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Old 08-27-2014, 03:19 PM   #121
Bruce in southern OH
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Default Re: Yes, they are still out there NUMBER 2

I got that bolt tight Bill, I have heard of having a screw loose before!

VIC, I plan on having the electric pump as primary fuel delivery to carb. Going to by-pass the mechanical pump, I thought the fitting from pump to carb was leaking on old fuel pump, found that the diaphragm/gasket between half's of fuel pump is weeping gas. (screws are tight) Ordered a new firewall flex line and will have to connect flex line to line that used to go to carb. This will work until I have time to build a pass thru system.
Also went to O'Reilly's today and purchased a mechanical water temp gauge, I will install in the drivers side head radiator hose neck, it has a place to install a bulb. I would like to install one on the passenger side also but the hose neck does not have the fitting opening. ( anyone have a extra neck with fitting opening?) That way I could check the engine temp on both sides when I get to drive. Looks like an original electric water temp sending unit on the radiator, I am not using existing wiring until I get a chance to repair wiring.
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Old 08-27-2014, 04:12 PM   #122
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Default Re: Yes, they are still out there NUMBER 2

Bruce, In '39 (most, if not all production LZ's) the temp sending unit was located in the radiator upper tank. not in the left (drivers side) head. As I understand it, they moved the sending unit to the head in '40. My '39 has a '40 V-12 in it, and the radiator has a plug where the original sending unit was located. Are the heads on your car cast iron or aluminum? If they are cast iron, they were retrofit. Its possible that your car was retrofit with '40 heads. Only the drivers side head was equipped to accommodate the single sending unit. The temp sending unit in the head is much better in my opinion.
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Old 08-30-2014, 08:26 PM   #123
Bruce in southern OH
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Vic, first yes to all the above information, I have original aluminum heads, 40 heads on car now. NOW for my QUESTION EVERYONE!!! I removed the rear end from the 39 LZ today, I thought I read that the transmission could be taken out from inside car??? I removed front seat, the question is, do I have to disconnect exhaust and radiator lower hoses, looks like the only way to remove transmission is to jack up rear of motor 4 inches at least to clear cross member, let me know your thoughts.
Things I have tried to do this week, slow cranking motor, took starter off and had cleaned, new cable to solenoid, still not right!
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Removed interior front seat and all part that connect to rear end and torque tube. Still have not got shock links off, mystery to me?
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Removed the rear end, thought I would finish job easily this evening by pulling transmission and finding out why the clutch is stuck, but can not get transmission out like the little early V8's or model A!!!!
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Last edited by Bruce in southern OH; 08-31-2014 at 07:53 PM. Reason: Photo edit
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Old 08-31-2014, 08:08 PM   #124
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Default Re: Yes, they are still out there NUMBER 2

Found one reason that the transmission was low in car, I could not get the universal covers off with out lifting engine up so transmission would raise. Today I took rear transmission support off, it came off in two pieces, the top was broke in half,( metal ring with rubber cover ) has been this way for a long time, it let the transmission/universal cover rest on the cross member. I was hoping that it affected the clutch linkage/stuck clutch problem but does not. Looking for replacement rear transmission support, have located one transmission support from man in California, appreciate his help and information. NOW for the question today, told today that I could unscrew cap around the shift lever and would let me remove shifter without having to take side off transmission. I believe him but is this cap under spring pressure on just a lift off/out, how hard to replace lever in correct position. thanks everyone
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Old 08-31-2014, 10:11 PM   #125
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Default Re: Yes, they are still out there NUMBER 2

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruce in southern OH View Post
Found one reason that the transmission was low in car, I could not get the universal covers off with out lifting engine up so transmission would raise. Today I took rear transmission support off, it came off in two pieces, the top was broke in half,( metal ring with rubber cover ) has been this way for a long time, it let the transmission/universal cover rest on the cross member. I was hoping that it affected the clutch linkage/stuck clutch problem but does not. Looking for replacement rear transmission support, have located one transmission support from man in California, appreciate his help and information. NOW for the question today, told today that I could unscrew cap around the shift lever and would let me remove shifter without having to take side off transmission. I believe him but is this cap under spring pressure on just a lift off/out, how hard to replace lever in correct position. thanks everyone
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Hey Bruce, The shifter is really easy to remove on your Zephyr.No need to unscrew the cap. Look at the base of the shifter and just above where it meets the transmission you will see it has a pin through it. Remove the cotter pin and drive the pin out and the shift lever will pull up. Its just sitting over a stub shaft. Steele Rubber Products can rebuild your rear mount. Got mine from Alan Whelihan,but no matter where you get one chances are that Steele rebuilt it. They are a little pricey if you havent already found that out.

