Go Back   The Ford Barn > General Discussion > Early V8 (1932-53)

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 08-31-2014, 05:53 AM   #81
BILL WZOREK
Senior Member
 
BILL WZOREK's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Florence Ma.
Posts: 2,404
Default Re: Tell me this noise isn't what I'm afraid it is.

Old Henry:

Let me tell you a story:

There was this major flood, the water was rising the emergency responder went door to door telling every one to leave, they got to this one house the fellow would not leave saying I have left my fate in GOD'S hands ,
He will save me.
The water continued to rise forcing this fellow to retreat to the 2nd floor, again the Emergency responders came this time in a canoe.
They told him Quick get in, He said "NO" I will leave my Fate in GOD'S hands. so the responders left. & the waters continued to rise forcing him to the Roof.
Again the emergency responders came this time in a helicopter this time they dropped down a rescue basket and told him to get in and they would take him to safety, again he said "NO" I will leave my Fate in GOD'S hands.
As the responders left they saw a large wave completely cover the house
sweeping the fellow away to his death,
He went to the pearly gates & he saw GOD, He asked GOD I have lead a good life always trying to do what was rite , always going to church, I put my life in your hands.
I don't understand WHY did you let me Die:::::
GOD responded YOU FOOL I SENT YOU HELP 3 TIMES

The MORAL here is >>>>>>>> HENRY TAKE UP ONE OF THE OFFERS they are all good & sincere ~~~
BILL WZOREK is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-31-2014, 07:12 AM   #82
moonshine runner
Senior Member
 
moonshine runner's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Webb City, Missouri
Posts: 349
Default Re: Tell me this noise isn't what I'm afraid it is.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kube View Post
Crate it up and send it to me. It WILL be done correctly the first time. Guaranteed.
Joke all ya want about my "trailer queens" but rest assured each and every one is built to run down the road better than new. That "pretty" goes way beyond what a guy can see.
Man, That is really nice of Mike (Kube), and KiWinUS to offer up that help Craig. Like I said in a recent post, I really appreciate my Ford Barn friends!!

Kevin
__________________
"Failure is simply the opportunity to begin again, this time more intelligently".

Henry Ford.
moonshine runner is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)
Old 08-31-2014, 08:37 AM   #83
Mike51Merc
Senior Member
 
Mike51Merc's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Northeast Pennsylvania
Posts: 1,565
Default Re: Tell me this noise isn't what I'm afraid it is.

Henry,
Journals are the bearing surfaces on the crank.
Drop the pan and wiggle each rod cap. The one(s) that wobble are the bad ones. Also look for blueing/blackening discoloration, indicating they're "cooked". If they're cooked, you'll be making new friends at the nearest machine shop, and possibly shopping for a new crank & rods.

Bearings are softer than the surfaces they "bear". They are sacrificial, meaning that they are supposed to wear out instead of the components they protect. Sometimes if you catch them early you can get away with just changing the bearings---- it's not the preferred solution, it's just to get by with some more miles.

There was a YouTube video showing the process, but I can't seem to find it for you.

If you continue to drive it, you could turn repairable parts into scrap metal.
Mike51Merc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-31-2014, 10:29 AM   #84
TomO
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 329
Default Re: Tell me this noise isn't what I'm afraid it is.

The no1 and no5 cylinders share a rod bearing, if you still have the original 29A rods with the floating bearings. The engine should be pulled in order to fit the new bearing to the rod and the journal.

I am pretty sure that you have the floating bearings, because you had to remove the wires on the two cylinders to quiet the knock.

I would not continue to run the engine, you may throw a rod and destroy the block.
__________________
TomO
TomO is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-31-2014, 07:45 PM   #85
Old Henry
Senior Member
 
Old Henry's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Orem, Utah
Posts: 5,607
Default Re: Tell me this noise isn't what I'm afraid it is.

I am truly overwhelmed by the sincere offers to help fix my engine. Now if I could just find that AWOL Scotty to beam my engine there.

I have sincerely considered the offers including checking on freight charges to ship my engine which would be from $2,000 to $3,000 round trip to and from those who've offered. At least for me, that's quite a bit to add to the repair bill just for transportation. Plus, I'd still have to remove the engine, "crate it up", which I have no idea how to do, then reinstall the engine when I get it back.

If that darn Scotty would just get back to his station for a "beaming" I'd do it in a minute. I may still, as a last resort, if this other angle I'm pursuing doesn't work out.

