopped at Drake's parts outfit in Grant's Pass, OR. Mr Drake was very cordial and showed us around the place. He openly discussed the backorder problem.... for instance, he contracted to have tooling done for a particular fender. The stamping house required a lot size of 500 fenders so he ordered 500, not knowing if they would all sell or not. For that part, the 500 eventually sold but the guy that ordered #501 didnt get a fender. Since Mr. Drake had to order a second batch of 500 to fulfill that one fender order, he had to wait until the quantity got to a point where it was cost effective to order 500. Not his fault.

He obviously was a very dedicated person but economics played a large part in his operation. He also showed us new parts he was developing. One was a hood ornament for a 19xx Ford. He had three samples, all three were slightly different. How could he duplicate an ornament that would satisfy everyone? Even the mounting stud patterns were different; Ford used three suppliers and made them fit at the factory.

I will never bad mouth his business after that visit. I dont envy him.
Mike

A backorder is a retailer's request to a supplier or wholesaler for additional stock of a sold-out item to satisfy an outstanding customer order. If the old Ford supplier is merely waiting-around to see if demand continues for a sold-out part before re-ordering, that ain't a "back order". Telling the customer that something is on "back-order" implies that the parts HAVE BEEN RE-ORDERED and that we are awaiting their IMMENENT ARRIVAL!!! The customer is expected to wait patiently for a part that the vendor KNOWS is never going to happen! DD
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Old 02-14-2020, 11:51 AM   #23
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Default Re: Drake Sale:

There is an easy solution to the backorder problem. It is VERY SIMPLE to check to see if what you want or need is in stock or not. You can call and ask before you order, or you can also tell on line. I ran out of those electrical connectors that you push the bullet wire ends into, saw on line they were in stock (package of 10 for $6.00) and had them the next day in the mail (I live on the west coast) He seems to be getting a lot of things he was out of back in stock. But like I said, find out BEFORE you order.
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Old 02-14-2020, 12:05 PM   #24
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Default Re: Drake Sale:

I have had and am having a few old car parts made, so I understand the supply side. I would not want to be in their position, trying to bring new (old) products to market while keeping the rest always in stock. Not only are the parts suppliers aging, but so are the tool and die makers and machinists. I had a part in process, the tool and die maker had a stroke and was unable to return to work, so I then had to find another shop to take it on. That set the project back 6-9 months. Now a foundry I was using for another part has changed hands and will no longer do the material I need. Meanwhile I have customers waiting on "backorders"...
I had intentions of going into the parts business on a small scale, but with all of this "encouragement" I might keep the day job...

Neal
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Old 02-14-2020, 12:32 PM   #25
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Default Re: Drake Sale:

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Originally Posted by woodiewagon46 View Post
What's the use of having a sale, if everything is on backorder?
I would have been happy to use the $20 coupon and free shipping over $100, I have a decent list of stuff I need for my '40, probably about $250 worth of stuff. I added everything to my cart that was available and my total came to $85. I didn't bother, I bought from someone else who has what I need in stock.
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Old 02-14-2020, 12:39 PM   #26
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Default Re: Drake Sale:

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Originally Posted by NealinCA View Post
I have had and am having a few old car parts made, so I understand the supply side. I would not want to be in their position, trying to bring new (old) products to market while keeping the rest always in stock. Not only are the parts suppliers aging, but so are the tool and die makers and machinists. I had a part in process, the tool and die maker had a stroke and was unable to return to work, so I then had to find another shop to take it on. That set the project back 6-9 months. Now a foundry I was using for another part has changed hands and will no longer do the material I need. Meanwhile I have customers waiting on "backorders"...
I had intentions of going into the parts business on a small scale, but with all of this "encouragement" I might keep the day job...

Neal
Neal, keep it up you do great work and sell excellent products! You at least have a grasp and experience with the struggles at hand unlike others.

I have to not blame drake for his process.. Many of his parts likely cost him $50,000 plus to meet the initial order amount and the cost of tooling. I sure as heck like him would want to insure some of the products are needed before committing. If a person were in it for nothing more than money they would be better off making cell phone cases over Early Ford Parts. Most suppliers have a passion for this stuff and take huge financial risk to provide us with parts. The minimum order quantities for suppliers make it to where they will be sitting on these parts for years before getting their initial investment back in many cases.
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Old 02-14-2020, 01:12 PM   #27
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Default Re: Drake Sale:

Just for the record, I have no issues with back orders or simply how a man chooses to operate his business. Hey, it's his business - his choices. Drake and Carpenter have done a ton of good for our hobby and lord knows I am appreciative.
However, regardless of how a business is run, ethics rule. When a man lacks them, well, I digress...
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Old 02-14-2020, 01:16 PM   #28
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Default Re: Drake Sale:

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Tom,

I find it fascinating that some seem to think that once a seller offers a product they are obliged to continue to offer that product in perpetuity and if they don't, they're "unethical". If you extend that thinking to its logical conclusion, it is evidently wrong that Ford no longer offers a full line of service parts for all of the cars and trucks that it has ever built going back to 1903.