Last edited by Ken/Alabama; 08-31-2014 at 10:16 PM.
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Old 09-01-2014, 07:06 AM   #126
Bruce in southern OH
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Default Re: Yes, they are still out there NUMBER 2

Thanks Ken, as soon as I read I went to garage and removed pin (no cotter pin, missing ) that was GREAT!! Will get a couple of extra hands later today and Finally Remove Transmission, have it down to bare bones now. Thanks again, need info again pf where to purchase a Lincoln Service Book. (have a V8/V12 Service Bulletins Book and old Chilton's book, not enough detail )
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This morning at about 7:30 AM EST,
Before pin removal
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After removal, took about 30 seconds
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Old 09-01-2014, 09:33 AM   #127
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Here is the answer at 10:00AM, removed transmission at 9:30AM, with the transmission removed worked my way around the pressure plate loosening the 6 bolts, had to rotate engine to get on all the bolts. Got the 6 bolts removed and the pressure plate still stayed in place. With a screw driver underneath so pressure plate would not fall quickly I pried on plate with a small pry bar. It came loose and we removed, it was stuck enough to support all its weight. Material off of clutch disc on pressure plate face. Now to remove the clutch disc from fly wheel, we worked around the disc with straight blade screw driver to get where I could get behind disc a little to pull off. I came off leaving material on fly wheel and removing material from disc. I guess if you leave 500lbs. of pressure on the disc for 32 plus years this is what you get, I still think they had a problem before I got car because floor pans were removed!!!
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pressure plate
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disc removed
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material left on fly wheel, will take a DA sander and remove
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Disc?????
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Old 09-01-2014, 04:32 PM   #128
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Default Re: Yes, they are still out there NUMBER 2

We've done a few of those 39 LZ trannies. Lots of confusing parts in the shifter housing. While you have everything out, take the time to drain the trans oil and pop the cover off the side. Put the trans in neutral as always before removing the cover. Look for any obvious broken gear teeth, loose/worn synchro rings, etc. if things look dry, crusty, rusty or worse in there, consider going thru the trans. If that isn't your cup of tea, just bring it down to Cincy and we can go thru it for you.
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Old 09-02-2014, 06:36 AM   #129
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Default Re: Yes, they are still out there NUMBER 2

I see the clutch plate is a slightly different size than the pressure plate. You may want to replace with rebuild so they match size.
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Old 09-02-2014, 12:56 PM   #130
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Default Re: Yes, they are still out there NUMBER 2

That thing about clutch size matching doesn't ring true for me, I can't see a problem. If the disc was overhanging the pressure plate, then I would be worried.

I'd clean up the parts and put them back in. (But you all probably knew that).

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Old 09-02-2014, 02:24 PM   #131
Bruce in southern OH
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Mac/Terry/Mart, everyone. Don P. and I opened the side of transmission today and found everything very tight, clean and working well. Mac the rear gear on main shaft was the only one with wear on front edge. We thought that might be low?
Terry the disc is found only in one size material width, outside diameter on both are 10"
Mart, Don and I cleaned up the pressure plate with a DA sander. I borrowed his electric DA sander and cleaned up the flywheel, then wiped off the flywheel with brake cleaner, looks fine now. Will be using all the old parts EXCEPT I need a new 10" X 10 spline 1 3/8" clutch Disc, thicker the better.
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Transmission photos for Mac's review?
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transmission synchronizers
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Transmission gears
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Clutch pressure plate cleaned up and we adjusted fingers to a uniform height.
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Flywheel cleaned up
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Old 09-02-2014, 04:09 PM   #132
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Default Re: Yes, they are still out there NUMBER 2

Lookin' good Bruce, you're startin' to have some fun now...
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Old 09-02-2014, 06:09 PM   #133
Bruce in southern OH
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Default Re: Yes, they are still out there NUMBER 2

Vic, this car is becoming the DEVIL car, I think if I get it running and road worthy I will wait for a cold day in November and hit I-64W to I-75S and see how far south it will roll!!!! If you have a good 10" clutch disc laying around let me know(smile). Going to start cleaning up the rearend/torque tube and find out more about the Columbia while it is out. Waiting on gas tank and fill tube to return, yes I am starting to have FUND. (fun)
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Old 09-02-2014, 06:14 PM   #134
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Default Re: Yes, they are still out there NUMBER 2