Thanks again for everyone's sincere concern and offers to help.

You guys are the greatest.
__________________
Prof. Henry (The Roaming Gnome)
"It is good to have an end to journey toward; but it is the journey that matters, in the end. *Ursula K. Le Guin in The Left Hand of Darkness
Old Henry is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-31-2014, 07:58 PM   #86
Marv
Senior Member
 
Marv's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 875
Default Re: Tell me this noise isn't what I'm afraid it is.

Henry you like to drive. so why don't you rent a truck and haul it yourself. The mechanic you have been using does not seem to be much help.
Marv is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-31-2014, 09:48 PM   #87
cmbrucew
Senior Member
 
cmbrucew's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: North of sandy ago, CA.
Posts: 1,775
Default Re: Tell me this noise isn't what I'm afraid it is.

Hi Prof.
Call H&H Flatheads
4451 Ramsdell Ave.
La Crescentia, CA.91214
Mike's number is 818 248 2371
Been doing first class work for many years.
Bruce
__________________
Works good
Lasts long time
cmbrucew is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-01-2014, 06:48 AM   #88
hotcoupe
Senior Member
 
hotcoupe's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: imperial,mo
Posts: 535
Default Re: Tell me this noise isn't what I'm afraid it is.

i cannot recommend H&H flatheads after my engine builder checked the work that they did to a "99" block that i purchased from H&H. lot of money, sloppy work.
tom
hotcoupe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-01-2014, 06:59 AM   #89
klicker
Senior Member
 
klicker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Oregon
Posts: 299
Default Re: Tell me this noise isn't what I'm afraid it is.

I had my coupe shipped 1200 miles in an enclosed trailer for $800. Where did you get the $2-3,000 shipping cost? There's gotta be cheaper ways. Anyway, best of luck!
klicker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-01-2014, 07:01 AM   #90
Kube
Senior Member
 
Kube's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Wisconsin, USA
Posts: 5,375
Default Re: Tell me this noise isn't what I'm afraid it is.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Old Henry View Post
I am truly overwhelmed by the sincere offers to help fix my engine. Now if I could just find that AWOL Scotty to beam my engine there.

I have sincerely considered the offers including checking on freight charges to ship my engine which would be from $2,000 to $3,000 round trip to and from those who've offered. At least for me, that's quite a bit to add to the repair bill just for transportation. Plus, I'd still have to remove the engine, "crate it up", which I have no idea how to do, then reinstall the engine when I get it back.

If that darn Scotty would just get back to his station for a "beaming" I'd do it in a minute. I may still, as a last resort, if this other angle I'm pursuing doesn't work out.

Thanks again for everyone's sincere concern and offers to help.

You guys are the greatest.
I've shipped engines all over the USA. Never has one exceeded $475. In fact, of all the cars I've shipped, none of those have exceeded $2000 (round trip).
Send me the entire car and while it's here we can sort out all the other ills.
If you like driving that car how currently is, you'll be like a pig in mud once it is repaired properly!
__________________
"Imagination is a crutch used by those who lack knowledge and intelligence ."
B
. Franklin
Kube is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-01-2014, 07:13 AM   #91
Cecil/WV
Senior Member
 
Cecil/WV's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Gerrardstown, WV
Posts: 2,166
Default Re: Tell me this noise isn't what I'm afraid it is.

Quote:
Originally Posted by klicker View Post
I had my coupe shipped 1200 miles in an enclosed trailer for $800. Where did you get the $2-3,000 shipping cost? There's gotta be cheaper ways. Anyway, best of luck!
I shipped the engine that we raffled off in Gettysburg from Martinsburg WV to Lockport, NY VIA Fastenal, the fastener folks, for $150.00. Cheapest shipping I know of. All I had to do was bolt it to a pallet and they wrapped it with shrink wrap.
Cecil/WV is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-01-2014, 09:56 AM   #92
wga
Senior Member
 
wga's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Land of Gracious Living
Posts: 660
Default Re: Tell me this noise isn't what I'm afraid it is.

Old Henry -- You've got the help you need - pull that motor now, get it on a crate,
ship via Fastenal (check their website for a local store) to one of the builders
here on the FB. And soon you and Mrs. H will be out on the road. While the motors
out, check your engine and trans mounts, brakes, wiring, etc. Get any issues there
squared away.