Okay, the sellers should delete items from their catalogs when it is no longer offered and there are no plans to offer it again, but no where is it written that they have an obligation to go on offering everything that someone in the hobby needs.



Similarly, does anyone seriously think that holding inventory clearance sales is unethical, especially when they clearly state "while supplies last"? How about the annual inventory clearance sales by all of the modern car companies every summer clearing out the last of the current year's models? Are they unethical? I don't think so. They're just a normal part of the normal terms of doing business to generate at least enough income to sustain the business.
Dave, I don't believe I or anyone else should be able to dictate how a person runs his business. Those are choices made by the person running said business.
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Old 02-14-2020, 01:35 PM   #29
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Default Re: Drake Sale:

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Neal, keep it up you do great work and sell excellent products! You at least have a grasp and experience with the struggles at hand unlike others.

I have to not blame drake for his process.. Many of his parts likely cost him $50,000 plus to meet the initial order amount and the cost of tooling. I sure as heck like him would want to insure some of the products are needed before committing. If a person were in it for nothing more than money they would be better off making cell phone cases over Early Ford Parts. Most suppliers have a passion for this stuff and take huge financial risk to provide us with parts. The minimum order quantities for suppliers make it to where they will be sitting on these parts for years before getting their initial investment back in many cases.

Michael....I have to wholeheartedly agree with every word you say here. My beef, besides the frequent use of terms like "exact copy" or "authentic reproduction" when the parts AIN'T exactly the same, is the continued use of the phrase "on backorder" when in truth, it has NOT been re-ordered and may NEVER be ordered again. That phraseology keeps customers hanging-on when they might be better off going to plan "B". Just be honest and up-front with the customers.


You know Michael, you're a young grasshopper showing all the signs of ending-up as one of, if not "THE" preeminent old Ford parts suppliers, and possibly in the not too distant future. Your heart is obviously in it, you seem to know the business and the market pretty well, and you make it clear that you have a desire to take a personal interest in your customers' needs and satisfaction. Your ethic seems above reproach in everything that I have had the pleasure of hearing about you. I've NEVER heard of a complaint about you personally or your organization. A status to be proud of, for sure! DD
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Old 02-14-2020, 03:33 PM   #30
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Default Re: Drake Sale:

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Originally Posted by deuce_roadster View Post
There is an easy solution to the backorder problem. It is VERY SIMPLE to check to see if what you want or need is in stock or not. You can call and ask before you order, or you can also tell on line... But like I said, find out BEFORE you order.
This is the key...
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Old 02-14-2020, 03:44 PM   #31
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Default Re: Drake Sale:

Criticism of Bob Drake (ad nauseam) on this forum goes back years - it's getting old and worn out. That the guy is just having a simple SALE and that this sale triggers the self righteous pontificating by some posting here is laughable. Lighten up and enjoy the sale @ https://www.bobdrake.com/hotbuys?Id=...s-email-banner
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Old 02-14-2020, 04:22 PM   #32
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Default Re: Drake Sale:

My issue with Drake is quality, not back orders. For example, I ordered the rear fender stone guards for my '46 wagon. They attach with four studs that go thru the fender. Three of the four studs were somehow welded in the wrong place. When I called Drake, I was told "just drill new holes in the fender". Really, drill holes in a freshly painted fender? When I offered to send a paper pattern so that he could match up with the studs I was told "I don't have time for that". The next issue was the "8" that attaches to the hood ornament on my '46. Two weeks after I installed it, I was washing my car and noticed the "8" was missing. The mounting stud was there, but the "8" was gone. When I called Drake, I was asked "did you put silicone adhesive behind it when you installed it"? of course I didn't, did Ford? Let me be perfectly clear, I can't say if it was Bob or a salesperson, however they should have done everything possible to correct the situation and they did nothing.
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Old 02-15-2020, 09:33 PM   #33
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Default Re: Drake Sale:

It is kinda funny that Drake has ALL the backorder problems. Every time, when it was on B/O, Carpenter had plenty and I can say he very seldom puts anything on B/O like Drake.
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Old 02-15-2020, 09:48 PM   #34
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Default Re: Drake Sale:

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Originally Posted by V8COOPMAN View Post
A backorder is a retailer's request to a supplier or wholesaler for additional stock of a sold-out item to satisfy an outstanding customer order. If the old Ford supplier is merely waiting-around to see if demand continues for a sold-out part before re-ordering, that ain't a "back order". Telling the customer that something is on "back-order" implies that the parts HAVE BEEN RE-ORDERED and that we are awaiting their IMMENENT ARRIVAL!!! The customer is expected to wait patiently for a part that the vendor KNOWS is never going to happen! DD
I disagree. Backorders just mean it's not in stock. Maybe one day it will be restocked, maybe it won't.

I don't get why people complain about Drake and what is in stock. If it's not in stock why not move on to another supplier. Why not find a used, original part and actually restore it?

If the grocery store were out of bread would you go home and post on any forum that the store is out of bread? Would you make it yourself? Or would you drive to the next store and buy it, only complaining to your spouse?
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Old 02-16-2020, 12:39 AM   #35
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Default Re: Drake Sale:

In this case, with 40 years experience in the wholesale.distribution business, I have to agree with "V8COOPMAN". Your first statement reflects a non-professional view of the situation.
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Old 02-16-2020, 01:35 AM   #36
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Default Re: Drake Sale:

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It is kinda funny that Drake has ALL the backorder problems. Every time, when it was on B/O, Carpenter had plenty and I can say he very seldom puts anything on B/O like Drake.
Sorry but he doesn't... Carpenter is out of stock with some of the same stuff I need. It could be that Drake supplies Carpenter or Carpenter supplies Drake but no matter, they're both out of stock.

Or should I say "backorder" since that's the term everyone is using.

I haven't had a "backorder" with either company since I started checking stock before I ordered...
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Old 02-16-2020, 09:50 AM   #37
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I disagree. Backorders just mean it's not in stock. Maybe one day it will be restocked, maybe it won't.

It's seemingly evident here that none of the English Comprehension classes that you may have been afforded as a child went very well. It's not difficult to understand that a "backorder" strongly implies (to a customer) that an out-of-stock item has been RE-ordered and will again be available in the foreseeable future. In the case we're speaking of, this has effectively become an egregious ploy to keep the customer on the hook while we re-evaluate whether or not it may be profitable to ACTUALLY ORDER another large batch of widgets. In the case of many of these items, a much-more fitting acknowledgement might be something like "out of stock pending further notice". DD
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Old 02-16-2020, 10:27 AM   #38
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Default Re: Drake Sale:

It's always been very simple to me. If something is on "back order" with no date when it will become available, I move on to another supplier or retailer. This is a hobby and why get upset when somebody doesn't have a product or it is on backorder. Remain calm and move on, it's better for your health(mental and physical).
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Old 02-16-2020, 11:07 AM   #39
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Default Re: Drake Sale:

The backorders is sometimes a money instrument to...lets say they need to make a minimum order of 100pcs to get an item made...with a backorder of 50 they have the order payed for....if you order ofshore there´s nothing like a 30-day credit...
Think the solidity of the companies has something to do with it to...
So perhaps we have to live with it in the future to get things made...
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Old 02-16-2020, 12:09 PM   #40
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Default Re: Drake Sale:

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It's always been very simple to me. If something is on "back order" with no date when it will become available, I move on to another supplier or retailer. This is a hobby and why get upset when somebody doesn't have a product or it is on backorder. Remain calm and move on, it's better for your health(mental and physical).

MY BEEF has nothing to do with whether or not a part is in stock with THIS supplier. If it is out of stock and HAS BEEN re-ordered, mark it as BACK ORDERED. If the part is out of stock and HAS NOT been re-ordered while this supplier sits on it for a while trying to decide whether or not a re-order might be profitable, mark the darned part as "OUT OF STOCK UNTIL FURTHER NOTICE"! Like I said earlier, it's not fair to the customers not accustomed to the methods of this supplier, and that take "BACK ORDERED" to mean literally that the replacement parts HAVE BEEN re-ordered and arrival is imminent! Is it really that hard to understand the difference? There's good reason why this guy has earned the infamous moniker of "Back Order Bob" over the years. DD
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