Bruce....looking at the pic of the open gearset, it appears that the rear-most bronze synchro ring is pretty much close up against second gear. See how there is a gap between the little teeth of the bronze ring where it meets the synchro teeth of the main drive gear. Should be about .050" (about the thickness of a dime visually). When you compare that ring to the one on 2nd gear, you can barely see any gap. The result will be that the ring does not grip the taper on 2nd gear......resulting in a gear "clash" when you shift into second gear. It might work ok on a slow shift.

The question is......do you repair it now while the trans is out, or put if back together and hope it shifts ok when driving it? If you did nothing else I'd recommend replacing the two synchro rings and the various snap rings and thrust washers to freshen it up while it's out and easily accessible.
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Old 09-02-2014, 07:20 PM   #135
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Default Re: Yes, they are still out there NUMBER 2

Bruce, Mac makes a good point, and he may even have a good clutch disk. He has the other transmission parts for the '39 LZ... Ask me how I know...
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Old 09-04-2014, 03:10 PM   #136
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I still have not gotten the passenger side rear hub loose, have taken and placed tires back on the rear end and placed hub puller on axle under load. Pulled the rear end around with the side by side. Pulled in yard, around side of hill, on bumpy road, have shaken tires side to side with two people, spun tire and hit tire with hammer and still not moved. Removed puller and pulled it also, just parked the rear end at garage and put hub puller back on and tightened up, maybe temp change at night will help. Anyone have any more ideas so I do not ruin threads on axle????
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pulling up driveway with side by side
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Return to garage
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Old 09-05-2014, 06:31 PM   #137
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Picked up the 39 LZ gas tank and fill tube today from radiator shop. They did an excellent job. Man that owns shop said that he really wish he could see in the two hidden areas of tank to see how well the coating did because of the extent of rust. (said one of the worst tanks he had done due to amount of rust) I told him if he wanted I could cut two holes in the two parts of tank that did not have line of sight. Took tank to garage, filled with WATER and cut two holes, one in the top end opposite from fill tube and one in the middle rear behind baffle and sending unit. Used my 2 3/8" conduit hole saw, both slugs removed were coated heavily with the red coating material. We both inspected the interior and found that if not entirely clean and coated, that if particles of rust were still present that they were heavily coated and held in place with the red material. Fill tube was as good as new. Will take tank to Don P. on Monday and install two covers with gaskets and screws to close holes.
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Gas tank after installation of two holes for inspection, black lines are the interior baffles
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Picture of tank and two slugs removed from tank, both slugs were coated, you can click on photo to enlarge photo to view slugs closer.
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Fill tube coating was also done nicely
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Old 09-05-2014, 07:52 PM   #138
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Default Re: Yes, they are still out there NUMBER 2

Bruce,

Iv'e had luck with stuck hubs putting the puller on, pulling it good and tight, then licking around the axle/hub tapered tapered portion with a torch. Put some heat around it, let it cool, repeat a few times and between heatings, pull that puller up tight. During one of these cycles, it will come loose. On one Lincoln, I had the puller on for two days, tight. I used heat carefully off and on one day, and did nothing but leave the puller tight on it overnight and through the second day. Didn't touch it the second day, and lunch time I was in another room, heard a BANG, and the stuck hub gave up and had released its grip on the axle.

Good luck,

Steve
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Old 09-05-2014, 07:52 PM   #139
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Default Re: Yes, they are still out there NUMBER 2

Remove puller on axle, heat the drum taper to maybe 500 to 600 dregs F, reinstall puller and tighten it up and hit the end of the screw on the puller with a BFH - May take multiple hits with BFH. I have seen heat do wonders. Hope this helps.
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Old 09-05-2014, 08:17 PM   #140
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Default Re: Yes, they are still out there NUMBER 2

Highboy34 and Bill OH, just what I am now doing, heated twice today, think I will look for a rose bud to get more heat quicker, using a cutting tip. I have been lightly taping on the screw of puller, did not what to damage axle. You cannot install a nut on axle and install the puller also, no room. Bill will heat a couple more times and hope for the best, need off very bad, brake work that I could get done, pack bearing, rebuild wheel cylinder, etc. thanks to both of you, BJ
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