Hotcoupe - sorry to hear that things did not work out with H&H. I just spoke with Mike at a recent car show. They did a motor I used in a friends woodie. No issues, motor runs fine. (Brizio's shop uses them).
__________________
Henry Ford designed the flathead without the aid of a computer.
wga is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-01-2014, 11:14 AM   #93
waterboychuck
Senior Member
 
waterboychuck's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Nine Mile Falls,WA
Posts: 859
Default Re: Tell me this noise isn't what I'm afraid it is.

I had fastenal.com ship a belly mower for my 1949 Farmall Cub tractor from St Louis to Spokane,WA for $225. Another quote I got was $616. It pays to shop around.
http://www.fastenal.com/web/en/22/th...782!1580556340
__________________
The sign of a good craftsman is how well they cover up their mistakes.
waterboychuck is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-10-2014, 12:49 PM   #94
Old Henry
Senior Member
 
Old Henry's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Orem, Utah
Posts: 5,607
Default Re: Tell me this noise isn't what I'm afraid it is.

I struck out on all of my attempts to get my engine fixed in my state (my previous builder no longer responded to my emails nor phone messages) so I turned my attention away from Old Henry and got my favorite motorcycle running and insured again and was quite content with driving that with Pepe aboard for the foreseeable future. Then I realized that I was overdue for the monthly trip I take with my dad, who bought the car for $100 in 1959, and how much he enjoyed it and would miss it. So, I was just about to haul the car to Colorado for the cooch to fix it for me as he'd offered. Then, just as I was about to finalize that deal I had the thought to dig out my old Early Ford V8 Club roster and call some members in town to see if there wasn't someone local who did flathead engines. Sure enough, the first guy that answered my call knew just who and I delivered the car to him yesterday and he started to remove the engine today. Hope it works out OK. I expect that it will and I'll have Old Henry back on the road again soon if for nothing else than to take my dad on his monthly trip.

Checked in today and he had the engine out of the car and the oil pan and clutch off. Here's a picture of the oil pan showing the bad news indicators in there:



I just reached under the engine the was hanging on the hoist and grabbed the #1 piston connecting rod end and there was plenty of play in it so that's where I expect we're going to find the wear.

I was also curious about the condition of my flywheel and clutch that had been chattering since I turned the flywheel and replaced the clutch with one from Mac VanPelt just in April, 6,000 miles ago. As you can see, the flywheel is burned again.





And so is the pressure plate.



And the clutch disc is already worn down to the rivets in several places.



So, I'll have the flywheel turned again and am sending the clutch to Fort Wayne Clutch today for replacement. Hope that all of that gets rid of the clutch chatter once and for all. It has been so annoying.

When Paul (who's now working on my engine) gets it on a stand and turned over and the connecting rods removed I'll get some more pictures to share of the actual damage.

Of course, the big question will be, what caused the damage in just 50,000 miles and how to prevent it in the future.
__________________
Prof. Henry (The Roaming Gnome)
"It is good to have an end to journey toward; but it is the journey that matters, in the end. *Ursula K. Le Guin in The Left Hand of Darkness

Last edited by Old Henry; 09-10-2014 at 12:55 PM.
Old Henry is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-10-2014, 12:56 PM   #95
Ross F-1
Senior Member
 
Ross F-1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: NM
Posts: 2,209
Default Re: Tell me this noise isn't what I'm afraid it is.

Not much question what needs to be fixed there!

That looks to me to be burned oil on the clutch.
__________________
'52 F-1, EAB flathead
Ross F-1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-10-2014, 01:21 PM   #96
green50
Senior Member
 
green50's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: North Georgia
Posts: 392
Default Re: Tell me this noise isn't what I'm afraid it is.

I'm glad to see Old Henry is is in the process of getting repaired. I'm sure your dad will appreciate it more than anyone.
__________________
Gene
green50 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-10-2014, 01:25 PM   #97
JSeery
Senior Member
 
JSeery's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Wichita KS
Posts: 13,127
Default Re: Tell me this noise isn't what I'm afraid it is.

Also, I would think it was more of a pressure plate issue than a clutch plate issue for both chatter and slippage. But, if there is oil getting to the clutch it is going to slip.
JSeery is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-10-2014, 02:35 PM   #98
Fordors
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Orland Park,IL
Posts: 1,335
Default Re: Tell me this noise isn't what I'm afraid it is.

The heat checking on the pressure plate is localized between 6 and 9 o'clock and that leads me to believe that the finger at the 2 o'clock position in the photo was high. I agree that there was likely some oil contaminating that clutch assembly but even without that the clutch would chatter. Those fingers are forged and there is no way to adjust height so the machining had to be spot on, or the PP assembled, checked and disassembled and then subsequent machining or shimming to ensure a quality result for finger height. Fort Wayne might use those fingers again, but set it up right, or they may replace with adjustable levers.
Professor, the best thing you are doing here is using the services of a reputable, trusted automotive machinist to do this rebuild. I was glad to see you "took a pass" on the services of a guy who had volunteered to help. Maybe the cooch could have done the job but the guy you selected came with references. What do they say on the TV commercial? Pay me now or pay me later.
__________________
My school colors are black and blue, I attended the School of Hard Knocks where I received a Masters Degree in Chronic Mopery.
Fordors is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-10-2014, 03:09 PM   #99
Bolts
Senior Member
 
Bolts's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Prescott, AZ
Posts: 585
Default Re: Tell me this noise isn't what I'm afraid it is.

Craig, how big are the biggest chunks and are they steel or aluminum?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Old Henry View Post
I struck out on all of my attempts to get my engine fixed in my state (my previous builder no longer responded to my emails nor phone messages) so I turned my attention away from Old Henry and got my favorite motorcycle running and insured again and was quite content with driving that with Pepe aboard for the foreseeable future. Then I realized that I was overdue for the monthly trip I take with my dad, who bought the car for $100 in 1959, and how much he enjoyed it and would miss it. So, I was just about to haul the car to Colorado for the cooch to fix it for me as he'd offered. Then, just as I was about to finalize that deal I had the thought to dig out my old Early Ford V8 Club roster and call some members in town to see if there wasn't someone local who did flathead engines. Sure enough, the first guy that answered my call knew just who and I delivered the car to him yesterday and he started to remove the engine today. Hope it works out OK. I expect that it will and I'll have Old Henry back on the road again soon if for nothing else than to take my dad on his monthly trip.

Checked in today and he had the engine out of the car and the oil pan and clutch off. Here's a picture of the oil pan showing the bad news indicators in there:



I just reached under the engine the was hanging on the hoist and grabbed the #1 piston connecting rod end and there was plenty of play in it so that's where I expect we're going to find the wear.

I was also curious about the condition of my flywheel and clutch that had been chattering since I turned the flywheel and replaced the clutch with one from Mac VanPelt just in April, 6,000 miles ago. As you can see, the flywheel is burned again.





And so is the pressure plate.



And the clutch disc is already worn down to the rivets in several places.



So, I'll have the flywheel turned again and am sending the clutch to Fort Wayne Clutch today for replacement. Hope that all of that gets rid of the clutch chatter once and for all. It has been so annoying.

When Paul (who's now working on my engine) gets it on a stand and turned over and the connecting rods removed I'll get some more pictures to share of the actual damage.

Of course, the big question will be, what caused the damage in just 50,000 miles and how to prevent it in the future.
__________________
Nothing wrong with it except for the name on the front.
Alex
Bolts is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-10-2014, 03:22 PM   #100
JM 35 Sedan
Senior Member
 
JM 35 Sedan's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Near Rising Sun, Maryland
Posts: 9,779
Default Re: Tell me this noise isn't what I'm afraid it is.

I would suggest getting an original 9" or 10" (whichever size that setup takes) core pressure plate and clutch disk to send to Fort Wayne for rebuild rather than use the assembly shown here that just came out of the car for the core. Depending on the manufacturers origin of the C&PP shown, Fort Wayne may refuse to rebuilt that core anyway.

Here is a 9" C&PP assembly that i recently had done by Fort Wayne. The quality of their rebuilds is awesome and MADE IN THE USA!
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 20140809_202619.jpg (64.8 KB, 30 views)
File Type: jpg 20140809_202553.jpg (64.6 KB, 27 views)
File Type: jpg 20140809_202519.jpg (69.7 KB, 27 views)
File Type: jpg 20140809_202503.jpg (74.2 KB, 27 views)
__________________
John

"Never give up on what you really want to do. The person with big dreams is more powerful than one with all the facts". Albert Einstein

Last edited by JM 35 Sedan; 09-10-2014 at 03:38 PM.
JM 35 Sedan is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:33 PM.